Terrorism Is Alien to Islam

[Eden]

But all that doesn’t stop the bombing of clinics where doctor’s perform abortions. The original poster just set forth his beliefs why Koran denounces terrorism. How is that different?

You won’t find passages in the Bible to support bombing abortionists. The Quran has 164 suras teaching Muslims to kill and fight non-believers. Please show me one passage in the New Testament, and more specifically an example given by Christ, that supports your claim that the Bible and Christianity incite people to bomb abortionists.

Here are some of the more infamous suras from the Quran:

“Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies.” Surah 8:60

“Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame.” Surah 9:14

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.” Surah 8:12, 17

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” Surah 9:5

“Fight (kill)* those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.*”
Surah 9:29

The Hadiths:

In the Hadith, Mohammed also urges Muslims to practice Jihad. Mohammed once was asked: “what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle?” His answer was: “To participate in Jihad in Allah’s cause.” Al Bukhari vol. 1:25

Mohammed was quoted as saying: “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Al Bukhari vol. 4:196

Mohammed also said, “the person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed).” Al Bukhari vol. 1:35

The example of Muhammed:

When the prophet of Islam started preaching his new religion in Mecca, he was conciliatory to Christians and Jews. He told them: “We believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God.” Surah 29:45

This attitude changed completely after he gained strength. Allah then allegedly told him to “Fight People of the Book (Christians and Jews), who do not accept the religion of the truth (Islam), until they pay tribute (penalty tax) by hand, being inferior.” Surah 9:29

Saad ruled that all Bani Qurayza’s men should be beheaded, that the women and children should be sold as slaves and that all their property should be divided among the Muslims. Trenches were dug in the bazaar of Medina for disposal of the eight to nine hundred Jewish bodies whom Mohammed and his men had spent the night slaughtering. (See Ibn Hisham: The Prophet’s biography; vol. 2 pages 240 & 241).

islamreview.com/articles/terrorofislam.shtml

 

[Eden]

Oh Really? So therefore, those fatwas must not exist. And they surely must not exist because YOU have not seen them. :banghead: (sarcasm intended).

So, fatwas against, for instance, bin Laden and al-Zawahari exist? I would really like to read those. You call us ignorant Westerners but I, too, have never heard of any fatwas being issued against the men behind Muslim terrorist attacks.

 

[StMarkEofE]

It would be nice to be able to believe this. Unfortunately, when Islamic leader after leader; cleric after cleric, mob after mob, denounces and threatens the Pope for something he did not do, and which they know full well he did not do, and when not a single one comes out and says “Stop! This is wrong! This is sinful!” I cannot.

Islamic theology is divided into two suras: Meccan and Medinan

The Meccan ones come from the first segment of Muhammad’s carreer as a prophet, when he simple called the Meccans to Islam.

It this second sura, the Medinan, that bothers me and those who fear Islam. The Medinan suras are less poetic and generally much longer than those from Mecca. They are also filled with matters of law and ritual and exhortations to jihad warfare against unbelievers.

Muslims believe in doctrinal abrogation. That is, the idea that Allah can change or cancel what he tells Muslims: “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute somethting better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?” (Quran 2:106)

This abrogation or (naskh) can justify both the orthodox Muslim and the fanatical Muslim at the same time. We cant say that well its just a fringe that can do this because by abrogation a Muslim can define what the Quran says if that what he believes the Quran says AND be justified in doing so.

 

[pro_universal]

Islamic theology is divided into two suras: Meccan and Medinan

The Meccan ones come from the first segment of Muhammad’s carreer as a prophet, when he simple called the Meccans to Islam.

It this second sura, the Medinan, that bothers me and those who fear Islam. The Medinan suras are less poetic and generally much longer than those from Mecca. They are also filled with matters of law and ritual and exhortations to jihad warfare against unbelievers.

Muslims believe in doctrinal abrogation. That is, the idea that Allah can change or cancel what he tells Muslims: “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute somethting better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?” (Quran 2:106)

This abrogation or (naskh) can justify both the orthodox Muslim and the fanatical Muslim at the same time. We cant say that well its just a fringe that can do this because by abrogation a Muslim can define what the Quran says if that what he believes the Quran says AND be justified in doing so.

