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i understand why the Catholic say no Birth Control, I just don’t agree with it.
The point of the passage is not about brother in law situation; it is about avoiding Birth control in any situation.

From what I see, you have problem with the teachings of the Church and this stops you from wanting to practice what Catholics believe… There is nothing that I see the Church made you feel miserable unless you want to share more. (I felt miserable few times when I had to go to church when I was kid too. 😃 )
 
It would be nice if you just laid out the main points in the the Catholic Church’s teachings that you have problems with. I know that this is a very personal spiritual discernment process but just lay it all out for us. You don’t have to make a long list but **at least 5 of the main teachings ** you don’t agree with. Also, your replies are very very brief and so it makes it very hard to get a real sense of what the problem is other than being made to go to mass, kids treating you differently and birth control.

It just feels like we’re pulling teeth at times. We all want to help make the teachings of the Catholic church clearer to you but if you keep being so brief and vague it will just drag the thread on and on…ultimately making you sick of the thread and driving you away. Which is something we all don’t want.

I went through Catholic grammar school AND high school = 12 years and am **Rican ** myself so there is alot that I can identify with you with. So, please feel free to spill your guts. 😉

Peace and love to you
 
I was reading Mathew Kelley’s book, Rediscovering Catholicism, (great rad, I thought) and he remarks that it usually IS one issue only that makes people think they don’t belong to the Catholic faith. Birth control is a biggie.That, personally, is a biggie for me. Esp since my X was not a part of any religion at all, though he was baptized Baptist. It was very, very difficult to make him see the catholic teaching & my point of view regarding the subject.
And, also, I am so fertile it’s not funny. I am sat to say that abstinence has been a part of reason for divorce, but my mental health is better for it.

Carjack1, care to share where, if at all, you will be… what’s a good term… sharing your faith?
 
Oh, when I wandered away from the CC, my mother was very insistent on teling me that her mother “studied all the religions and decided that CC was the only true religion so then she decided it was OK to marry my dad.(who was a devout Catholic.)” It didn’t work to bring me back, but I look back now & think: yes, that’s my stubborn Grandma!
 
It would be nice if you just laid out the main points in the the Catholic Church’s teachings that you have problems with. I know that this is a very personal spiritual discernment process but just lay it all out for us. You don’t have to make a long list but **at least 5 of the main teachings ** you don’t agree with. Also, your replies are very very brief and so it makes it very hard to get a real sense of what the problem is other than being made to go to mass, kids treating you differently and birth control.

It just feels like we’re pulling teeth at times. We all want to help make the teachings of the Catholic church clearer to you but if you keep being so brief and vague it will just drag the thread on and on…ultimately making you sick of the thread and driving you away. Which is something we all don’t want.

I went through Catholic grammar school AND high school = 12 years and am **Rican ** myself so there is alot that I can identify with you with. So, please feel free to spill your guts. 😉

Peace and love to you
  1. Birth Control is a issue. 2. Woman Priest (I think the church is sexist in these regards) Men are deciding these issues is a little bit on the biased side 3. The fact that SOME Catholics believe that Protestants have a very low chance in being saved(I have seen post that instigate on this issue) 4. The cover up with the Priest and Children(This stuff can happen anywhere, I have a bit of the issue with the “cover up”) 5. The fact that the Catholic has to agree with everything the Church states, even if the don’t believe it. Doesn’t anybody feel :hypno: after a while. 6. The laws in regard to the marriage: a catholic marries a non-catholic equals non-valid. The fact that a person can’t get a divorce due to unfaithfulness( a husband can bring a disease home that could kill his wife and vice versa). If any of the spouse renig on any of their vows, then the contract should be voided 7. Catholics don’t smile at Mass(The ones I have seen, this bothers me a little bit.) Don’t things seem mechanical after a while? Not trying to be rude, but I doze after repetitive motions 8. The fact that if a man is impotent, he cannot be married. (where is the compassion on this) A marriage should be based on love and not on how well the equipment works. These are off the top of my head. If anybody agrees wholeheartedly on that, that is fine. I would NEVER bash the CC, but these are the reasons I don’t agree with them. I am glad you are Rican and can relate to me.
 
