Texas man wants pregnant wife off life support despite state laws

[St_Francis]

The mother’s dead, so that argument flies out of the window.

And, you’re right, we don’t know. But. you’re simply assuming the effects will be bad.

You, OTOH, are calling fulfillment of the father’s request “murder.” Have you seen the medical records? Were you there when the doctors discussed the prognosis?

The Church teaches that withdrawal of medical treatment is legitimate *and not murder *under certain circumstances. *From what incomplete information we have, *this case may well far under those criteria.

Since we do not have sufficient knowledge of this particular case, we cannot make an ultimate judgement like “This is murder,” as you are doing. .

Please look forward in time to prove that this baby will be born with three heads and a tail, and then the rest of your argument might have some merit.

Please look at the present time and tell us what is known of the baby’s condition and prognosis, and then what you say may have some merit.

 

[twoshoes]

When I first read about this situation,my first inclination was to sustain the mom’s body to be used as a incubator until the fetus was viable, and longer if possible. But then I heard the husband say that he and his wife, both EMTs, discussed their end of life directives. She did not want extraordinary efforts made to keep her alive. But what really killed me was when the article I read mentioned their young son who watched his dad come home everyday from visiting mommy, wondering/hoping when his mom was coming home. It’s time to let this mom go. God has called her home.

How do you explain to this little boy we had to kill your brother or sister to let your mother pass. If we had waited a few more weeks they may will have been alive to play with you. OH yea, your sister looks just like your mother.

No where does he state if she is weeks away from delivering to let her die and kill my baby also.

life is to precious, as Pope Francis says" to throw away", fight for life. I have been in the presence of death many time, with people I loved very much, and I can tell you emotions are very high. Sometimes it’s best to rethink a position, and ask for advice from your family Priest or minister.

This baby in the womb is very much a part of the mother, would you want to throw away a living reminder of her. Once lost it can never be reclaimed.

 

[twoshoes]

Isn’t it true that those who support abortion usually use the argument that it is the woman’s body? It seems that argument is sacrosanct even if the woman is dead.

Very Good Point. The baby is viable and alive, she is not.

 

[twoshoes]

Yes, the baby is alive but removing life support equipment from the mother would not be directly killing the baby. It is a secondary, unintended consequence. Just as in an ectopic pregnancy when the mom’s fallopian tube needs to be removed and the baby dies as an unintended consequence. This is allowed by the Church. There is no shame involved here.

Of course it directly effects the baby, just the same as if you removed breast feeding would. Since when is killing a baby just an unintended consequence. When is fighting for life evil.

 

[estesbob]

If this baby is born healthy how does the father explain to them that he fought to have them die?

 

[seekerz]

The mother’s dead, so that argument flies out of the window.

And, you’re right, we don’t know. But. you’re simply assuming the effects will be bad.

Please look forward in time to prove that this baby will be born with three heads and a tail, and then the rest of your argument might have some merit.

For a Christian, dead does not mean finished…caput. So my argument does have merit.

I don’t have to prove anything. God allowed the woman to die - I don’t see that anyone is compelled to fight to prevent nature taking its course, using extraordinary, experimental means. God is the master of life and death, not us. To me, this is equivalent to those who seek fertility by any means. Some things are just not meant to be…

 

[seekerz]

If this baby is born healthy how does the father explain to them that he fought to have them die?

The outcome for the baby/family does not change the principle any more than being deliriously happy with triplets or sextuplets justifies artificial insemination.

 

[Mulligan2]

Have not read all the comments (on purpose) I think its an overstep of the state government to overrule the wishes of the couple. I think this sets a horrible standard for a number of reasons.

Excellent point. Based on common sense rather than emotion.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Of course it directly effects the baby, just the same as if you removed breast feeding would. Since when is killing a baby just an unintended consequence. When is fighting for life evil.

The two aren’t the same at all! This woman is dead. She is not on “life support” by any conventional meaning of the term. The hospital is merely in a race against decomposition in a macabre attempt to save a fetus from its fate.

 

[estesbob]

The outcome for the baby/family does not change the principle any more than being deliriously happy with triplets or sextuplets justifies artificial insemination.

So the Father tells the child " look I wanted you dead but it was to make a point"?

 

[vz71]

The two aren’t the same at all! This woman is dead. She is not on “life support” by any conventional meaning of the term. The hospital is merely in a race against decomposition in a macabre attempt to save a fetus from its fate.

I still have not heard a real answer.
What are the chances of survival for the baby?

Can we really call this extraordinary means if there is a good chance for the baby to survive?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I still have not heard a real answer.
What are the chances of survival for the baby?

Can we really call this extraordinary means if there is a good chance for the baby to survive?

