Terrorism Is Alien to Islam

[cestusdei]

The second paragraph alludes to world wide aspirations. But please read the whole thing and then try to tell us how these guys are not terrorists. You cook your own goose by posting the link. Now check out article 11 in the Hamas charter. It clearly states that ANY land conquered by Islam MUST be brought back under Islamic rule. They all sigh about al Andalus. It wasn’t fun for the Spanish. I don’t see anything in either charter about equality for Christians. It is convert or be dhimmi. Notice how they slip in the bit about sharia must be the law and how they laud Khomeini. Or did you miss that? But I see lots about killing Jews and Americans. That doesn’t bother you.

Lo, I am a prophet. I knew pro would want to ignore the issue of slavery and persecution in Sudan.

 

[pro_universal]

The second paragraph alludes to world wide aspirations. But please read the whole thing and then try to tell us how these guys are not terrorists. You cook your own goose by posting the link. Now check out article 11 in the Hamas charter. It clearly states that ANY land conquered by Islam MUST be brought back under Islamic rule. They all sigh about al Andalus. It wasn’t fun for the Spanish. I don’t see anything in either charter about equality for Christians. But I see lots about killing Jews and Americans. That doesn’t bother you.

Lo, I am a prophet. I knew pro would want to ignore the issue of slavery and persecution in Sudan.

Okay, I’ll ask again: Please quote the language where Hizbullah “sighs about Al Andalus” and has anything to say about a place other than Lebanon and Israel.

I’ve read the Hamas Charter too. Here’s article 11, opening paragraph:

yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

The entire article talks exclusively about Arab countries. There is zero mention of Spain or Europe or anywhere outside the Arab states.

It doesn’t appear elsewhere in the Charter either.

You need to start reading before you spread more falsehood.

 

[cestusdei]

No read it again. Article 11 the SECOND paragraph which you conveniently leave out and notice in Hezbullah’s letter the 2nd paragraph. It even mentions the Phillipines. Isn’t that a bit far from Lebanon? Islamic terrorism has global aspirations and they admit it. You are either blind or obfuscating.

Here is the part you left out:
“…and the same goes for ANY land the Muslims have CONQUERED by FORCE, because during the time of Islamic CONQUESTS, the Muslims consecrated these lands to Muslim generations till Judgment Day.”

Now, the poor boy. Sudanese Christians have been enslaved, tortured, persecuted, and murdered in the name of Islam by Muslims. That is a FACT. I tire of your attempts to bog down the issue with pendantic tactics. You seem very keen on changing the subject. This is NOT an isolated case. It is common over there. So let’s hear you say how slavery is okay and doing this to the boy was fine since Islam teaches it. He is just a kaffir, right? Let’s hear you justify this kind of horror. This is the religion you belong to or are joining in action.

 

[pro_universal]

No read it again. Article 11 and notice in Hezbullah’s letter the 2nd paragraph. It even mentions the Phillipines. Isn’t that a bit far from Lebanon? Islamic terrorism has global aspirations and they admit it. You are either blind or obfuscating.

That is just plain dishonest as read of the paragraph, which is probably why you didn’t quote it. Here it is again:

By virtue of the above, we do not constitute an organized and closed party in Lebanon. nor are we a tight political cadre. We are an umma linked to the Muslims of the whole world by the solid doctrinal and religious connection of Islam, whose message God wanted to be fulfilled by the Seal of the Prophets, i.e., Muhammad. This is why whatever touches or strikes the Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Philippines and elsewhere reverberates throughout the whole Muslim umma of which we are an integral part. Our behavior is dictated to us by legal principles laid down by the light of an overall political conception defined by the leading jurist (wilayat al-faqih).

Read it again. Nothing about “conquering new lands” or any such thing. Not a mention of Spain. Not even of the Phillipines. Mentioning that they are brothers to Muslims in other parts of the world is not even remotely what you accuse them of.

Now, the poor boy. Sudanese Christians have been enslaved, tortured, persecuted, and murdered in the name of Islam by Muslims. That is a FACT. I tire of your attempts to bog down the issue with pendantic tactics. You seem very keen on changing the subject. This is NOT an isolated case. It is common over there. So let’s hear you say how slavery is okay and doing this to the boy was fine since Islam teaches it. He is just a kaffir, right? Let’s hear you justify this kind of horror. This is the religion you belong to or are joining in action.

