Terrorism Is Alien to Islam

[cestusdei]

pro, well you will note that I posted some of the things you left out. Did you notice how Hamas targets the Rotarians and Lions clubs? As a Rotarian I must now live in fear and cover up my lapel pin. It shows how utterly insane the terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbullah are. If you support them then yes you do support terrorism. That was my original point.

While it is nice that you think crucifying the boy was wrong take it a further step. If the religion of peace can do this and not feel ashamed then what kind of religion is it? As I pointed out the Serbs hate the Muslims for the centuries of such oppression they endured. Having your kids taken to become janisariees or in lieu of taxes you can’t pay does things to you after awhile. Also notice that it was we Christians who helped the Muslims. What thanks did we get? None. You think Muslims will flock to help Christians in need? Yeah when pigs fly.

There are issues here with your new religion. For example SLAVERY. You didn’t touch that. Persecution, which you have consistantly denied exists. Torture for worse then Abu Gharib or Gitmo. Whatever problems we have in Catholicism, we don’t nail people up or enslave them. Muslims don’t see the problem here since Muhammed did it then it must be okay. Your head is in the sand and I am forcing you to look at the religion of peace as it is. So don’t just blow off the boys slavery and crucifixion as “tragic”. That is insulting. It is more then tragic. It is utterly vile, demonic, and devoid of humanity. When I see you get incensed at it then I will know that you get it. So answer my question: why is it okay for Muslims to do this kind of thing?

 

[pro_universal]

pro, well you will that I posted some of the things you left out. Did you notice how Hamas targets the Rotarians and Lions clubs? As a Rotarian I must now live in fear and cover up my lapel pin. It shows how utterly insane the terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbullah are. If you support them then yes you do support terrorism. That was my original point.

What does that have to do with anything? They are suspicious of western organizations. You and others constantly accuse Muslim charities of being involved in terrorism. It is just as ridiculous when you do it as when Hamas does it.

While it is nice that you think crucifying the boy was wrong take it a further step. If the religion of peace can do this and not feel ashamed then what kind of religion is it?

Again, every single Muslim who comes to this board condemns terrorist violence as unislamic. Does someone violating the teachings of Jesus make you ashamed? Why would violating the laws of Islam make a Muslim ashamed?

As I pointed out the Serbs hate the Muslims for the centuries of such oppression they endured. Having your kids taken to become janisariees or in lieu of taxes you can’t pay does things to you after awhile.

You did not answer the question. Answer the question: Did the Serbian massacre prove something about Christianity? If not, why not?

Also notice that it was we Christians who helped the Muslims. What thanks did we get? None. You think Muslims will flock to help Christians in need? Yeah when pigs fly.

You have got to be kidding. Bosnia is only remembered as a success because Rwanda happened around the same time. Christians did not rush to defend Muslims; they waited until the killing was over, and then dropped some bombs (Reigniting the killing, btw), and then sent troops after the killing was done again.

There are issues here with your new religion.

It is not my new religion. If you call me a liar again, I will ignore you. I do not have any more time for name-calling.

For example SLAVERY. You didn’t touch that.

Oh yeah, this has never been a problem with Christianity. Like in Apartheid south africa…guess the dutch reformed Church isn’t Christian. And I guess the Eastern European sex trade must not have any Christians involved. And Russia…no Christians there.

Persecution, which you have consistantly denied exists.

Please quote one such denial.

Torture for worse then Abu Gharib or Gitmo. Whatever problems we have in Catholicism, we don’t nail people up or enslave them.

So what exaclty was going on in Bosnia? Were those pretend massacres and torture scenes? All a hoax?

Muslims don’t see the problem here since Muhammed did it then it must be okay. Your head is in the sand and I am forcing you to look at the religion of peace as it is. So don’t just blow off the boys slavery and crucifixion as “tragic”. It is more then tragic. It is utterly vile, demonic, and devoid of humanity. When I see you get incensed at it then I will know that you get it.

What is utterly vile is your blindness. Every single Muslim on the board condemns inhuman behavior. Every single Muslim organization on the planet condemns terrorism. Yet you continue to repeat the false claim that “muslims think this is all okay.”

Basically, your whole post is based on lies and exaggerations, and on top of that…you clearly dodged my question.

If it’s so tough to answer, admit it, but don’t make excuses for genocide like “500 years ago their kids were taken!” That’s just plain demeaning and cruel to the hundreds of thousands who were raped by Christians during that war.

