Thanks a lot, NOT!

[Oh_Charlotte]

I will just say have your own fun without him. I can say over time my husband felt a little left out but it was over time, as my kids are older. I have to admit we have ore fun without my husband but always invite him to come along. My situation has improved somewhat I wont lie and say its great, or I am really happy in my marriage but things are better.

My sister-in-law, who is managing to keep a marriage intact with self-centered rather entitled sort of man, also ALWAYS invites her husband along for anything she does fun with the kids. He very much values his “own” time and freedom to do as he pleases when he pleases, so he doesn’t always come along, but she always invites him. He does not always give the same consideration (taking them out to eat without inviting her, when she doesn’t have a car or money and makes everyone’s meals…) but she will always treat him how she wants to be treated.

… I should add “unless she is trying to teach him a lesson”. Since its useless to “have a talk” (she has tried it in every possible nice and careful way) about something bothersome/wrong as his defense mechanism (since he feels no one should tell him how to do anything) is to blow her off. So she *shows *him by imitating his behavior sometimes, or turning his same words back on him in the same way on another occasion. Once he was brushing his teeth and she elbowed him out of the way. Which was shocking because she’s mild of manner (unless she is crossed). He registered the expected surprise, and she was able to say mildly with a bit of surprise herself, “Oh. That’s what you do to me when I am brushing my teeth.” (He couldn’t have been corrected at the moment of the offense, he would have gotten mad or denied it or given excuse. But the element of surprise and her not being mad when she said it did make it sink in.)

 

[JLCecilia]

Oh how I WISH DH would take the kids out for ANYTHING. Even just to the back yard!

 

[28562]

Are there no males (brothers, friends, neighbors, dad, priest, etc) that can talk to him about how to NOT act like a child? Someone needs to tell him to be a man.

 

[petitfleur]

I think there were a few times when he would hear or see other dads and feel slightly embarrassed. Once at work he was grumbling about having to babysit his kids, and the office assistant looked at him and said “you don’t babysit your own kids, its called spending time with them.” When my older kids were little he was useless. He got better as they grew. Right now he has my younger kids, this was his choice, and he made the plans. I know when he gets home he is going to make a big deal about it and expect a perfectly clean house when he gets home:shrug: I am relaxing a bit instead. I did get some stuff done.

 

[JLCecilia]

Are there no males (brothers, friends, neighbors, dad, priest, etc) that can talk to him about how to NOT act like a child? Someone needs to tell him to be a man.

Yeah, there’ve been plenty of those kinds of convos, to no effect. When it’s come up in the presence of his parents, they both shake their heads, but his dad really doesn’t say anything. I have a feeling that that sort of conversation - if it ever took place - would not occur in the presence of MIL or me. Not that DH would take a word his dad said, seeing as how HE wasn’t the best example as a husband or father.

We’ve bickered in front of his one brother that we both trust and respect and he’s stood up for me, but DH just shrugs his shoulders. He will acknowledge that he isn’t the best, but that’s as far as it goes. This particular brother is probably the example that DH would most likely try to imitate, but it’s only a thought, it never manifests into action.

He DOES have a friend who, like his brother, he would probably like to imitate, but he lives too far away. If he was closer, I could probably get DH to do some work on the house w/ the help of his buddy. DH DOES mention how good it feels to accomplish things around the house (handyman-wise), but he doesn’t have the initiative or know-how to do it on his own. He would probably agree that the ‘buddy’ time would be enjoyable as well, even if it DID occur while working rather than strictly leisure. He has no such friends where we live, all of his relationships are online. The only social gatherings he attends are family get-togethers or his brothers’ homes or THEIR friends’ homes (if his brother invites him).

I think the biggest reason DH doesn’t respond to such conversations is that it normally occurs in mixed company (i.e. his parents or brother) and he finds it disrespectful of me to bring it up. I will give him that, but, believe me, I’m not going to just bring it up out of the blue. Normally I’m just responding to where the conversation leads: DH openly admits he doesn’t like having people over b/c our house isn’t nice to which I’ll respond, 'so do something about it. I suppose it would be charitable of me to NOT take any and every advantage I can find to put him on the spot. Hey, if you’re gonna go there, so am I.