Right, and poor Muslim women were tortured, enslaved, and repeatedly raped by Christians over a period of years in the former Yugoslavia. Does that prove that Christianity is bad?

 

[cestusdei]

Read it above again. I posted the part you deliberately left out. I edited it for your convenience.

Now I still don’t hear you decrying the Sudanese Christians crucifixition. Instead you seem to say it’s okay. Actually the Serbs suffered similiar atrocities under Islam for centuries. The trouble in the Balkans can be traced right back to Islam. Good thing we Christians saved those Muslims in the Balkans.

I am a great prophet. I knew you would not find anything wrong with crucifying an enslaved Christian child. It takes a real hard heart to do that. There is no crime a Muslim cannot commit that you cannot justify. Don’t ever try to claim you are for “peace” etc.

 

[cestusdei]

I am going to bed. But I got you this time pro. Your attempts to move the conversation away from crucifying a Christian child are duly noted. You will have a hard time convincing anyone you are just an objective bystander and lover of human rights. When you say the shahada remember that boy.

 

[prayforwisdom]

Nasrallah himself has done a good job of encouraging Shiites to forgive Lebanon’s Christians for their murderous behavior during the Lebanese civil war.

what?! where did you get this from?

Are you saying that Lebanese Christians were murderous while Lebanese Shiites were not during the civil war?

Where did you get that “Nasrallah himself has done a good job of encouraging Shiites to forgive Lebanon’s Christians”?

Huh??? It would be tough to explain Hassan Nasrallah’s rally then…that was the single largest political rally ever in Lebanon. In the whole history of Lebanon.

Not really, the vast majority, if not all, at the rally would most likely be Shiites. Probably a small amount of Sunnis, probably not even one Christian was at the rally.

He’s the most popular leader with every sectarian group, across the board.

I doubt that very much, especially with regard to the Lebanese Christians (I think the vast majority of Christians do not support him).

haaretz.com/hasen/spages/766373.html
Last update - 18:19 24/09/2006
Lebanese Christian leader: War was disaster, Hezbollah must disarm

By News Agencies

BEIRUT - A Lebanese Christian leader said Sunday that Hezbollah’s war with Israel was a disaster for Lebanon and rapped the Shi’ite Muslim group for rejecting calls to lay down its arms.

"We don’t feel [there was a] victory because the majority of the Lebanese people doesn’t feel victory," Samir Geagea, head of the Lebanese Forces militia-turned-political party, said at a rally attended by thousands of supporters north of Beirut.

"The majority of the Lebanese people feel that a major catastrophe has befallen them, throwing their present and future up in the air," he said.

His speech was a response to Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah’s vow, made at a rally Friday in Beirut’s southern suburbs, not to disarm despite international pressure. Some 800,000 Hezbollah supporters cheered Nasrallah at the gathering.

…

Geagea said a strong state could only emerge after Hezbollah surrenders its weapons.

"Betting on maintaining weapons through force is a wrong bet… No weapons will make us surrender to this de facto reality," he said referring to Hezbollah keeping it arms

Tens of thousands turn out
Tens of thousands of right-wing Christians turned out at the tumultuous rally north of Beirut, in a show of strength two days after a massive gathering by the rival Muslim Shiite Hezbollah.

…

The guerrillas’ fight with Israel sent their support soaring among Shiites. But a large sector - particularly among Christians and Sunni Muslims - opposes Hezbollah and resents it for provoking the fighting by capturing two Israeli soldiers on July 12."

 

[tamccrackine]

When has this “truth” been a secret?

I’ve been upfront with my beliefs from the beginning. If you have no other response than to call me a liar, you should not respond at all. It makes you look bad and it makes your position look weak.

huh? Here’s your post… #39 from the beginning

For at least the tenth time, I am not Muslim.

And now you’re admitting that you are.

I’m not going to comment on the rest of this thread, but I just wanted to point that out.