It’s funny really…you accuse Muslims of not condemning terrorism, but when someone gives you a clear cut example of Christians killing and torturing Muslims, what do you do? You make excuses, and don’t condemn it. The hypocrisy of the “righteous” knows no bounds.

 

[tequilamac]

What does that have to do with anything? They are suspicious of western organizations. You and others constantly accuse Muslim charities of being involved in terrorism. It is just as ridiculous when you do it as when Hamas does it.

Again, every single Muslim who comes to this board condemns terrorist violence as unislamic. Does someone violating the teachings of Jesus make you ashamed? Why would violating the laws of Islam make a Muslim ashamed?

You did not answer the question. Answer the question: Did the Serbian massacre prove something about Christianity? If not, why not?

You have got to be kidding. Bosnia is only remembered as a success because Rwanda happened around the same time. Christians did not rush to defend Muslims; they waited until the killing was over, and then dropped some bombs (Reigniting the killing, btw), and then sent troops after the killing was done again.

It is not my new religion. If you call me a liar again, I will ignore you. I do not have any more time for name-calling.

Oh yeah, this has never been a problem with Christianity. Like in Apartheid south africa…guess the dutch reformed Church isn’t Christian. And I guess the Eastern European sex trade must not have any Christians involved. And Russia…no Christians there.

Please quote one such denial.

So what exaclty was going on in Bosnia? Were those pretend massacres and torture scenes? All a hoax?

What is utterly vile is your blindness. Every single Muslim on the board condemns inhuman behavior. Every single Muslim organization on the planet condemns terrorism. Yet you continue to repeat the false claim that “muslims think this is all okay.”

Basically, your whole post is based on lies and exaggerations, and on top of that…you clearly dodged my question.

If it’s so tough to answer, admit it, but don’t make excuses for genocide like “500 years ago their kids were taken!” That’s just plain demeaning and cruel to the hundreds of thousands who were raped by Christians during that war.

It’s funny really…you accuse Muslims of not condemning terrorism, but when someone gives you a clear cut example of Christians killing and torturing Muslims, what do you do? You make excuses, and don’t condemn it. The hypocrisy of the “righteous” knows no bounds.

Let me see if I understand this pro. You have left the Catholic Church, but not adopted Islam although you are it’s most fervent supporter because the Dutch Reformed Church during apartheid did blah blah blah and the Russian Orthodox did blah blah blah and the Eastern European did blah blah blah etc etc. And yet you choose to attack Catholics on this board for not discriminating between ordinary Muslims and terrorist groups. In other threads you have even denied that there is defference in theology or bible interpretation between the Catholic Church and other Christian religions. So here are a couple of things:
1.Anyone who is now or has ever been Catholic knows the Church teachings are somewhat different from other Christian groups which is why we are in schism with all of the groups you have cited. If you do nt know the meaning of schism, you can look it up.
2. If you do not want Islam painted with the same big brush strokes you claim people here are painting with, stop doing it with Catholicism. The Dutch Reformed group in Africa had nothing to do with us, just as what the Russian Orthodox do has nothing to do with us.
It is often difficult to tell the difference between an apostate Catholic and Jack Chick. This is an example. In fact, there have been those who claim that Jack Chick’s illustrator was a Jewuit priest who left the Church. Usually the apostate Catholic or the “never having been a catholic int he first place but love to hate catholic” people hold catholicism responsible for Lutheran bad behavior, Methodist behavior, Calvinist bad behavior, Orthodox behavior, etc. Which is exactly what you have done in all of your threads on Islam. Which would indicate of course that your problem is not with a conflict in society between Islam and Christianity- you simply hate the Catholic Church. And if that is the case, you will turn a blind eye to any statement by a Catholic on Islam that reflects favorably on Catholicism or even smacks of being less than PC about Islam. So what is the point of arguing with you? You start these threads simply to smack the Church. You could really care less about Islam or the Muslims. Your motives are terribly suspicious.

 

[pro_universal]

Let me see if I understand this pro. You have left the Catholic Church, but not adopted Islam

That part is simple.

although you are it’s most fervent supporter because the Dutch Reformed Church during apartheid did blah blah blah and the Russian Orthodox did blah blah blah and the Eastern European did blah blah blah etc etc.

Sure, write off slavery and torture and murder in Christian lands as “blah blah blah.” All meaningless to you. Only violence in Muslim places is violence.