Have you actually read the Quran?

It’s strange, I see people talking about the more or less violent suras, abrogation, etc etc…but in ways that make it obvious the book hasn’te been read.

For example, if you had happened across 2:106 while reading the Quran, you would have seen that it is referring to different revelations from God throughout time, ie, like the Torah to Moses, the Prophethood of Jesus, etc…not to the Quran itself.

I exhort all of you who are getting these quotes from the internet to actually sit down and read the chapter you get the quote from. The Surahs are very short, and there’s simply no excuse for relying on an internet jockey’s claims based on one single verse when you can very easily read the book yourself.

 

[tamccrackine]

I exhort all of you who are getting these quotes from the internet to actually sit down and read the chapter you get the quote from. The Surahs are very short, and there’s simply no excuse for relying on an internet jockey’s claims based on one single verse when you can very easily read the book yourself.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that we’re all internet junkies reading internet jockies interpretation of specifics about Islam. You’re assuming StMarkEofE can’t read for himself and come to intelligent conclusions.

For myself, I’ve come to my own conclusions of what I’ve studied while in college, then with what I’ve experienced, and with what my DH has experienced while in Iraq. So pardon a few of us that seem to have a genuine confusion in the conflicting ideas that come from Islam while we have a genuine interest of trying to understand.

 

[pro_universal]

I don’t think it’s fair to say that we’re all internet junkies reading internet jockies interpretation of specifics about Islam. You’re assuming StMarkEofE can’t read for himself and come to intelligent conclusions.

No, I am not assuming you are all internet junkies at all. I am asking all of you who do read about Islam on websites that build a claim around one verse (like the articles Eden posts) to just sit down and read the book. I made no general claim whatsoever about StMark…

But it is obvious from his claims about that particular verse that he didn’t sit down to read the chapter. So how he found the verse without finding the chapter is pretty clear: on the internet.

Internet information about religion from anti-religious sources is bad. That’s all I want to highlight.

For myself, I’ve come to my own conclusions of what I’ve studied while in college, then with what I’ve experienced, and with what my DH has experienced while in Iraq. So pardon a few of us that seem to have a genuine confusion in the conflicting ideas that come from Islam while we have a genuine interest of trying to understand.

Nothing wrong with that. If you have a particular conflict with the texts, I’d like to see it and I’m sure others would also. The problem I was highlighting wasn’t concern or confusion…it was taking what was obviously a selected quote from an article, and making claims about it without checking the book.

 

[Eden]

For myself, I’ve come to my own conclusions of what I’ve studied while in college, then with what I’ve experienced, and with what my DH has experienced while in Iraq. So pardon a few of us that seem to have a genuine confusion in the conflicting ideas that come from Islam while we have a genuine interest of trying to understand.

But you know. It makes me think. Maybe I’m wrong about the Quran. Maybe all that funny business about killing in those 164 suras has been misinterpreted. I think I’ll go find a Muslim and see how he interprets the Quran. Go to the source, right? After all, he’s surely read the whole thing. Oh look, here’s a Muslim now, just outside a Catholic Church in London. I wonder what he has to say:

“Jihad in the name of Allah! Death to you, by God! Death to you, by God! May Allah bomb you! May Usama bin Laden bomb you! May Usama bin Laden bomb you! We love Usama! Usama we love you! Usama and Zawahiri are heroes! They are men! Usama and Zawahiri are men! They will bomb you! And Allah will be with them! We will take revenge on you! Allah is Great! Allah is Great! May they bomb Denmark, so we can invade their country! And take their wives as war booty! Allah is Great! Allah is Great!”

http://bestsmileys.com/scared/3.gif Wonder if he’s read the Quran?

youtube.com/watch?v=cPgZ8NgYs8I (1:19 into video)

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Have you actually read the Quran?

It’s strange, I see people talking about the more or less violent suras, abrogation, etc etc…but in ways that make it obvious the book hasn’te been read.

For example, if you had happened across 2:106 while reading the Quran, you would have seen that it is referring to different revelations from God throughout time, ie, like the Torah to Moses, the Prophethood of Jesus, etc…not to the Quran itself.