 

[Xantippe]

I agree that putting him on the spot in front of a large gathering is not nice or effective. I think what people had in mind is, could you ask one of those male relatives to talk to him privately?

Can you get him to sit down with you and make a plan for home improvements, with an eye toward being able to invite his family over regularly (since that’s his in-person social network)? You might want to wait on this until your baby is born and your hormones are settled (so you don’t freak out at him), or if you feel like you can hold yourself together, can you get him to help you with a project or two? Keep it limited, as husbands are prone to fearing seemingly infinite honey-do lists. Ask him to figure out with you the most pressing projects that you can accomplish by yourselves on a single day and then put it on your schedule for some Saturday (or whatever). Again, keep it limited, and then let him go when the project that you scheduled is done. If the most pressing things are not things that you can accomplish yourselves, make a plan for saving money for hiring somebody to do it (i.e. we’re going to save $30 a month until we have enough money to hire somebody to retile the bathroom).

From your description, it sounds like his family is a possible positive influence on him and his only real life relationship, so I think that relationship needs to be shored up. I think you should invite them over and do entertaining that is moderate and doesn’t stress you out–for instance you could invite everybody over for a serve-yourself ice cream bar (lots of toppings) and back yard play for the kids. With your pregnancy/imminent new baby nobody will expect more of you. Do only as much as you can actually enjoy.

I think the combination of regular family entertaining and regular meetings with you may work.

 

[JLCecilia]

From your description, it sounds like his family is a possible positive influence on him and his only real life relationship, so I think that relationship needs to be shored up. I think you should invite them over and do entertaining that is moderate and doesn’t stress you out–for instance you could invite everybody over for a serve-yourself ice cream bar (lots of toppings) and back yard play for the kids. With your pregnancy/imminent new baby nobody will expect more of you. Do only as much as you can actually enjoy.

I think the combination of regular family entertaining and regular meetings with you may work.

My BIL started our immediate family on monthly dinners last year w/ each couple taking a turn to host, just so that we were sure to get together regularly. On more than one occasion, he and his wife have allowed us to use their house to host our dinner or our kids’ birthday party (which is immediate family only anyway). They did the cleaning, we did the catering. Of all of us, they have the nicest, most spacious home and I think we can all agree we prefer getting together at their place better than anyone else’s house. That’s pretty clear when the gatherings at their place last longer than at anyone else’s home.

I’m past the point of being embarrassed of my home. I do my best to clean, but, even on my best day, I simply can’t do it all (and yes, the children DO help). I no longer claim responsibility for the state of my home, not that I would ever expect any of our family or friends to say anything anyway. The way I see it, home repairs are DH’s job, considering I do everything else AND work outside the home. So, if our house looks trashy, it’s b/c he refuses to help or even TALK about projects. There really aren’t too many 1-day or even 1-weekend tasks in our home. We may fix one thing, but to fix the other things around it down the road would entail undoing the previous task. Much of it is really all-or-nothing. We’ve done enough band-aid fixes to realize that they are waste of time and money.

I am normally a complete neat freak, but when I scrub and clean and everything’s picked up and in order and things STILL look shotty, I lose my motivation. So the pendulum has swung to the extreme opposite where I just let things get trashy. Nobody comes over anyway except DH’s brothers when it’s his turn to host fight night, THEN he gets motivated. I think next time it’s his turn to host, the kids and I will just head out for the day to go play and let DH pick up the house on his own. His one brother that we really like is the only one who ever says anything about this or that looks like it needs fixed. It really isn’t a shot at us, he’s only mentioning something he thinks we might not’ve noticed. That really opens up the conversation. He is the only one DH will talk about home projects around b/c BIL is the only one in the family who has ever bothered to fix up his place AND HELP in the process. But, that’s where it ends. Everyone we’ve talked about knows we can’t afford to hire help and we don’t have the know-how to do it on our own and that we can’t afford it anyway. Any one of them would help in an instant if DH would only ask.

 

[Xantippe]

“Everyone we’ve talked about knows we can’t afford to hire help and we don’t have the know-how to do it on our own and that we can’t afford it anyway. Any one of them would help in an instant if DH would only ask.”

Can you get one of them to ask your husband?

“Bob, JLCecilia was saying that you’d like to fix XYZ but need some help with it. I’m free next Saturday if you are. What do you think?”