And yet you choose to attack Catholics on this board for not discriminating between ordinary Muslims and terrorist groups. In other threads you have even denied that there is defference in theology or bible interpretation between the Catholic Church and other Christian religions.

Uh, no, I haven’t.

So here are a couple of things:
1.Anyone who is now or has ever been Catholic knows the Church teachings are somewhat different from other Christian groups which is why we are in schism with all of the groups you have cited. If you do nt know the meaning of schism, you can look it up.

What on earth does this have to do with this topic, or any comment I’ve made?

Muslims don’t have one single group either. If you mean to compare this as a way of absolving Christianity of guilt for religious violence, the claim has no merit.

1. If you do not want Islam painted with the same big brush strokes you claim people here are painting with, stop doing it with Catholicism. The Dutch Reformed group in Africa had nothing to do with us, just as what the Russian Orthodox do has nothing to do with us.

That was the point. I pointed to Christian violence as a way of showing you how ridiculous it is to identify violence as “muslim” without considering anything else, and then to blame all Muslims for it.

This is a deal. You stop painting Islam with a broad brush, and my examples of Christian crimes won’t be relevant.

Just one question: How many of these threads have I started?

 

[thistle]

That part is simple.

Sure, write off slavery and torture and murder in Christian lands as “blah blah blah.” All meaningless to you. Only violence in Muslim places is violence.

Uh, no, I haven’t.

What on earth does this have to do with this topic, or any comment I’ve made?

Muslims don’t have one single group either. If you mean to compare this as a way of absolving Christianity of guilt for religious violence, the claim has no merit.

That was the point. I pointed to Christian violence as a way of showing you how ridiculous it is to identify violence as “muslim” without considering anything else, and then to blame all Muslims for it.

This is a deal. You stop painting Islam with a broad brush, and my examples of Christian crimes won’t be relevant.

Just one question: How many of these threads have I started?

82% of known terrorist groups in the world are Muslim. How does that relate to the thread title?
Islam means submission and consequently conversion by coercion. The mission of Jihaddists is to make everyone on earth convert to Islam by all means, including force. None of that is surprising since the founder of Islam himself was a killer.
The so-called silent majority of muslims against this in my opnion does not exist. Either they are silent because they actually agree with the violence or they are silent because they are scared of being killed by their own fanatics if they say anything. Either way they lend support to the murdering jihad butchers of innocents which makes them just as guilty.

 

[tequilamac]

That part is simple.

Sure, write off slavery and torture and murder in Christian lands as “blah blah blah.” All meaningless to you. Only violence in Muslim places is violence.

Uh, no, I haven’t.

What on earth does this have to do with this topic, or any comment I’ve made?

Muslims don’t have one single group either. If you mean to compare this as a way of absolving Christianity of guilt for religious violence, the claim has no merit.

That was the point. I pointed to Christian violence as a way of showing you how ridiculous it is to identify violence as “muslim” without considering anything else, and then to blame all Muslims for it.

This is a deal. You stop painting Islam with a broad brush, and my examples of Christian crimes won’t be relevant.

Just one question: How many of these threads have I started?

Yes you did. In this thread alone when I pointed out to you that it was not fair to lump Roman Catholics in with all of Christianity in crimes committed in Russia and Bosnia and Africa and pointed out that we do follow a central teaching authority, you refused to acknowledge the difference and simply kept claiming that Christianity has no central teaching authority even though you know as even the Muslims know that Roman catholicism is considered one of the Christian religions. Sooner or later pro, you will realize that you are the one, not us making these obfuscations. Many times I have asked people on this thread and others simply to stop encouraging you in your distortions of Christianity and Catholicism but they keep on going. Just as you do. With your big broad brush strokes. Start with your own posts 86, and 91 on this thread where you deny that Christianity has a central teaching authority and then reference all of christianity as participating in the crimes against Islam.

So what are you trying to say now, pro? that all of Christianity except the Catholic Church has done these things in Russia, Bosnia and Africa or are you trying to say that Christianity as a whole DOES follow the pope? Which post is correct? This one you just posted or 86, 91, 98 which one is the truth pro?

 

[cestusdei]

pro, I haven’t heard any Muslims apologize for what happened to that boy. They can’t. If Muhammed did it then it must be okay. You have to go back into history to attack us. All I have to do is read today’s news. There is almost always a story. For example today a Muslim crowd stabbed a Christian to death in Indonesia. Ah the religion of peace at work again. Spreading peace and good cheer, or else.