  1. Birth Control is a issue. 2. Woman Priest (I think the church is sexist in these regards) Men are deciding these issues is a little bit on the biased side 3. The fact that SOME Catholics believe that Protestants have a very low chance in being saved(I have seen post that instigate on this issue) 4. The cover up with the Priest and Children(This stuff can happen anywhere, I have a bit of the issue with the “cover up”) 5. The fact that the Catholic has to agree with everything the Church states, even if the don’t believe it. Doesn’t anybody feel :hypno: after a while. 6. The laws in regard to the marriage: a catholic marries a non-catholic equals non-valid. The fact that a person can’t get a divorce due to unfaithfulness( a husband can bring a disease home that could kill his wife and vice versa). If any of the spouse renig on any of their vows, then the contract should be voided 7. Catholics don’t smile at Mass(The ones I have seen, this bothers me a little bit.) Don’t things seem mechanical after a while? Not trying to be rude, but I doze after repetitive motions 8. The fact that if a man is impotent, he cannot be married. (where is the compassion on this) A marriage should be based on love and not on how well the equipment works. These are off the top of my head. If anybody agrees wholeheartedly on that, that is fine. I would NEVER bash the CC, but these are the reasons I don’t agree with them. I am glad you are Rican and can relate to me, so you might have heard that because I am “hispanic” that we breed like roaches and that is probably attributed to being Catholic(I don’t agree with this, but I am sick of these stereotypes thrown at me):rolleyes:
 
Heh, heh. Great. So leave the Catholic Church and you won’t be Puerto Rican any more! 😃
 
I was reading Mathew Kelley’s book, Rediscovering Catholicism, (great rad, I thought) and he remarks that it usually IS one issue only that makes people think they don’t belong to the Catholic faith. Birth control is a biggie.That, personally, is a biggie for me. Esp since my X was not a part of any religion at all, though he was baptized Baptist. It was very, very difficult to make him see the catholic teaching & my point of view regarding the subject.
And, also, I am so fertile it’s not funny. I am sat to say that abstinence has been a part of reason for divorce, but my mental health is better for it.

Carjack1, care to share where, if at all, you will be… what’s a good term… sharing your faith?
Non-denominational Church.
 
I’m the 9th child of 11. The times people learned how big a family & asked if I was Mormon!
 
I’m the 9th child of 11. The times people learned how big a family & asked if I was Mormon!
LOL. I am not sure what generation you are in. But a lot of people had big families back then. Either way stereotyping is wrong.
 
LOL. I am not sure what generation you are in. But a lot of people had big families back then. Either way stereotyping is wrong.
You are right.
I am guilty of calling my family a “big Midwestern family” even tho the family didn’t begin until AFTER my parents moved from the Midwest!
 
LOL. I am not sure what generation you are in. But a lot of people had big families back then. Either way stereotyping is wrong.
Oh, and I am ‘only’ 41. Mom constantly reminds me she had my little sis at 42. Thus, the birth control dillema. She was a little crazy by the time I came around (she admits this) & that is something I have a problem with. I TRULY don’t believe we are supposed to constantly agree to more children. We do have to be real. ANd “know yourself.” And, as I said, I’m so fertile it’s not funny.

As far as not being able to marry if you are impotent, I really don’t think it’s anyone’s business. (Where’d you hear that one?) I mean, you have to be “open to life.” Fine, BE open to life. That doesn’t mean you can’t marry if those parts don’t work, does it? To me, Open to Life means appreciating all God’s children, yours or not.
 
Oh, and I am ‘only’ 41. Mom constantly reminds me she had my little sis at 42. Thus, the birth control dillema. She was a little crazy by the time I came around (she admits this) & that is something I have a problem with. I TRULY don’t believe we are supposed to constantly agree to more children.It goes to trust him because HE will provide We do have to be real. ANd “know yourself.” And, as I said, I’m so fertile it’s not funny.Aww, poor thing:)

As far as not being able to marry if you are impotent, I really don’t think it’s anyone’s business. (Where’d you hear that one?) I mean, you have to be “open to life.” Fine, BE open to life. That doesn’t mean you can’t marry if those parts don’t work, does it? To me, Open to Life means appreciating all God’s children, yours or not.
I actually read in Italy they denied a man the right to marry. Here is the link freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2028455/posts . He is a quadrapolgec(I can’t spell) so they know he is permanently imporent.
 