 

[ichabode]

In response to Jcaz post 18

You speak of the average americans ignorance because they haven’t seen something. This is about a couple of fatwas against terroism. The last 20 years of Islamic terroist acts need about two thousand decrees calling for an end of violence. I would argue that the voice of “true” muslims verses the “fundamentalist/terrorist” muslims is silent. They the non-terrorist muslim seems to be purposefully whispering stop. I wonder why there is not a forcfull yell out. Perhaps they will end up like Salmann Rushdie hiding for the rest of their lives as the majority of fellow religionist put bounties on their heads and applaud.

 

[Lance]

cestusdei, I hope you have finally put pro-universal(read Islam) in a box that he can’t weasle his way out of but I would not bet on it. He will ignore the crucifiction of a Christian child and spout more of his Islamic ‘party line’ stuff about Islam is a religion of peace when we all know it is a violent, oppressive religion started by a false prophet who condoned murder, war, oppression of women and children, rape and plundering. pro_universal is on my ignore list, so I only see his replys to my post when someone quotes him in their reply. I notice that he keeps replying to my posts but I plan to continue to ignore him and if we all do the same maybe he will just slink away.

 

[exoflare]

cestusdei, I hope you have finally put pro-universal(read Islam) in a box that he can’t weasle his way out of but I would not bet on it. He will ignore the crucifiction of a Christian child and spout more of his Islamic ‘party line’ stuff about Islam is a religion of peace when we all know it is a violent, oppressive religion started by a false prophet who condoned murder, war, oppression of women and children, rape and plundering. pro_universal is on my ignore list, so I only see his replys to my post when someone quotes him in their reply. I notice that he keeps replying to my posts but I plan to continue to ignore him and if we all do the same maybe he will just slink away.

Same here… about everything.

 

[cestusdei]

It took some doing, but I think he is cornered. I posted the parts that he left out and he could give no response. Likewise, as I prophesied, he kept trying to ignore a blatent horrific act of child enslavement and crucifixation. He cannot claim that there is no Islamic persecution of Christians. Of course, he has known all along that there is. Hold his feet to the fire about that poor child. Remind him of it when he spouts off about “peace”. If he isn’t Muslim and joins them he cannot now claim he knew nothing about how they treat Christians. No way to hide anymore.

 

[cestusdei]

I have been doing some light reading. The Hamas charter in article 22 identifies the Rotary Club and Lions Club as “Zionist” organizations and therefore targets. That’s right Rotarians. They’ve got your number. You imperialist Lions had better watch out. And these are the terrorists who now run the Palestinian government. They actually believe this garbage.

 

[Eden]

cestusdei:

Likewise, as I prophesied, he kept trying to ignore a blatent horrific act of child enslavement and crucifixation.

I just read the article about the crucified Christian boy in Sudan. I wanted to emphasize also that the boy was a slave. Yes, a slave! In the 21st century. While slave owners in the West were in violation of Christian morality by buying and “owning” human beings, Islam does sanctions slavery.

In fact, I witnessed some Muslim violence in London when I lived there 9 years ago. I was at Speaker’s Corner in Hyde Park one Sunday afternoon listening to all of the people on their soap boxes when I noticed a large crowd drawing around one particular speaker. He had posters flanking him with photographs depicting slavery in present-day Muslim nations in Africa. He was speaking against the sanctioning of slavery in Islam and against the brutality of their owners. He said he was once Muslim and felt obligated to speak out against slavery in Islamic countries. Then I noticed two very angry Arab men in the crowd. They were furiously conversing and gesturing and then moved away from the crowd. The next thing I knew, they ran up to the man on the soap box, pulled him off and while one man held him the other kicked him as hard as he could in the stomach. It happened so quickly and the crowd was so shocked we were immobilized. Just within a split second, the attackers were gone. They got away because the first thought everyone was to rush to the victim’s aid and call out for someone to call an ambulance. I don’t know if the man survived the attack. The last I saw of him was when he was being loaded into an ambulance.

