That All May Be One

[Mickey]

“For me, being a Catholic means being in unity with the church that the apostles started, with the promise-bearing institution Christ charged with the mission of bringing God’s redemption forward in history. It doesn’t mean rejecting what I learned from Friends or the sense of God’s continuous presence in my life that Friends brought me to see. To me, the truths the Catholic Church defends and the truths that I found among Friends represent the two necessary poles of the Christian gospel–the corporate and outward (or sacramental) pole on the one side and the personal and inward pole on the other. These poles sometimes seem to be mutually exclusive and contradictory, but the truth is they are poles that need to be in constant contact and tension. It is the tension between them that makes the spiritual life dynamic–capable of stages, growth, and transformation.”

This is still confusing to me. The Apostolic Church encompasses the fullness of truth. You cannot say that Apostolic Christianity is a “corporate” and outward faith and that the Quakers represent a “personal , and inward pole”. To begin with, the sacraments are not outward meaningless symbols (if that is what you mean). The sacraments convey a material (human) and spiritual (divine) reality–just as Christ was both human and divine (hypostatic union). The inward and personal relationship with Jesus Christ subsists within the beauty and grace of the sacramental Church. Furthermore, my understanding is that the “friends” reject the idea of the sacraments as understood by the Catholic Church.

 

[Mickey]

Here for all of you is one of my favorite early Quaker quotes of Isaac Pennington: “Oh, be little, be little; and then thou wilt be content with little. And if thou feel now and then a check or a secret smiting–in that is the Father’s love; be not over-wise or over-eager in thy own willing, running, and desiring, and thou mayst feel it so and by degrees come to the knowledge of thy Guide, who will lead thee, step by step, in the path of life and teach thee to follow. . .Be still, and wait for light and strength and desire not to know or comprehend but to be known and comprehended in the love and life which seeks out, gathers, and preserves the lost sheep.”

And here are two of my favorite quotes by St Ignatius of Antioch— the disciple of the apostle St John the Evangelist:

“Consider those who hold heretical opinions with regard to the grace of Jesus Christ which hath come unto us, how opposite they are to the mind of God. They have no care for love, nor concerning the widow, nor concerning the orphan, nor concerning the afflicted, nor concerning him who is bound or loosed, nor concerning him who is hungry or thirsty. They refrain from the eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father of his goodness raised up”.

“It is reasonable for the future to be vigilant, and while we have yet time, to repent unto God. It is well to honour God and the bishop; he who honoureth the bishop, is honoured of God; he who doeth anything without the knowledge of the bishop, serveth the devil”.

St Ignatius of Antioch (letter to the Smyrnaeans)

 

[Publisher]

Since we’re all quoting…I like this quote from Philadelphia Yearly Meeting…to me this is the Heart of the Matter…if I am wrong I will be wrong for love’s sake…and God’s mercy is renewed each morning…we are loved with an everlasting love.

“As Friends we believe that love is the unifying force in human relations. Let us understand what brotherly love is and what it is not. Love is is not self-seeking; it is self-giving. Love does not try to make up a deficiency in that of God in another form an overabundance of divinity in ourselves; it opens us to the divine Light in Him and rejoices in it. Love does not mean agereeing on all questions of belief, values, or rules of conduct; it means accepting with humility and forvearance such differences as cannot be resloved by open and patient give-and-take. Love does not recreate our brother in our image; it recreates us both in relation to one another, united like limbs of one body yet each distinctly himself.”

 

[Cr8ton]

I understand your belief and position. If performing those rites and rituals bring you closer to Him, I think that is wonderful. For me, the One Baptism and One Church aren’t in question…I have been baptized into the Church by the Spirit…I will share with you in the joy of the faith in Christ we both share.

Amen, I agree whole heartedly with you Publisher.

 

[Cr8ton]

Thank you, friend.

The Holy sacraments of the Church not only help me in these areas, but assit me to fight against all the passions of this world.

Furthermore, It is the sacraments of the Church that manifest God’s saving energies in our lives. A life without the sacraments is like a life without God. One of the Church’s important functions besides preaching, teaching and caring for her children, is to make these sacraments available to her people.

God bless you on your journey.