That’s what I said. I think I looked like this :eek: when I was done reading the article. LOL. I like talking on here and learning. This has turned into a mini-debate. Sometimes when I read some of the stuff I get stressed out. I was just told (because I have seen 6 members of my family die of AIDS) that it was their fault. :mad: I replied that we all have faults and that no one deserves to die like that. Is that the Catholic perspective? I really hope not because I thought Catholics were a bit more compassionate than that.
 
Carjack1
Making me go to Mass. It is a very horrid experience. We had to go one day a week. The kids didn’t like me, when peace time came, they shook my hand with the fakest smile on their faces
This is sad indeed. In other words, you are judging the Church because of what some kids did to you. You have a great misunderstanding here. We do not go to mass to be liked by others. We do not go to mass to feel good. We do not go to mass to get anything out of it. We go to give thanks to God, to praise, and Worship Him.
We cannot go looking around for church that will worship the way “I” like it. Many do that and are simply telling God, “ I want to worship you my way”. God instituted His Church, which is now known as the Catholic Church, and he specified how he wants to be worshipped.

I have known may people that left the CC because they are made welcomed by others there. They like the music, they like the energizing preaching, the jumping up and down of many non-denominational church, but looking back into history of how the Early Church worshipped, you will find that the CC has basically the same type of worship. In addition, if you truly understood the CC and understood the Eucharist, the central part of Catholicism, how can a person leave Jesus behind in the Eucharist for another place that is empty?

What I have seen from some of your responses is not that you don’t believe in some of the doctrines. It’s that you do not want to believe in them. See, God does not change according to the mode of people or to their whims or to the era. I remember people saying many years ago , “Hey, wake up, this is the 70’s!!” Or, “This is the 80’s, 90’s, the 21st century.” "The Church is so behind the times.” Birth control goes against God’s law and as mentioned earlier all Christian denominations had the same belief as the Catholic Church. The Lambeth Conference changed that and now look at the situation in the Anglican Church. I suggest you read Humane Vitae and see how prophetic the words of Pope Paul VI were. The CC not allowing women to be priest has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with sexism. That’s how God wanted it and that’s how it will remain till the end of time. You apparently do not understand what the ministerial priesthood is all about.

This is the thing. Many leave the Catholic Church because the CC teaches this and that are sins so by leaving the CC, then those things that I want to do will no longer be sin. Guess what? They are sins non-the-less. Switching denominations will not make abortion not a sin, or homosexual acts not a sin. Switching denominations will not change those facts. People go around shopping for something they like and feel comfortable with and as soon as that church comes up with things that they don’t like, they go and shop around for something else.

Before you make the final decision, think very carefully what you are leaving behind. Forget about all the feelings you have had and how people in the Church have treated you. Look back at the teachings of the Church and see if they have changed any over 2000 years. If they haven’t you know that those teachings are true, because God does not change and Jesus left instituted His Church to go out and teach. Whether you want to believe in them or not makes no difference. God gave us 10 commandments and not 10 suggestions and for us to pick and choose which one we feel comfortable with.

You need to stop and pray and ask God to help you accept HIS teachings, whether you like them or not. Do not make your decision based on feelings but on what is Truith. Remember in Genesis, who is that one that told Eve, “Did God really say that.”? The same way we fall into the trap of “Is artificial birth control really a sin?” And, “You really can’t believe that doctrine is true can you?” Think about who is putting those thoughs in your mind.

In the meantime, were are all here praying for you.
 
Carjack1
This is sad indeed. In other words, you are judging the Church because of what some kids did to you. This is only part of the reasonYou have a great misunderstanding here. We do not go to mass to be liked by others.No one should go for that reason We do not go to mass to feel goodNo, but one should feel joy when they are worshipping. We do not go to mass to get anything out of it.This is a no brainer We go to give thanks to God, to praise, and Worship Him.So do other Churches
We cannot go looking around for church that will worship the way “I” like it.A person should agree with worship style Many do that and are simply telling God, “ I want to worship you my way”.God likes worship regardless of how it is done God instituted His ChurchThat’s your opinion, I am glad you believe that, which is now known as the Catholic ChurchI am glad you feel strongly about that, and he specified how he wants to be worshipped. People decided that, but believe what the Church is feeding you. I do not have to believe what you beleive. I don’t, which why I rather not be a Catholic.