I don’t know either. But I found this article:

dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140116-lawyers-hospital-records-confirm-pregnant-woman-on-life-support-is-brain-dead.ece

**

What happened to Marlise Muñoz?

According to news reports, Muñoz, a 33-year-old paramedic for the town of Crowley, was at home with her husband and toddler son around 2 a.m. on Nov. 26. Her husband, Erick Muñoz, a Crowley firefighter-paramedic, says he heard his son crying, went to the room and found his wife on the floor, unconscious. He started CPR and called 911. At the time, Muñoz was about 14 weeks pregnant. Now, the fetus is about 21 weeks.
What happened to her at the hospital?
The county-owned hospital, citing privacy laws, says it can’t comment. The hospital says the family has refused to sign a release that would allow its officials to discuss the case. The family says that Muñoz’s heart stopped more than once and was restarted. She was placed on a respirator. Her husband says he was told she was “brain dead.” Since she had made clear that she would not have wanted to be placed on life support in that situation, her husband asked that she be taken off the respirator. The hospital declined, citing Texas law
**.

I understand from basic biology that a stopped heart causes lack of oxygen and prolonged lack of oxygen leads to death.

Her heart had stopped more than once? And she was without oxygen for up to an hour?

I am not at all comfortable with accusing this father of “murder”.

 

[Magdalen2013]

I still have not heard a real answer.
What are the chances of survival for the baby?

Can we really call this extraordinary means if there is a good chance for the baby to survive?

The baby does not have a good chance of surviving – the doctors have said that there was oxygen deprivation when the mother collapsed, and they have had to restart her heart several times now. Every time this happens it does some damage to the baby.

I have not read whether the hospital is running any sort of nutrition into the mother’s body, and even if they are, no one knows how well this will nourish the baby. Plus, because of the lack of normal activity in the brain, the organs of the mother’s body will start to break down.

So, yes it’s extraordinary means.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Can we really call this extraordinary means if there is a good chance for the baby to survive?

Are you kidding?? This woman has been dead for two months and her body will start to show signs of decomposition if it hasn’t already! You don’t think attempting to bring a fetus to term in a months old cadaver constitutes extraordinary means??

 

[twoshoes]

Are you kidding?? This woman has been dead for two months and her body will start to show signs of decomposition if it hasn’t already! You don’t think attempting to bring a fetus to term in a months old cadaver constitutes extraordinary means??

The baby is still alive. Think about the life that is viable, that might some day save other lives, maybe even yours, or mine. You seem to think only of dead mother and give little or no regard to the life still to be born. The baby is as human and has the same right to life as you do.

The baby does not have to go to full term.

 

[twoshoes]

I don’t know either. But I found this article:

dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140116-lawyers-hospital-records-confirm-pregnant-woman-on-life-support-is-brain-dead.ece

****.

I understand from basic biology that a stopped heart causes lack of oxygen and prolonged lack of oxygen leads to death.

Her heart had stopped more than once? And she was without oxygen for up to an hour?

I am not at all comfortable with accusing this father of “murder”.

I agree, no one should call him a murder these are very emotional and trying times for her family. I’ll pray that God gives them comfort and strength.

From the few reports I don’t think any of us has a complete handle on the situation.

 

[vz71]

Are you kidding?? This woman has been dead for two months and her body will start to show signs of decomposition if it hasn’t already! You don’t think attempting to bring a fetus to term in a months old cadaver constitutes extraordinary means??

Decomposition does not happen until the body is dead.
It is being kept alive by a machine.
I understand this has been done before with some degree of success.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t know either. But I found this article:

dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140116-lawyers-hospital-records-confirm-pregnant-woman-on-life-support-is-brain-dead.ece

****.

I understand from basic biology that a stopped heart causes lack of oxygen and prolonged lack of oxygen leads to death.

Her heart had stopped more than once? And she was without oxygen for up to an hour?

I am not at all comfortable with accusing this father of “murder”.

We should have compassion for the Father.

 

[St_Francis]

Decomposition does not happen until the body is dead.
It is being kept alive by a machine.
I understand this has been done before with some degree of success.

Altho because there is a machine pumping oxygen into her lungs her heart is beating, she is not being “kept alive;” she is dead. Apparently in these cases there is a reduction in blood flow resulting in some slow decomposition.

In the case of Jahi MacMath, the doctors said that this would tale place and reduce the ability of doctors to determine the cause of her death.

 

[St_Francis]

Have not read all the comments (on purpose) I think its an overstep of the state government to overrule the wishes of the couple. I think this sets a horrible standard for a number of reasons.

I think that there are times when it would be all right for the government to overrule the wishes of a guardian making a decision, as in the case of Terri Schiavo, but this does not seem to be one of those cases.