Face it. I got you cornered. You want to change the subject. No way bud. You are going to have to explain why slavery and torture of Christians is okay in todays world by Muslims. You are going to have to explain how you can justify supporting terrorist organizations while claiming you oppose terrorism. It just doesn’t jibe. You can’t have it both ways.

You say find where they say that. I did, in the sentence you left out. Ooops, let’s change the subject so we can avoid anything unpleasant about Islam. Islam is violent and it sees no wrong in what happened to that boy. You cannot escape that and I won’t change the subject. So answer up or admit that the pope was right.

 

[pro_universal]

82% of known terrorist groups in the world are Muslim.

Please provide some proof of this number. I’d like to see hard data proving that 82 percent of known terrorist groups are Muslim.

 

[pro_universal]

pro, I haven’t heard any Muslims apologize for what happened to that boy. They can’t. If Muhammed did it then it must be okay. You have to go back into history to attack us. All I have to do is read today’s news. There is almost always a story. For example today a Muslim crowd stabbed a Christian to death in Indonesia. Ah the religion of peace at work again. Spreading peace and good cheer, or else.

Face it. I got you cornered. You want to change the subject. No way bud. You are going to have to explain why slavery and torture of Christians is okay in todays world by Muslims. You are going to have to explain how you can justify supporting terrorist organizations while claiming you oppose terrorism. It just doesn’t jibe. You can’t have it both ways.

You say find where they say that. I did, in the sentence you left out. Ooops, let’s change the subject so we can avoid anything unpleasant about Islam. Islam is violent and it sees no wrong in what happened to that boy. You cannot escape that and I won’t change the subject. So answer up or admit that the pope was right.

I’m reading that whole piece, and seeing no condemnation of the mass rape and murder of Muslim women.

Yet you’re claiming that I in some mysterious way didn’t condemn the murder of a boy in the Sudan, and you’re still hypocritically asking all Muslims to condemn that single article (which, you might note, isn’t in the mainstream western press…most Christians wouldn’t have heard of it either.)

It’s not “changing the subject”, it’s pointing out that by your own standard for judging Muslims, you yourself would be a supporter of genocide and rape. After all, you’ve done nothing but make excuses for the Serbs in that war, and you repeatedly avoid the issue because you apparently don’t want to condemn violence and rape against Muslim women.

 

[FightingFat]

My main problem with Islam is volunteerism. Theologically they believe a thing is wrong because God says it is wrong. The Pope in his regensburg lecture was trying to demonstrate that Christians believe a thing is wrong because it is wrong- because it is against reason.
I would offer the words of cardinal Newman, who said:

"We can believe what we choose. We are answerable for what we choose to believe."

 

[thistle]

Please provide some proof of this number. I’d like to see hard data proving that 82 percent of known terrorist groups are Muslim.

My friend gave me that number. I’ll ask him his source when I see him next. I’m sure if you search the internet you can come up with plenty of evidence that there are more muslim terrorists than non-muslim and it is the muslims who are the barbaric, murdering, butchering criminals and it is their religion that advocates this!

 

[pro_universal]

My friend gave me that number. I’ll ask him his source when I see him next. I’m sure if you search the internet you can come up with plenty of evidence that there are more muslim terrorists than non-muslim and it is the muslims who are the barbaric, murdering, butchering criminals and it is their religion that advocates this!

I’ve seen no such proof. If anything, the non-Muslim gangs in Africa and South America outnumber the Muslim terrorist groups.

I don’t believe there’s proof that even a simple majority of terrorists are Muslims.

 

[thistle]

I’ve seen no such proof. If anything, the non-Muslim gangs in Africa and South America outnumber the Muslim terrorist groups.

I don’t believe there’s proof that even a simple majority of terrorists are Muslims.

I repeat: It is the muslims who are the barbaric, murdering, butchering criminals and it is their evil violent religion that advocates this!

 

[cestusdei]

pro, I am waiting to hear how you can justify slavery, crucifixion, and supporting known terrorist groups. Not 500 years ago, but TODAY. Let’s hear it.

 

[pro_universal]

I repeat: It is the muslims who are the barbaric, murdering, butchering criminals and it is their evil violent religion that advocates this!

Well, now that you repeated it, it must be true. Or not.