And then make sure and feed your helper generously.

Are you guys (or your kids) overscheduled on the weekend? Can you dial it back temporarily to work on this stuff, one little project at a time? I think your home should be a priority, as it sounds like you and your husband are both demoralized and depressed by it, each in your own way.

Or, can you sell this house? It sounds like you need something less high-maintenance, or maybe even just a rental, as you aren’t up to dealing with a fixer-upper.

 

[Xantippe]

Not to pathologize, but you should probably also have your husband evaluated for depression if nothing seems to work. Depression could explain his apathy, low energy, and lack of interest in normal activities.

 

[exiled]

When my husband and I were in those earlier years of marriage it was tough as nails, too. He was not helpful and not considerate. I fell down the stairs once when in my third trimester. He looked up, but didn’t say a word. Some time later (and I mean years) I brought this up, and his response was, “Well, you got up.” To him that meant no-harm-done, which wasn’t the point.
Anyway, he was no help, grouchy, he yelled A LOT if a child did a childish thing. The pain in the kids’ faces because they had no idea what they had done wrong was heartbreaking.
Fast forward to our 17th year of marriage. Christmas, my first with my family in 10 years, back in my hometown. After 2 days he explodes on me in a tirade of expletives (after blowing up on the then-4y/o for no real reason.)
Well, that was it. I said, “no more”. You will go to spiritual direction or we are done.
That was all it took, me putting my foot down in no uncertain terms. He was scared, and he went. He did an about face instantly. For a full year he was perfect. Then, this past Christmas he had a backslide and blew up three times in two days or so. (he had missed his regularly schedule spiritual direction for a few weeks) Once again, I refused to even entertain the idea of repairing this ourselves; he had proven over the years it was fruitless. He and I must return to the priest together, and then get him back on track. He did, and almost four months into the new year he continues to grow towards God, and our marriage is better than ever.
I asked the priest how in the world he could make such a dramatic change almost overnight, and he felt as though DH was just ready. I’m not sure I get that, but I think it’s also an element of respect. He knew I was dead serious after all of these years, he knew he was wrong (deep down) and he didn’t want to lose all of us. I demanded, he responded.
There is no way for me to categorically say that such an move is right for your marriage, but it might be something to prayerfully consider.
My prayers are with you.

 

[Lukelion]

After 18 years of marriage, I’m to the point of; you do something, or I will!
After praying, David picked up the 5 smooth stones And flung one. After Joshua talked
to the Lord, they circled Jericho. There is a time for praying, and a time for action.
If I continually put up with bad behavior, they have no reason to change, and will continue to do the same. Only you know what point you are at.

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

Not to pathologize, but you should probably also have your husband evaluated for depression if nothing seems to work. Depression could explain his apathy, low energy, and lack of interest in normal activities.

I think he sounds more self-centered bordering on narcissism. Unless the endless computer addiction has contributed to depression, which it could have. But this man is selfish to his core, if he can see his pregnant wife dragging in groceries and never lift a finger to help her!



Yes, JLCecilia, I would also be tempted to consider separation.

 

[Xantippe]

I’ve been thinking a little more, and I think you should probably sell the house if that is at all feasible. You’re not homeowner-material at this point in your lives. It only makes sense if 1) you have lots of money or 2) you are able to do lots of stuff around the house yourself. That is not you.

If you eventually divorce, you will have to sell the house anyway, so there’s no harm in selling it now and seeing if a different housing arrangement (for instance, a landlord who fixes stuff and takes care of exterior maintenance) might not be more appropriate for your particular situation.

This is another subject to sit down and talk to your husband about.

 

[JLCecilia]

Not to pathologize, but you should probably also have your husband evaluated for depression if nothing seems to work. Depression could explain his apathy, low energy, and lack of interest in normal activities.

Yes, I made DH go to the dr a few years ago and dr told him what I already knew and DH knows perfectly well too: no excercise, poor diet, horrendous hours/sleep patterns=depression. I don’t recall if dr prescribed him anything at that time for depression; if so, it’s like every other script dolled out: he fills it and doesn’t keep up w/ it.

