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jrabs
Guest
I guess my feeble mind is thankful that I am Catholic. I have a difficult time remembering anything.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
One explanation I’ve heard is that one must know the word in order to use it when it needs to be used. The example was when Jesus was tempted in the desert and satan quoted Scripture to Him, that Jesus – without having to go study – was able to recall and understand not only the verses in question, but immediately knew verses that would be useful in His reply. I’ve heard Protestants preach that if you don’t “word up” you won’t know what to say to satan or how to reproach him.
Alan
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mumof5
Guest
Nice try at getting personal but fortunately not true. It’s not that people don’t necessarily want to discuss the Bible, it’s that they CAN’T. I do have one Catholic friend with Opus Dei who would possibly be willing but she’s a good friend and I don’t want to alienate her. Why might she be a good bet? Because she is an intelligent and educated woman and I know she enjoys the mental workout of discussing things other than the weather!
Seeking out friendship at church - well, the people I do know in the church, who I have met outside the church, have families and large ones at that. I have no extended family and certainly none that are practicing. There isn’t the opportunity to get involved in things like discussion groups in order to get to know people.
I am not an easy person to get to know, I admit, but once you know me, I am very loyal and will always be the first to be there in a crisis. I have been told the gift I have been given by God is the gift of comforting. The difficulty is that people will latch on for what they can get out of you and I’m trying to be on guard about that sort of thing. Maybe I’m too hard on some friends. Like me they are very busy and have big families - and when I do see them they are happy to chat. Speaking of which, that reminds me I meant to ring a friend who is having some problems.
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mumof5
Guest
Who said anything about memorisation? To be able to see and show the harmony through the bible, one has to know what is in there even if basic. I know a lot of scriptures but for the life of me couldn’t remember where they are all located! If someone wants to show me something by the early church fathers, I’m going to do what the bible says and weigh it against scripture. Can it be proven, disproven?
I had a conversation with a Catholic friend who told me that she thought she had a problem with her faith because sometimes she questioned things!! My response was that God gave her a brain and 'm sure he wanted her to question things otherwise it was possible to just believe any old thing. “Prove all things, hold fast to what is fine.” This is the approach I am dealing with and where my frustration comes from in that people I know CAN’T discuss it, rather than not wanting to, because they are just going with the flow and believing anything they are told without asking the basis of it first.
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jrabs
Guest
Good points - thanks for clarifying. OK - God Bless on your search.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Yes, God bless you on your search.
Consider this: since we Catholics believe that once Catholic, always Catholic, then know that as far as we’re concerned whatever inspired you to leave – whether you felt more pushed by us or pulled by others – it was your decision, not ours.
That means that the decision is reversible, and to the extent you consider it honorable I hope you stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.
As you said, it is nice to see Catholics care about God. My belief is that they care about you too, even if in an annoyingly parental way. Sometimes that can hurt more than anything else, as people who are interested in their faith and discussing it (here’s proof – they go on the Internet and talk about it, sometimes obsessively) don’t seem to be able to look straight across at you as they cannot believe this severance. Sure, it may not have seemed like Catholics cared whether you are a member or not, and I understand that is face to face.
Now certainly we who have tried to encourage you to see what we have, risk coming off as protecting the Church by defending her against your reasons for leaving even as you certainly will carry through on your plans and therefore it is for our own pride and self-esteem as members of a Church to protect her. This is one thing that I have to be careful about, that when I am trying to convince you not to leave that it is truly that I believe I am being charitable to you, or whether I am simply protecting my turf and don’t like the idea of people getting away. Yes, that sounds truly evil but these are the types of conflicts I sense going on at all levels in a discussion on this nature.
For the most part, you can take it either way. I believe that the very people who are cold to you just might warm up if you tried. For the first time, this Lent I am running and faith sharing group who meet once a week, and you would be impressed at how the Catholics there love to dig into the Bible. You may be at a dead place, and maybe you’re not up to trying to revive it and you feel you will die on the vine – doesn’t mean it’s true but if that’s how you feel then one can understand how this is simply a gasp for air in a way. If for no other reason, allow this Catholic to have that imagery because I know that I have finally found within the Church, a faith rich enough to stay in and keep my kids. I am pretty liberal about Protestants, and I don’t mind visiting their services or even throwing a few bucks toward their efforts at times. Protestants and “non-denoms” actually lifted me up and brought me back to the Church myself after I once had quit practicing altogether. There are many wonderful people out there, good fish and good possible fishers of men.