It is the sacraments of the Church that manifest God’s saving energies in our lives? I can say in my life at the age of 22 I have had very real manifestations of God’s very presence in my life and it wasn’t at a catholic church or through any of those sacraments… unless perhaps you are saying it can be through a sacrament when the individual has no knowledge of the sacraments or what they do for him because in that case that would be me. God has worked in me without me being Catholic and until I feel moved to pursue those things I choose to continue to seek His face and let the Holy Spirit work in my life as He will. :]

 

[Mickey]

God has worked in me without me being Catholic and until I feel moved to pursue those things I choose to continue to seek His face and let the Holy Spirit work in my life as He will.

You have free will to choose.

Spiritus Ubi Vult Spirat.

 

[Mickey]

Here is another quote: From the saint who was a direct disciple of the holy Evangelist and Apostle Saint John:

Take ye heed, then, to have but one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to [show forth] the unity of His blood; one altar; as there is one bishop, along with the presbytery and deacons, my fellow-servants: that so, whatsoever ye do, ye may do it according to [the will of] God.
St Ignatius of Antioch to the Philadelphians

 

[dzheremi]

Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Saviour, did say that to love your neighbor as yourself is one of the two commandments on which hang all of the Law (Mark 12). It is a reflection of the first of these two commandments: To love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

To my way of thinking, the first of these two great commandments cannot be fully lived in the absence of the very real (not symbolic) sacraments, instituted by Christ himself and carried out today in a real, physical Church. So ultimately, while I think I can see where the anti-sacrament crowd is coming from, I must conclude that Mickey and the Saints are right, and the Loveydoveyans are wrong.

 

[StillWondering]

1. How can one be a Catholic AND and Quaker - I tell this story in a book I wrote back in the late 90s Leadings: A Catholic’s Journey Through Quakerismpublished by Baker Books in 2002** The best answer I have to this question is what I wrote there in the last chapter on pg. 139: “For me, being a Catholic means being in unity with the church that the apostles started, with the promise-bearing institution Christ charged with the mission of bringing God’s redemption forward in history. It doesn’t mean rejecting what I learned from Friends or the sense of God’s continuous presence in my life that Friends brought me to see. To me, the truths the Catholic Church defends and the truths that I found among Friends represent the two necessary poles of the Christian gospel–the corporate and outward (or sacramental) pole on the one side and the personal and inward pole on the other. These poles sometimes seem to be mutually exclusive and contradictory, but the truth is they are poles that need to be in constant contact and tension. It is the tension between them that makes the spiritual life dynamic–capable of stages, growth, and transformation.”

As a Catholic, there should be no greater fraternity, or brotherhood of friends, then that found when we partake the Eucharist, this one Sacrament takes us out of time and unites us as Catholics who are members of the body of Christ with all those billions of Catholic throughout history in heaven and those hundreds of millions of faithful Catholics who are alive. And this is a communion of souls where we are one.

Never having been a Quaker I cannot know how communed they are. It is certain that it cannot be like this. Not all Catholics may understand this community, but it is a real community made possible by Christ’s one and eternal sacrifice for us: the Sacrifice of the Mass. There should be no deeper connection between two individuals than this on this side of Heaven, yet this is a connection between billions and billions of human souls in one faith throughout time.

To be more direct, a true Christian seeks at the core of his being Christ’s eternal friendship and that communion with Christ. All other relationships flourish through this one relationship. A Christ-centered husband loves his wife not because of how wonderful she is but because God has saved her for him. The same for the wife. The same between brothers and sisters. If anyone puts a different relationship before Christ, such as a fraternity of friends as their source of communion, they have the relationship backwards. Remember the conversation between the gentile women and Jesus. The crowds that come to Jesus had this to say: “We no longer believe because of your word; for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is truly the savior of the world” (John 4: 42). While we are learning, others tell us about Christ. Once we have our eyes open like Bartemaus, we personally follow Christ. By being a member of the Quakers to have a brotherly relationship, you missed out on the fact that through Christ any relationship has meaning. Any without Christ is meaningless.

 

[Doxiemom]

I think it will not be possible to become truly one visible church until Christ returns. We hurt each other too much with our pride of who we are and who we are not. We are too proud of what we do and what we won’t do. We are too proud of Who our crosses have on them or Who isn’t on it anymore or whether we have or have not a cross at all.

Jesus is at the Door, His hand is ready on the knob. He is looking back, pleadingly, to the Father, asking "When? When can I return?’

“Look at them Father. My sheep are wandering around, looking for Me. They are not near each other at all. And the wolves are gathering ever closer. let me go to them. You gave all of them to Me”

We’ve made a mess of everything. As much as i love much of catholicism, it really is so bogged down with overthinking on everything. The Gosple of the Jesus Christ isn’t difficult to understand and observe.