Exiled, I think spiritual direction would be good for both of us. I’ve actually never utilized this b/c even when we had the most amazing priest on the planet, for some reason, I was petrified. Now, my biggest concern would be confidentiality. Not sure about that one. I can tell you for sure, he won’t go on his own.

Xantippe, we are absolutely NOT booked for ANYTHING on the weekends. We have nothing BUT time. Well, I should rephrase that, I have nothing but time. I’m normally trying to catch up on chores and get a head start on cooking for the week or just trying to get the kids out of the house, but I’d be willing to give up a few weekends and grab drive-thru if it meant getting a home project done. I think selling the house and just moving into a rental sounds marvy. I think DH would absolutely be opposed to the idea, but I’m not sure how to make my move on this. I’m opposed to make any moves b/c my #1 priority is to be able to quit my job and stay home full time w/ my children. If I can find a rental to even save us a couple hundred a month btwn rent and utilities, it might be a start down that road and then I’d be in a place to say: No new house unless I can stay home. I don’t care if we’re busting at the seems in our dinky little place, a nice new house cannot possibly satisfy my need for more time to fulfill my vocation to our family and keep up on meals and the house. For sure a bigger home w/ a bigger mortgage further marrying me to working outside the home AND more square footage to clean would only make things worse.

I would happily live in our dinky little place for many years till we outgrow the destructive phase w/ our children and I’m satisfied w/ EVERYONE’S willingness to help out. I just want the place fixed up. Every home my parents bought, they POURED sweat equity into (and most likely went overbudget) just to be able to enjoy it. My mother normally was the catalyst for debt accrual and I’m not sure I’m willing to go into debt over it (just that much further away from being able to stay home).

Things have been a little smoother w/ DH since I texted him what’s up w/ me, but he’s yet to actually talk to me about it. Perhaps getting away w/ him for dinner this weekend will provide that opportunity. No matter what changes he makes, no less than 6 months apart is going to do it for me. His changes are normally short-lived and it’s no longer enough, he needs to do his time (considering how many years I’ve ‘done’).

 

[thewanderer]

I hope I don’t come across too harshly, but, if your husband has already been diagnosed with depression and you already **know **that he has been and then still go on to complain about all of his bad habits which are in large part caused or at least greatly exagerated because of his illness then this is in no way a clear-cut scenario of you being the good spouse who always puts up with everything and your husband just being a selfish man who never helps you. He is ill. It is your job to love him in sickness and in health. Perhaps he is not acting as well as he could to try and get through his illness, but it sounds to me as though you never took his illness seriously or even partly into account to explain his behaviour and instead began to allow yourself to think poorly of your husband and to blame him for everthing even though at least some (if not most) of his poor behaviour is typical for his kind of illness. No, of course its not good or acceptable behaviour, but it sure would be harder to work to get out of your depression if you were married to someone who no longer respected you and could not sympathize with what you were going through or even take into account your illness when sizing up your actions. There is fault on both sides here, and your marriage needs serious counselling.

 

[JLCecilia]

I’m not sure that his depression is that serious. I think the biggest underlying issue is: I didn’t sign up for the Catholic craziness (all these kids, so close together), therefore, I’m not participating in any of it. If you talk to him about doing anything - diy projects, taking the kids out - he thinks it’s too much work and therefore does not attempt it. Ask either of his brothers and they’ll tell you that he wasn’t raised w/ any responsibilities and has never been acclimated to physical labor. DH willingly admits after a finished project how good it feels, but he certainly doesn’t want to make a habit of it!

Xantippe, on further reflection, in order to sell our house, DH would insist on doing all of the projects that would make our home more liveable and then I’d be content to stay rather than sell. Who knows, if we got it ready, we still may sit on it long enough to enjoy it. Doubt he’ll buy it though until he finishes school or figures things out w/ his job.

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

I’m not sure that his depression is that serious. I think the biggest underlying issue is: I didn’t sign up for the Catholic craziness (all these kids, so close together), therefore, I’m not participating in any of it. If you talk to him about doing anything - diy projects, taking the kids out - he thinks it’s too much work and therefore does not attempt it. Ask either of his brothers and they’ll tell you that he wasn’t raised w/ any responsibilities and has never been acclimated to physical labor. DH willingly admits after a finished project how good it feels, but he certainly doesn’t want to make a habit of it!