So, the perpetrators of al-takeyya can insist that Islam is a peaceful religion. But witnessed their violence.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Tamcrackine:

Good eye! Every once in awhile he lets things slip. I particularly enjoyed his admission that Hezbollah rules southern lebanon, notwithstanding that it is supposedly a sovereign state, recognized by the international community as such. And he’s okay with that. He’s just not okay with Israel ruling land in the same neighborhood. He has also admitted that the difference is that anything once in this “waqf” (anything ever ruled by Islam) cannot therafter be the homeland of anyone else. But, of course, Israel was once part of the “Jewish ‘waqf’”, but they don’t have this “waqf” right because they’re not Mohammedans.

You know what’s truly disturbing about people like Pro-Universal, if we lived in a land ruled by the likes of him and his precious Hezbollah, and said the things we have said in here, we, and our families, would all already be dead.

 

[jburgherr]

I would love to see Pro spend some quality time over in Lebanon or Saudi Arabia. I would love to see what would happen if he proclaimed as he does here, that he is not Muslim. Proclaim it just as long, as loudly and as vehemently as he does here.

I wonder what would happen… Would it be just the tounge…or would the whole head come off?

Religion of peace…good grief…I will believe Islam is a religion of peace when Mass is celebrated in the Cathedral of Mecca!

 

[pro_universal]

I would love to see Pro spend some quality time over in Lebanon or Saudi Arabia. I would love to see what would happen if he proclaimed as he does here, that he is not Muslim. Proclaim it just as long, as loudly and as vehemently as he does here.

Nearly half of Lebanon is not Muslim. They go to Church and even have their own private armies. So I’m not sure what your point is there…and let’s try a reverse example:

Go to Belgrade and proclaim openly that you are Muslim, over and over.

What would happen?

Religion of peace…good grief…I will believe Islam is a religion of peace when Mass is celebrated in the Cathedral of Mecca!

This is a ridiculous standard. It’s like saying “Catholicism will be a religion of peace when the Pope recites the Quran and praises it in the Vatican”

 

[pro_universal]

Tamcrackine:

Good eye! Every once in awhile he lets things slip.

Okay, where did the “I’m Muslim” part come out? Want to quote that?

Interested in Islam does not equal being Muslim. You people are really stretching here.

I particularly enjoyed his admission that Hezbollah rules southern lebanon, notwithstanding that it is supposedly a sovereign state, recognized by the international community as such. And he’s okay with that. He’s just not okay with Israel ruling land in the same neighborhood.

Well, for one, the Hizbullah members are native Lebanese. That’s one big difference from the Israelis. For two, they actually contribute to social welfare in Lebanon…something the “sovereign state” (ie, Hariri mafia) has not done.

He has also admitted that the difference is that anything once in this “waqf” (anything ever ruled by Islam) cannot therafter be the homeland of anyone else.

What??? Where did I “admit this”? What on earth does this have to do with Lebanon or Palestine and my comments on them?

But, of course, Israel was once part of the “Jewish ‘waqf’”, but they don’t have this “waqf” right because they’re not Mohammedans.

You know what’s truly disturbing about people like Pro-Universal, if we lived in a land ruled by the likes of him and his precious Hezbollah, and said the things we have said in here, we, and our families, would all already be dead.

Okay, many, many Christians live in Lebanon. Even in the South of Lebanon. Hizbullah has not killed them. In fact, Hizbullah defended their towns from Israeli tanks in the latest war…where was the “sovereign state” to defend the Christian southern towns?

Can you give me a single example of someone being killed by Hizbullah just for being Christian?

 

[cestusdei]

Hey pro, I’m over here waving! Care to respond to my posts? Like about the boy who was crucified by peace loving Muslims?

 

[pro_universal]

Hey pro, I’m over here waving! Care to respond to my posts? Like about the boy who was crucified by peace loving Muslims?

You’ll get better responses if you do not behave like a child and insult me by calling me a terrorist.

But in any case, I already did respond. It is wrong and tragic that the boy died.

It’s also wrong and tragic that Muslim women were systematically raped by Serbs over a period of years. Does the Yugoslav conflict prove that Christianity is bad? Please answer the question.

If the Yugoslav conflict doesn’t prove anything about Christianity, why should we take the events of life in the Sudan to prove something about Islam?