Ten Commandments Disallowed in Courthouses

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David_Paul:
Americans could put anything they wanted on courthouse walls, in the lobby, on the lawn outside, on the roof, in the bathrooms without an unelected Federal judge to force them to take it down. My parents could. My great-grandparents could. My ancestors going back to 1812–the first we know of anyone being here–could.
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Did their ability to do it make it right?

If you are a “strict Constitutionalist,” you shouldn’t complain about federal judges not being elected. It’s Article 3 of the Constitution.
 
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David_Paul:
The issues are not:

If the commandments are an “endorsement” of religion (whatever that means, the term is extra-constitutional)

What version of the commandments to use.

If America was founded on Christian principles.

There is only one issue: the free exercise of religion.

Until the ACLU and other liberal groups shopped around to find activist Federal judges, Americans could put anything they wanted on courthouse walls, in the lobby, on the lawn outside, on the roof, in the bathrooms without an unelected Federal judge to force them to take it down. My parents could. My great-grandparents could. My ancestors going back to 1812–the first we know of anyone being here–could.

Until secular humanists, marxists, liberals and others hostile to faith started suing, no-one noticed what my ancestors had done (or may have done, I don’t know) was unconstitutional.
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That is the issue. The other issues are in support of that issue. Christianity as a religion provides for free exercise of other religions without retribution or punishment.
 
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Richardols:
Did their ability to do it make it right?

If you are a “strict Constitutionalist,” you shouldn’t complain about federal judges not being elected. It’s Article 3 of the Constitution.
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It certainly didn’t make it wrong. Look at what the Fathers did in post #29. Was all they did, said, and promoted wrong?
 
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Brad:
Look at what the Fathers did in post #29. Was all they did, said, and promoted wrong?
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That God and even Christianity was important to the founding fathers and that they respected and followed the Bible is not the same as saying that they founded the U.S. on the basis of the Scriptures. Religious men produced a secular document, the Constitution.
 
I consider all this pressing for “displays” of religion to be a sign of weakness of faith. God is everywhere and this desperate need for physical reminders is just pathetic.

Now we’ll have to hear all the rantings about how they are being persecuted. I know that these Christians are “related” to Catholics and we share our belief that Jesus rose for our sins, but sometimes it’s really hard to acknowledge the relationship.

I was watching some show about Judge Moore’s Ten Commandments monument on tour. They had it in the back of a pickup truck in a Walmart parking lot and people were on their knees in prayer and singing. I’m thankful to be a Catholic.
 
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Richardols:
That God and even Christianity was important to the founding fathers and that they respected and followed the Bible is not the same as saying that they founded the U.S. on the basis of the Scriptures. Religious men produced a secular document, the Constitution.
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And these religious men used their influence and power to propagate Christianity through speeches, Bible distribution, court rulings etc. At what point do you think they thought any religious expression by government employees or in government buildings shouldn’t occur? Did they not follow the Constitution that they themselves derived?
 
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Thekla:
I consider all this pressing for “displays” of religion to be a sign of weakness of faith. God is everywhere and this desperate need for physical reminders is just pathetic.

Now we’ll have to hear all the rantings about how they are being persecuted. I know that these Christians are “related” to Catholics and we share our belief that Jesus rose for our sins, but sometimes it’s really hard to acknowledge the relationship.

I was watching some show about Judge Moore’s Ten Commandments monument on tour. They had it in the back of a pickup truck in a Walmart parking lot and people were on their knees in prayer and singing. I’m thankful to be a Catholic.
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What is pathetic is:
  1. Your spinning of the situation from “eliminating religious displays” to “pressing for displays of religion”.
  2. Your willingness to accept anti-Christian propaganda in public schools but unwillingness to accept a simple 10 Commandments display at a courthouse.
  3. Your disdain for Jesus loving Protestants that want this country to reflect their values.
  4. Your misunderstanding of history and how countries fail miserably that do not acknowledge God as the basis of their law.
 
Brad said:
3) Your disdain for Jesus loving Protestants that want this country to reflect their values.
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Are you speaking of Fundamentalists? “Jesus-loving”? Sure, not Catholic-loving, though. And, you’ve given a good reason for me to always oppose their trying to impose their brand of “Christianity” on America. I don’t want this country to reflect the narrow, bigoted, prejudiced values of Fundamentalists. Catholics have had more than enough grief from those people.
 