I have known may people that left the CC because they are made welcomed by others there. That is ridiculous, leave because you do not beleive in the doctrineThey like the music, they like the energizing preaching, the jumping up and down of many non-denominational church, but looking back into history of how the Early Church worshipped, you will find that the CC has basically the same type of worshipThat is great, but the doctrine is what is most important… In addition, if you truly understood the CC and understood the Eucharist, the central part of Catholicism, how can a person leave Jesus behind in the Eucharist for another place that is empty? That is clearly your opinion, which others do not share

What I have seen from some of your responses is not that you don’t believe in some of the doctrines. It’s that you do not want to believe in them. No I REALLY don’t believe themSee, God does not change according to the mode of people or to their whims or to the era.I agree I remember people saying many years ago , “Hey, wake up, this is the 70’s!!” Or, “This is the 80’s, 90’s, the 21st century.” "The Church is so behind the times.” Birth control goes against God’s law and as mentioned earlier all Christian denominations had the same belief as the Catholic Church. They wisened up on this. Thank GodThe Lambeth Conference changed that and now look at the situation in the Anglican Church. I suggest you read Humane Vitae and see how prophetic the words of Pope Paul VI were. The CC not allowing women to be priest has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with sexism. That’s how God wanted it I am sorry the men of the CC has interpreted God’s Word in that wayand that’s how it will remain till the end of time.Very Sad You apparently do not understand what the ministerial priesthood is all about.I do which is why I don’t understand the Church’s insistence on rejecting women

This is the thing. Many leave the Catholic Church because the CC teaches this and that are sins so by leaving the CC,I can’t leave something that I was never a part of then those things that I want to do will no longer be sin. Guess what? They are sins non-the-lessIn your view. Switching denominations will not make abortion not a sin, or homosexual acts not a sin.These things are clearly stated in the New Testament and therefore the point is moot. Switching denominations will not change those facts.No the facts will not change People go around shopping for something they like and feel comfortable with and as soon as that church comes up with things that they don’t like, they go and shop around for something else. If they do not believe in what the church is teaching, what is the poing of being a hypocrite and staying?

Before you make the final decision, think very carefully what you are leaving behind. Forget about all the feelings you have had and how people in the Church have treated you. Look back at the teachings of the Church and see if they have changed any over 2000 yearsIf they haven’t that is pretty sad. If they haven’t you know that those teachings are true,Not necessarily because God does not change and Jesus left instituted His Church to go out and teachIt wasn’t the Catholic Church, but believe what you would like. Whether you want to believe in them or not makes no difference. God gave us 10 commandmentsAll the commandments are there, the Church likes to create other doctrines on top of those and not 10 suggestions and for us to pick and choose which one we feel comfortable with.

You need to stop and pray and ask God to help you accept HIS teachingsI prayed and He has let me know that the CC is not right for me and that HIS teaching aren’t there, whether you like them or not. Do not make your decision based on feelings but on what is Truith. Remember in Genesis, who is that one that told Eve, “Did God really say that.”? The same way we fall into the trap of “Is artificial birth control really a sin?”No it is not. And, “You really can’t believe that doctrine is true can you?” Think about who is putting those thoughs in your mind.The HS is. Thank God.

In the meantime, were are all here praying for you.
Thank you for your opinion
 
Again thank you everyone. I may stop in to visit occassionally on the lighter topics. Not on the I am right and you are wrong type of forums. 🙂

Again Thank You and God Bless You All!
 
That’s what I said. I think I looked like this :eek: when I was done reading the article. LOL. I like talking on here and learning. This has turned into a mini-debate. Sometimes when I read some of the stuff I get stressed out. I was just told (because I have seen 6 members of my family die of AIDS) that it was their fault. :mad: I replied that we all have faults and that no one deserves to die like that. Is that the Catholic perspective? I really hope not because I thought Catholics were a bit more compassionate than that.
Well, just like all the rest of Humanity, you will find some that are compassionate & others who aren’t.
Sorry, it wasn’t my intention to turn this into a mini-debate! I was trying to say that even tho I have lots (LOTS) of questions, I can say that I returned because the CC does not “change with the times.” I went to a non-denomination church for awhile -until X decided it no longer made him “feel good”. I don’t agree with alot of the things I’ve learned BUT I know that it’s OK to question it & get solid answers. Don’t know bout you, but I didn’t dare question it as a kid.
 
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