Xantippe, on further reflection, in order to sell our house, DH would insist on doing all of the projects that would make our home more liveable and then I’d be content to stay rather than sell. Who knows, if we got it ready, we still may sit on it long enough to enjoy it. Doubt he’ll buy it though until he finishes school or figures things out w/ his job.

Sad that people nowdays can consider 3 children “all these kids.” Both of my parents came from very large families, like 12 and 15 (of course some of these died as babies or young children) and I don’t think I ever heard anyone say “I didn’t sign up for all these kids!”

Very sad reflection on today’s society.

 

[thewanderer]

I’m not sure that his depression is that serious. I think the biggest underlying issue is: I didn’t sign up for the Catholic craziness (all these kids, so close together), therefore, I’m not participating in any of it. If you talk to him about doing anything - diy projects, taking the kids out - he thinks it’s too much work and therefore does not attempt it. Ask either of his brothers and they’ll tell you that he wasn’t raised w/ any responsibilities and has never been acclimated to physical labor. DH willingly admits after a finished project how good it feels, but he certainly doesn’t want to make a habit of it!

Xantippe, on further reflection, in order to sell our house, DH would insist on doing all of the projects that would make our home more liveable and then I’d be content to stay rather than sell. Who knows, if we got it ready, we still may sit on it long enough to enjoy it. Doubt he’ll buy it though until he finishes school or figures things out w/ his job.

I kind of gathered that you don’t think his depression is serious. But, seriously, do you fully understand how devestating an effect depression can have on someones life? Maybe you do, and maybe your husbands problems have nothing to do with depression. But maybe you are missing something and judging your husband too harshly. Perhaps you could do some reading on the subject to try and better understand what he is going through.

Even if you his behaviours have nothing to do with his depression, your attitude towards him is not a healthy attitude in a marriage. And, please understand that I am not saying this to attack you, it is possible that it is currently the only possible way for you to realistically view your husband, but that doesn’t make it a healthy attitude. I think it might help if you recognize that fact, even if your attitude truly cannot change until his does, if you don’t recognize that your current attitude is unhealthy then you might miss your husbands beginning efforts to change, you might have already missed such efforts. If you end up thinking of your current attitude as normal, healthy and good then it will be harder to recognize any efforts of change on your husbands part for what they are. And if he ever tries to change and still sees that you think of him and treat him as an irresponsible idiot then he could easily become discouraged and give up, and, perhaps he already has.

I don’t know the details of your particular marriage, but I’m just trying to throw out another point of view about what might be going on. You don’t want to end up contributing to a failed marriage in anyway, so make sure that you actually do do everything that you can to help your marriage.

God Bless

 

[Chantal25]

Yes, I can understand your frustration. My husband can be totally unaware of what is going on around him at times. I am not sure there is a cure for this, except to ask for what you need.

So true for many situation.

I am so sorry that you don’t feel supported. If your husband is cooperative with dialogue, then there is hope. If you cannot have a good healthy dialogue, then you need to seek for help because, it is so crucial for a good marriage.

If he spent a lot of time with computer, this could cause him to feel unmotivated. Many don’t realize the pollution from electromagnetic and especially very high frequency.

You must be so overwhelmed and tired yourself, good grace, i hope your husband will get it soon, so you can get the support you need.

I pray for you and your family!

 

[thewanderer]

And, well, just to add to what I’ve been saying, when it comes down to it you can’t change your husband. You can only change yourself. Yes, it sucks, but thats unfortunately just how life is. So while it might be true that your husband is at fault here through being irresponsible etc you can’t force him to change. All you can do is work on your own reaction and attitude towards him. Remember that when you got married your vow was to love him no matter what, in good times and in bad. Spend some time in prayer and silent reflection, see if there are any small changes you can make in yourself to make yourself a better spouse. I am obviously not advocating that you completely burn yourself out by becoming a slave to your husband or anything, of coursse there needs to be a balance, but instead of focusing on what your husband fails to do and comparing it with everything that you do, perhaps you could try to focus on what your husband does do, the reasons why you married him in the first place, and your marriage vows to him, as well as the ways in which you fail to live up to those vows rather than the other way around. I am confident that that will be much more helpful to your marriage than dwelling on his faults. Always remember “there but for the grace of God go I”.