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Brad:
Did they not follow the Constitution that they themselves derived?
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Yes, they did, and those founding fathers did not try to impose any religion they followed on this country.
 
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Brad:
What is pathetic is:
  1. Your spinning of the situation from “eliminating religious displays” to “pressing for displays of religion”.
  2. Your willingness to accept anti-Christian propaganda in public schools but unwillingness to accept a simple 10 Commandments display at a courthouse.
  3. Your disdain for Jesus loving Protestants that want this country to reflect their values.
  4. Your misunderstanding of history and how countries fail miserably that do not acknowledge God as the basis of their law.
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I don’t agree with your other contentions, but I do agree that I am really turned off by weakness of faith and hostile religiosity. I’m not sure when it started; I know that I was unaware of it while growing up.

I first became aware of “christians” when I went to college and a girl from my Catholic high school approached me and asked if I had been “born again.” I barely knew what she was talking about. Anyways. she informed me that I was going to hell if I was not “born again.” I was shocked because she just tossed Catholicism out in favor of this judgmental “faith.”

I think I do have a fair amount of disdain for what I see as weak-willed, whiney christians.
 
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Richardols:
Are you speaking of Fundamentalists? “Jesus-loving”? Sure, not Catholic-loving, though. And, you’ve given a good reason for me to always oppose their trying to impose their brand of “Christianity” on America. I don’t want this country to reflect the narrow, bigoted, prejudiced values of Fundamentalists. Catholics have had more than enough grief from those people.
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Ad hominems here?
 
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Lizzie:
Baptists, etc make much better neighbors than secular New Yorkers.
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Which Baptists? SBC, ABC, Free-Will, or which other? And where? In NYC, California, Georgia?

BTW, Baptists can be fine, as you note. It’s Fundamentalists that I have no use for.
 
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StratusRose:
Wasn’t surprised.
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Me either. I wish I was. Our fascist courts don’t make many good decisions, they just substitute their will, throw in the word “unconstitutional” (regardless of whether or not the constitution says anything about the issue, or even the opposite of what they believe), and shazaam–judicial tyranny.
 
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Richardols:
Which Baptists? SBC, ABC, Free-Will, or which other? And where? In NYC, California, Georgia?

BTW, Baptists can be fine, as you note. It’s Fundamentalists that I have no use for.
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Fundamentalists make gracious and reliable neighbors.

BTW are you some sort of troll? Items that you post take positions that deny the Christian basis of this country
 
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Richardols:
If you are a “strict Constitutionalist,” you shouldn’t complain about federal judges not being elected. It’s Article 3 of the Constitution.
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Don’t try to mislead people as to what I said in the hopes no one will scroll back.

Obviously I was reenforcing a point. And making an additional subtle point–the party which calls itself Democratic and speaks of a lack of “democracy” all the time relies on unelected Federal judges to create laws from the bench the party cannot get passed in Congress.

I call them unelected judges all the time. Do you know anyone who speaks with any knowledge of the Federal courts, and believes Federal judges are elected? I don’t. They don’t exist.

Why not stop playing games like this?

Oh heck, I know why you can’t stop. You had no refutation of any of the points I made in my reply.

Just makes a thread unreadable and filled with pointless replies (such as mine right here to you) when you do this stuff.
 
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Lizzie:
Fundamentalists make gracious and reliable neighbors.
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Until you invite them over for a beer and they accuse you of being an alcoholic.
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Lizzie:
BTW are you some sort of troll?
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Trolls don’t get over 2000 posts under their belt.
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Lizzie:
Items that you post take positions that deny the Christian basis of this country
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This country is not based on Christianity. Christianity was a guide, but so was English common law, French gov’t & law, and Iroquis gov’t & law.
 
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wabrams:
This country is not based on Christianity. Christianity was a guide, but so was English common law, French gov’t & law, and Iroquis gov’t & law.
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English common law was established by Catholics in the Middle Ages and was based on customs…the way Catholics settled their lay questions.
 
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wabrams:
This country is not based on Christianity. Christianity was a guide, but so was English common law, French gov’t & law, and Iroquis gov’t & law.
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Not Iroquois. The myth that the Founders studied the Iroquois Nations for inspiration about the American form of government is just that: a myth. It never happened.

The thesis was advanced by a few historians who got a bit carried away noting superficial similarities and minor meetings combined with a whole bunch of unsupportable speculation about the Founders “real motives.” Basically, the entire thesis was a giant post hoc error that was seized upon by the media and then took on a life of its own.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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