Let’s see, non Muslim terrorist gangs off the top of my head:

Sendero Luminoso

FARC

IRA

UVA/UVF

Popularly called “Contras”

EZLN

ETA

Interahamwey

Army of God (Thailand/Burma)

Lord’s Resistance Army (Uganda)

KKK

Hmmm…looks like a pretty long list of non-Muslim groups out there, with a slough on top of them in sub-saharan africa and south america.

 

[pro_universal]

pro, I am waiting to hear how you can justify slavery, crucifixion, and supporting known terrorist groups. Not 500 years ago, but TODAY. Let’s hear it.

If you’re waiting to hear me justify it, it’s because you didn’t read my last post. If your only response is to lie about my positions, that speaks volumes about the strength of your own.

 

[jburgherr]

Hmmm…looks like a pretty long list of non-Muslim groups out there, with a slough on top of them in sub-saharan africa and south america.

Living in glass houses and throwing stones? Even you would know about this parable.

• Abu Sayyaf, Philippines
• Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Gaza Strip and West Bank
• Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, Egypt also known as The Islamic Group
• al-Qaeda, Worldwide
• Ansar al-Islam, Iraq
• Armed Islamic Group (GIA), Algeria
• Army of Ansar al-Sunna, Iraq
• AZF, France
• Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Egypt
• Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, Egypt
• Great Eastern Islamic Raiders’ Front (IBDA-C), Turkey
• Hamas, Gaza Strip and West Bank
• Harkat-ul-Mujahideen al-Alami, Pakistan
• Hezbollah, Lebanon
• Islamic Movement of Central Asia, Central Asia
• Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Uzbekistan
• Jaish-e-Mohammed, Pakistan and Kashmir
• Jemaah Islamiyah, Indonesia
• Lashkar-e-Toiba, Pakistan and Kashmir
• Lashkar i Jhangvi, Pakistan
• Moro Islamic Liberation Front, Philippines
• Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, Morocco and Europe
• Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Gaza Strip and West Bank
• Tawhid and Jihad (Al-Qaeda in the Land between the Two Rivers (Iraq)), Iraq

You make it way too easy Pro!

 

[cestusdei]

pro, I am still waiting. I remember you claiming that I was making all the persecution stories up. Well I gave you some real ones. In fact I recently saw in the news stories of Christians in the west bank who are being persecuted by the Muslims. You need to face up to the fact that Islam is not the answer, it’s the problem. So tell me again how you can be against terrorism, but support the terrorists?

 

[pro_universal]

jburgherr,

What’s so easy here? That’s a pretty comprehensive list of Islamic terrorist organizations. Mine was a short list off the top of my head of non-Islamic terrorist organizations.

First off, your list is inaccurate:

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization by any reasonable definition of the word.

Al Aqsa martyrs brigade is a secular organization, not a Muslim one. It is the Fatah military wing, and Fatah is a secular group…they’re currently at war with Hamas to force Hamas to recognize Israel.

So that leaves 22 groups you listed compared with 11. Here’s some more, since we consider these lists to be proof positive:

1. Babbar Khalsa (India)
2. Kahane party (Israel)
3. JDL (USA)
4. Orange Volunteers (Northern Ireland)
5. Tamil Tigers (Sri Lanka)
6. Macheteros (Puerto Rico)
7. Communist Party of Nepal
8. Japanese Red Army
9. Khmer Rouge (Cambodia-killed 3-4 million)
10. 17 November: Greece
11. Tupac Amaru: Peru
12. Aryan Nations
13. AUC (Colombia)
14. AAA (Argentina)
15. ELN (Colombia)

That leaves 26 non-islamic terror groups listed in this thread, and I did it only citing two groups from the whole of Africa.

Sorry, but these ‘statistics’ about who is committing the most terrorism are bunk.

 

[jburgherr]

Don’t like those statistics…how about these…

According to statistics of the National Counterterrorism Center, a national government organization of the United States, Islamic extremism was responsible for approximately 57% of terrorist fatalities and 61% of woundings in 2004 and early 2005, where a terrorist perpetrator type could be specified. Extremist acts have included airline hijacking, beheading, kidnapping, assassination, and suicide bombing. Terrorist threats have included fatwas and death threats. Both Muslims and non-Muslims have been among the targets and victims.

Thats of all of the terrorism in the whole world! Islamic extremists claimed 57 percent of all the killings caused by ANY terrorists group.
Pro, your religion (or the one that you are only trying to defend, it doesn’t matter to me), took the biggest bite out of the terroristic pie! This IS INDEFENSIBLE. Concede!