As far as I’m concerned, Catholicism will always be in your roots so even if you don’t formally come back, I hope you will carry our spirits somehow out there – who knows but you may become a beckon to others when they see this wonderful person who “came from” the Catholic Church??? God works in mysterious ways and I try very hard not to second guess whether anything that happens is actually not God’s will.
Alan
Consider this: since we Catholics believe that once Catholic, always Catholic, then know that as far as we’re concerned whatever inspired you to leave – whether you felt more pushed by us or pulled by others – it was your decision, not ours.
That means that the decision is reversible, and to the extent you consider it honorable I hope you stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.
As you said, it is nice to see Catholics care about God. My belief is that they care about you too, even if in an annoyingly parental way. Sometimes that can hurt more than anything else, as people who are interested in their faith and discussing it (here’s proof – they go on the Internet and talk about it, sometimes obsessively) don’t seem to be able to look straight across at you as they cannot believe this severance. Sure, it may not have seemed like Catholics cared whether you are a member or not, and I understand that is face to face.
Now certainly we who have tried to encourage you to see what we have, risk coming off as protecting the Church by defending her against your reasons for leaving even as you certainly will carry through on your plans and therefore it is for our own pride and self-esteem as members of a Church to protect her. This is one thing that I have to be careful about, that when I am trying to convince you not to leave that it is truly that I believe I am being charitable to you, or whether I am simply protecting my turf and don’t like the idea of people getting away. Yes, that sounds truly evil but these are the types of conflicts I sense going on at all levels in a discussion on this nature.
For the most part, you can take it either way. I believe that the very people who are cold to you just might warm up if you tried. For the first time, this Lent I am running and faith sharing group who meet once a week, and you would be impressed at how the Catholics there love to dig into the Bible. You may be at a dead place, and maybe you’re not up to trying to revive it and you feel you will die on the vine – doesn’t mean it’s true but if that’s how you feel then one can understand how this is simply a gasp for air in a way. If for no other reason, allow this Catholic to have that imagery because I know that I have finally found within the Church, a faith rich enough to stay in and keep my kids. I am pretty liberal about Protestants, and I don’t mind visiting their services or even throwing a few bucks toward their efforts at times. Protestants and “non-denoms” actually lifted me up and brought me back to the Church myself after I once had quit practicing altogether. There are many wonderful people out there, good fish and good possible fishers of men.
As far as I’m concerned, Catholicism will always be in your roots so even if you don’t formally come back, I hope you will carry our spirits somehow out there – who knows but you may become a beckon to others when they see this wonderful person who “came from” the Catholic Church??? God works in mysterious ways and I try very hard not to second guess whether anything that happens is actually not God’s will.
Alan
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mumof5
Guest
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Eden
Guest
You have offered an entire thread full of information about your pesonal life. I was simply making an observation from all of the information you provided here. From the way you present yourself here on the threads, it is not a great leap to imagine that some of the people you say were ignoring you at the Catholic Church may be avoiding the types of interactions that have been happening in this thread.
Maybe it’s because you present your interest in discussing the Bible as some sort of police inquiry. It doesn’t sound pleasant or friendly from the way you describe your offer. I can understand why your offer has been rejected. It sounds like an attack not a Christian exchange.
I think you are right that it would alienate her. At least in the way you are presenting it now.
Well, if you present it that way, as a “mental challenge” instead of “you’re the only Catholic who knows the Bible” which sets up a confrontational environment rather than a friendly debate. If you present it as a friendly debate, she probably won’t feel alientated but flattered.
I’m not sure what this is. But I was just trying to point out that you said one of the biggest problems at the Catholic Church was that you didn’t feel welcome. If that is an ongoing theme wherever you go, I was trying to point out that maybe it’s you. I apologize if that was too blunt.