I exhort all of you who are getting these quotes from the internet to actually sit down and read the chapter you get the quote from. The Surahs are very short, and there’s simply no excuse for relying on an internet jockey’s claims based on one single verse when you can very easily read the book yourself.

Strange how that view is not shared by the tafsirs who all regard the abrogation of 2:106 to refer to the Quran and the Quran only, granted that the Quran also talks about the Quran abrogating previous scriptures.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ }

When the disbelievers began to deride the matter of abrogation, saying that one day Muhammad enjoins his companions to one thing and then the next day he forbids it, God revealed: And whatever verse (mā is the conditional particle), that has been revealed containing a judgement, We abrogate, either together with its recital or not [that is only its judgement, but its recital continues]; there is a variant reading, nunsikh, meaning ‘[Whatever verse] We command you or Gabriel to abrogate’, or postpone, so that We do not reveal the judgement contained in it, and We withhold its recital or retain it in the Preserved Tablet; a variant reading [of nunsi’hā] is nunsihā, from ‘to forget’: so ‘[Whatever verse We abrogate] or We make you forget, that is, We erase from your heart’; the response to the conditional sentence [begun with mā] is: We bring [in place] a better, one that is more beneficial for [Our] servants, either because it is easier [to implement] or contains much reward; or the like of it, in terms of religious obligation and reward; do you not know that God has power over all things?, including abrogating and substituting [verses]? (the interrogative here is meant as an affirmative).

Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ }

Then Allah mentions what was abrogated of the Qur’an and that which was not abrogated, as a direct reference to the claim of the Quraysh who said to the Prophet: O Muhammad! Why do you command us to do something and then forbid it, saying: (Such of Our revelations as We abrogate) We do not erase a verse that was acted upon before and which is now not acted upon (or cause to be forgotten) or leave unabrogated so that it is acted upon, (We bring one better) We send Gabriel with that which more profitable and easier to act upon (or the like) in reward, benefit and action. (Knowest thou not) O Muhammad (that Allah is Able to do all things?) of the abrogated and unabrogated.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Allah tells us of the weak minds of the idolators, and their lack of faith and conviction. He explains that it is impossible for them to have faith when He has decreed that they are doomed. When they saw that some rulings had been changed by being abrogated, they said to the Messenger of Allah :

﴿إِنَّمَآ أَنتَ مُفْتَرٍ﴾

(You are but a forger) meaning one who tells lies. But Allah is the Lord Who does whatever He wills, and rules as He wants.

﴿بَدَّلْنَآ ءَايَةً مَّكَانَ ءَايَةٍ﴾

(And when We change a verse (of the Qur’an) in place of another) Mujahid said: this means, "We remove one and put another in its place.’’ Qatadah said: this is like the Ayah:

﴿مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ ءَايَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا﴾

(Whatever verse We change ﴿abrogate﴾ or omit ﴿the abrogated﴾…)’’ (2:106). Allah said, in response to them:

﴿قُلْ نَزَّلَهُ رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ﴾

(Say: "Ruh-ul-Qudus has brought it…’’) meaning, Jibril,

﴿مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ﴾

(from your Lord with truth, ) meaning, with truthfulness and justice

﴿لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ﴾

(for the conviction of those who believe,) so that they will believe what was revealed earlier and what was revealed later, and humble themselves towards Allah.

﴿وَهُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ﴾

(and as a guide and good news for the Muslims.) meaning He has made it a guide and good news to the Muslims who believe in Allah and His Messengers.

﴿وَلَقَدْ نَعْلَمُ أَنَّهُمْ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّمَا يُعَلِّمُهُ بَشَرٌ لِّسَانُ الَّذِى يُلْحِدُونَ إِلَيْهِ أَعْجَمِىٌّ وَهَـذَا لِسَانٌ عَرَبِىٌّ مُّبِينٌ ﴾

 

[strawberry]

And I’m sick of your ignorance and hatred. So be it.

What kind of ignorance? people telling the truth ignorance? Why? Shame of your own religion?

 

[Valke2]

You won’t find passages in the Bible to support bombing abortionists. The Quran has 164 suras teaching Muslims to kill and fight non-believers. Please show me one passage in the New Testament, and more specifically an example given by Christ, that supports your claim that the Bible and Christianity incite people to bomb abortionists.