I am sure you are a wonderful person and a great friend. Perhaps it is just the nature of forums, but all of your posts that I read here are taking jabs at the Catholic faith and insinuating that we are all fools for remaining in the Church. That can put people off even if that was not the intention.
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mumof5
Guest
You have offered an entire thread full of information about your pesonal life. I was simply making an observation from all of the information you provided here. From the way you present yourself here on the threads, it is not a great leap to imagine that some of the people you say were ignoring you at the Catholic Church may be avoiding the types of interactions that have been happening in this thread.
Um…no… Maybe there’s a reason I’m discussing this on a board instead of with ‘real’ people
Maybe it’s because you present your interest in discussing the Bible as some sort of police inquiry. It doesn’t sound pleasant or friendly from the way you describe your offer. I can understand why your offer has been rejected. It sounds like an attack not a Christian exchange.
Well, I haven’t made any ‘offers’. What I am referring to is in the context of a friendly conversation where a friend has raised something and I’ve just commented in passing that I wasn’t sure about it because the bible said … and I wasn’t sure how that fitted in. It wasn’t even a challenge to anything, merely reflecting quietly. So I know what would happen if I tried any serious discussion…
I think you are right that it would alienate her. At least in the way you are presenting it now.
Obviously face to face would be quite different and things could be discussed properly.
I’m not sure what this is. But I was just trying to point out that you said one of the biggest problems at the Catholic Church was that you didn’t feel welcome. If that is an ongoing theme wherever you go, I was trying to point out that maybe it’s you. I apologize if that was too blunt.
My social problems in the Catholic church (and yes, it’s in the Catholic church and I see it as a problem) stem from the lack of opportunities that exist but really, come down to the same old story… I can only do things that I can take my kids to. Everyone I know in the Catholic church has large extended family and who are they catching up with after Mass? Family. I do not have family here and they certainly don’t practice anyway. I still have preschoolers so taking the older kids to something and occupying them in the corner is not an option. I am limited to when my husband can watch the kids. I have looked into the Passionist Family groups but most of what they do is for the couples and children aren’t welcome. I do not have the evening sitters available so that’s not an option. The key to getting to meet people so you can get to know them is to get involved. How can I do that. At least when I go to the Women’s Bible Study tomorrow morning they have a small room next door set up for children and two people overseeing the preschoolers so I can not only concentrate, but meet people. Hallelujah!
I am sure you are a wonderful person and a great friend. Perhaps it is just the nature of forums, but all of your posts that I read here are taking jabs at the Catholic faith and insinuating that we are all fools for remaining in the Church. That can put people off even if that was not the intention.
Like everyone I have my moment and am not perfect. I do not believe I have taken jabs at the Catholic faith and sorry if it has come across that way. I have tried to seriously communicate my feelings and thoughts and don’t think anyone is a fool for staying with the Catholic church. It’s a church, it’s a denomination. If that’s where God wants you, that’s where you should be. I don’t agree with everything it teaches but I don’t think it’s terrible either.
I do wish I had a friend I could seriously discuss these things with. If only…
T
Tim_Hayes
Guest
MUMOF5
There is a reason mwhy a lot of people don’t get overly much into the understanding and memorising of the bible, it is because what you actually read in english in many cases is not what is actually meant. The basic things are there as in love one another etc,but even many of those are not what you think.
Here is one for eg and please answer off the to of your head without looking inot various apologetic articles.
The part where the King invites everyone to a wedding but no one goes, so he sends out his pesonal asistants to ask in the less well to do members and many turn up, but one member does not wear the appropriate “guest” wedding dress and hence is thrown out.
Can you tell me what it means and why he was so offended with the man not wearing the garment.
There is a reason mwhy a lot of people don’t get overly much into the understanding and memorising of the bible, it is because what you actually read in english in many cases is not what is actually meant. The basic things are there as in love one another etc,but even many of those are not what you think.
Here is one for eg and please answer off the to of your head without looking inot various apologetic articles.
The part where the King invites everyone to a wedding but no one goes, so he sends out his pesonal asistants to ask in the less well to do members and many turn up, but one member does not wear the appropriate “guest” wedding dress and hence is thrown out.
Can you tell me what it means and why he was so offended with the man not wearing the garment.