YOu are right. I wouldn’t find passages supporting bombing clinics. But apparently, others do. And they feel they are doing God’s work. Does that mean that the bible promotes violence? Or that it is not being interperted correctly?

 

[Brian_C]

Wow, so…do you have to be a Christian to hate the crime of abortion that much? Funny how Muslims use violent punishment for a variety of other offenses.

Wana bet that there is more documented evidence of Muslims chopping off hands and the like than there is of abortion clinic bombings?

What about the recent case of the poor little boy that was punished for shoplifting by having his arm driven over by a truck?

Or my favorite, the Iranian teenage girl who was hanged for being too attractive?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ateqeh_Rajabi

Spare me the “Christians are bombing abortion clinics” line. You cannot convince me these two religions don’t have fundamentally different teachings and attitudes. As Benedict was trying to point out, reason has done a great deal to shape the Christian faith.

 

[Wolseley]

Or my favorite, the Iranian teenage girl who was hanged for being too attractive?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ateqeh_Rajabi

One more example of why I don’t spend too much time arguing with the left about whether Islam is a wonderful, peaceful religion or not----I just go out and stock up on more ammunition.

If they ever get this far, it will be far, far better to go out with an Islamic bullet in my chest, acquired while resisting them on a battlefield, than to submit to the tender mercies of their judicial system. I will not live under that system.

 

[Booklover]

And I’m sick of your ignorance and hatred. So be it.

Can’t Muslims ever come up with another answer, except to accuse anyone who does not agree with Islam of “hatred”!

But good thing you follow the way of Jesus in your actions in dealing with non-Christians on forums!!!

And you’ve declared that Islam should be spread by war if necessary! Tell me, do Muslims treat non-Muslims with love? They compare us with:

faeces, urine, dogs, semen, blood, pigs, animals who eat filth!

Why the double standards? You want us to respect Islam and Muslims, but Muslims don’t respect anyone who disagrees with what they believe!

 

[FightingFat]

I want to believe Islam is about peace, I spend a lot of time here putting the Muslim perspective, I have many Muslim friends, but after the last few weeks, I pretty much admit defeat.

Sadly, Muslim actions speak louder than words.

 

[pro_universal]

Why the double standards? You want us to respect Islam and Muslims, but Muslims don’t respect anyone who disagrees with what they believe!

They certainly are a respectful people, but you won’t see that because all of your information appears to be coming from websites dedicated to defaming Islam.

The hype surrounding Islam has gone so far that we have people on Catholic forums fantasizing about meeting “them mooslims!” on a battlefield:

One more example of why I don’t spend too much time arguing with the left about whether Islam is a wonderful, peaceful religion or not----I just go out and stock up on more ammunition…

Wow…just, wow.

I guess it’s not too surprising that people are shooting at mosques in the US now, and throwing bullet ridden copies of the Quran at their doorsteps.

Scary times, to say the least. All I have to say at this point is: if people really start to take you all seriously in your claims about Islam, they are going to start wanting a “final solution” to the “muslim problem”…and I don’t expect you’ll all suddenly change your tunes to defend Muslims from that “solution.”

 

[tequilamac]

YOu are right. I wouldn’t find passages supporting bombing clinics. But apparently, others do. And they feel they are doing God’s work. Does that mean that the bible promotes violence? Or that it is not being interperted correctly?

No. The “Bible” does not promote violence. The Old Testament portion of the Bible, whicn Islam and Judaism relate to, promotes violence. The New Testament which we follow promotes no violence. One has to be careful with the Bible. The Torah, while it is where we came from, is not our primary goal. The New Testament is. The Torah, as we know, promotes violence, but in Christianity we say that is due to it being an incomplete revelation of God, the fullness of truth being revealed only with the coming of Christ and the New Testament.
So, yes the Old Testament portions of the Bible promote violence as the Old Testament consists primarily of the Jewish Torah.
So there is really something ludicrous about a Jew asking a Christian if the Bible promotes violence, isn’t there? You claim you study your religion. Go read your portion of the Bible then. I’m sure you have it handy.

 

[jburgherr]

Terrorism and extremism are alien to Islam.