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mumof5
Guest
Tim Hayes:
This parable is basically about the Jews who rejected Jesus and those ‘others’ who accepted him. The man who was rejected offended the King because the lack of the appropriate garment showed a lack of respect. In the bigger context, his not putting on the garment shows he was rejecting what the King provided even though he still wanted to be part of the feast. In terms of Christians today, the man who was rejected would be someone who wanted to be a Christian but didn’t accept the grace given by God and rejected the merits of his sacrifice. In other words, developed their own version of Christianity.
Is this what you are suggesting in your first paragraph when you say there is a reason people don’t bother with learning about what the Bible says? Are you suggesting that it is ‘safer’ not to learn it so you can’t get it wrong?
I can see how you will try to apply this to me but I believe that when we are earnestly seeking, God knows our hearts even if we don’t get it right all the time, if that were even possible.
Thanks for the food for thought
OK - this isn’t a hard parable to understand and I did look it up in the Bible itself (not an apologetics resource, I wanted to read it in context).
This parable is basically about the Jews who rejected Jesus and those ‘others’ who accepted him. The man who was rejected offended the King because the lack of the appropriate garment showed a lack of respect. In the bigger context, his not putting on the garment shows he was rejecting what the King provided even though he still wanted to be part of the feast. In terms of Christians today, the man who was rejected would be someone who wanted to be a Christian but didn’t accept the grace given by God and rejected the merits of his sacrifice. In other words, developed their own version of Christianity.
Is this what you are suggesting in your first paragraph when you say there is a reason people don’t bother with learning about what the Bible says? Are you suggesting that it is ‘safer’ not to learn it so you can’t get it wrong?
I can see how you will try to apply this to me but I believe that when we are earnestly seeking, God knows our hearts even if we don’t get it right all the time, if that were even possible.
Thanks for the food for thought
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Mickey
Guest
The Catholic Church was the only Church for many centuries. Then came the reformation and it’s process of geometric division–that is when the word “denomination” became known. So I would like to correct you–the Catholic Church is not just another “denomination”.
May the peace and love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ be with you always.
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Maureen_Fiore
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Al_Masetti
Guest
A fellow I met left the Catholic Church for a “bible church”… life long Catholic, well educated K- grad school in Catholic institutions. He said the words of the Mass, for example, and the Rosary were made up by the priest.
I took him through all the prayers and readings and demonstrated that everything was scriptural from both the Old and New Testaments.
He was SHOCKED!
He had NO IDEA!!
Hopefully at some point he and his family will “revert”. They moved pretty far away - several states - and we’ve lost touch…
I really wish that priests would teach some of the basics about the structure of the Mass, for example, from the pulpit on Sunday.
I took him through all the prayers and readings and demonstrated that everything was scriptural from both the Old and New Testaments.
He was SHOCKED!
He had NO IDEA!!
Hopefully at some point he and his family will “revert”. They moved pretty far away - several states - and we’ve lost touch…
I really wish that priests would teach some of the basics about the structure of the Mass, for example, from the pulpit on Sunday.
M
MrS
Guest
Al Masetti:
life long Catholic, well educated K- grad school in Catholic institutions
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Probably the words “Catholic institutions” should also be highlighted…life long Catholic, well educated K- grad school in Catholic institutions
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MAGDALENE27
Guest
We will miss you! I’ll pray for you and just know that you
can always “come home” anytime!
can always “come home” anytime!
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Eden
Guest
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JGravel
Guest
. The word used for baptism in the Bible means to immerse or dip. Not sprinkle.
My Church has this Baptismal font as big as a hot tub!
Believe me my Priest immerses everyone! even at easter vigil, the candidates have get right in! Its awesome!
My Church has this Baptismal font as big as a hot tub!
Believe me my Priest immerses everyone! even at easter vigil, the candidates have get right in! Its awesome!
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JGravel
Guest
You need to find a Catholic Church that isn’t Stagnant! Yes there are some out there, but to suggest that the entire Church as a whole is stagnant is just false! Your giving up the riches of our faith because your not being fed at your parish. Change your parish! Why didn’t you start the weekly groups your desire?
I pray you will reconsider.
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