All evidence to the contrary. Actions speak louder than words…and the actions of what is being performed in the name of Islam is appalling!

Time for you to admonish your brothers and sisters!

 

[pro_universal]

All evidence to the contrary. Actions speak louder than words…and the actions of what is being performed in the name of Islam is appalling!

Time for you to admonish your brothers and sisters!

Wait…here’s a guy posting that terrorism is alien to Islam, and you want him to embrace terrorists as his brothers and sisters?

Why would he do that if he thinks terrorism is anti-Islamic?

And isn’t saying that these people do not follow God’s commands a pretty big admonishment?

Strange…so many go around claiming that no Muslims speak out against terrorism, yet, whenever a Muslim posts on this board that terrorism is against Islam, those same people are quick to say “Then how come no one is speaking out!”

They always do, it’s just that you’re not listening

 

[tequilamac]

Wait…here’s a guy posting that terrorism is alien to Islam, and you want him to embrace terrorists as his brothers and sisters?

Why would he do that if he thinks terrorism is anti-Islamic?

And isn’t saying that these people do not follow God’s commands a pretty big admonishment?

Strange…so many go around claiming that no Muslims speak out against terrorism, yet, whenever a Muslim posts on this board that terrorism is against Islam, those same people are quick to say “Then how come no one is speaking out!”

They always do, it’s just that you’re not listening

Don’t be ridiculous. It just seems that people should put their money where their mouths are. If it is true that Muslims speak out against terrorism, then let them speak out to the terrorists. Let them condemn the terrorists. Instead, Muslims such as yourself come here and admonish Catholics for thinking Islam is a violent religion. Irrational.
Every once in a very great while a fatwa is published in a paper. It is the opinion of one group, published very rarely, condemning terrorism, and is simply not binding on the Islamic community. This is good. It is a start. But it is not nearly enough to undo the damage done. The damage has been done, not just to Christians, but to atheists, Jews or any other person riding on a subway or sitting in the WTC, The damage has been done to Islam. Because now people really, really, really, do not like Islam. So it would make sense for Muslims to not come here and admonish Catholics for thinking Islam upholds terrorism and instead spend their time teaching their brothers and sisters the supposed peace tenets of their religion, now wouldn’t it?
We have thousands dead by terrorist actions. One fatwa published by one group not binding on Islam as a whole is hardly an impressive turnout.

 

[Booklover]

They certainly are a respectful people, but you won’t see that because all of your information appears to be coming from websites dedicated to defaming Islam

Muslims are respectful? Really? Here is a typical example of the emails sent to FFI by peaceful “respectful” Muslims!

Date: Sep 2, 2006 4:18 AM
Subject: Please print this on your website

Dear pigs,

Im not going to give you any proof, Why should i? Pigs dont have the
intellectual capability to understand any proof. No matter what, you dont
beleave and never will, Gods wrath descended on you the day you were created
and it looks like he’s chosen hell for your abode. How dare you insult the
greatest man that ever lived? God has chosen the holy prophet above all of
creation. You are a “Dajjal” a weak man who will destroy his own soul. I
cant think of another human being who has insulted the prophet the way you
have. The devil has taken you for a ride and truly possesed your brain you
deluded sick *****. Take your 50,000 and stick it up your anal passage see if
it fits. We dont worship a ***** like you sick hindu *****, Drinking your
urine and eating your **** u polytheist moron. Islam will be victorious
thats a fact just deal with it! You call muslims terrorists but look at what
you kufar dogs have done butchering and raping women and children, pointless
racist islamaphobic pigs u deserve everything your gonna get and i hope you
suffer like we have suffered. YOU ARE IN A VERY DANGEROUS POSITION AND YOU
WILL SUFFER EXTREME TORMENT FOR YOUR BLASPHEMY YOU ***** PIGS!!! ON THAT
DAY I WILL LAUGH IN YOUR FACE AND WATCH YOU CRY LIKE A ***** BABY
Thank you for taking the time to read my comments i hope this doesnt spoil
our freindship.

PS I dont like to be cruel to animals but ill make an exception to you
***** dogs

Is this what you call “respect” ??? And as for those websites “defaming” Islam, they’re simply telling the truth about it, that’s why Muslims react as hooligans, proving what is being said there!