And then we have new churches springing up on every corner because of some new little nuance of a particular theology.

When he returns and sits on the Throne of David in Jerusalem, then and only then we will be one. He will rule with a rod of iron and as King of kings and Lord of lords. I suspect we will live very happily in a very jewish life.

I can’t wait.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

How wonderful to see the various responses to my post. Let me see what I can do to reply. I love it that I had responses from Orthodox, Quaker and Catholic. Starting more or less from the beginning:

1. I cannot really know if the unity I think God wants us to have will be for this life or for the next, but I rather think it is about this life. Christ came that we “might have life and have it to the full” (John 10:10) And it is interesting when you go to that quote in John that it is followed by this: “. . .there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd” (10:16) So there are different “folds” in the world or in other worlds we know not of at all, but God knows them all and the important thing is that they listen for his voice.
2. How can one be a Catholic AND and Quaker - I tell this story in a book I wrote back in the late 90s Leadings: A Catholic’s Journey Through Quakerismpublished by Baker Books in 2002** The best answer I have to this question is what I wrote there in the last chapter on pg. 139: “For me, being a Catholic means being in unity with the church that the apostles started, with the promise-bearing institution Christ charged with the mission of bringing God’s redemption forward in history. It doesn’t mean rejecting what I learned from Friends or the sense of God’s continuous presence in my life that Friends brought me to see. To me, the truths the Catholic Church defends and the truths that I found among Friends represent the two necessary poles of the Christian gospel–the corporate and outward (or sacramental) pole on the one side and the personal and inward pole on the other. These poles sometimes seem to be mutually exclusive and contradictory, but the truth is they are poles that need to be in constant contact and tension. It is the tension between them that makes the spiritual life dynamic–capable of stages, growth, and transformation.”

It is true that some Friends do not identify themselves as Christian. Some are in rebellion against what they fear is excess certainty, loss of patience and love in those who seem so certain of their religious creeds. Some just don’t know that the “inward light” they try to stay in touch with is Christ. There is frustration among Friends who are deeply Christian at some of this, just as there is frustration in the Catholic Church with some Catholics who don’t seem to really get what is most profound in Catholicism.

1. The very long response I got (#19) seemed to focus on the legitimacy of the outward church that grew out of the community of followers Jesus had and that the apostles built. I strongly identify with that institutional entity but it took a long time for it to take on the form it has and it has changed a good deal over the years. I think the passage in Matthew that you use can have other meanings. There is some controversy over the use of the word “church” for the Greek ekklesia in Matthew 18:15-17. Some think the word “gathered or called community” gets at what existed then better. The Jerusalem and New Jerusalem bibles both translate it as follows:“But if he refuses to listen to these [the evidence of two or three witnesses], report it to the community; and if he refuses to listen to the community, treat him like a pagan or a tax collector.” (Matt.18:17) It is interesting you point to this because it is a very important passage to Friends (Quakers). It describes the way disagreements and animosities over faith issues - belief or behavior - should be dealt with. If there is a disagreement over something, you should try to work it out privately with the person. Only if this fails should you resort to taking people recognized as leaders to see if you can all work it out together Only when all this fails should the larger “community of believers” be resorted to and asked to separate the person from the community. But even if this happens, you should never forget how valuable and how precious that one is to God even though he/she is no longer part of the community.

…edited…]

I generally acknowledge that Matthew 18:15-17 should be viewed in relation to Matthew 5:10-12,

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. "

**And an example of the necessity of this contrast and balance is demonstrated by Micaiah and related in the O.T. in 1 Kings 22.

Concerning John 17, I have usually inferred that since, near the beginning of Christ’s speaking of unification, He also mentions His departure,** “(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.” ; and also since, near the end of speaking of unification, Christ also asks that the apostles be with Him, “(John 17:24) Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.” , that the unification He is referring to is perhaps an ultimate unification that is greater than is realizable – or even imaginable – in our present state of life.

 

[StillWondering]

Jesus at one time said: *Not one of them will I lose that has been given to me. (My paraphrasing.) *

I believe in Christ and so I believe his words. If Christ will give all to his flock and built a church to shepard over his flock, this Church is his and all who are true followers would seek this Church. I understand that not all will want to be in the Church the Christ built. Nor all will know.

Below I quoted Doxiemom:

I think it will not be possible to become truly one visible church until Christ returns. We hurt each other too much with our pride of who we are and who we are not. We are too proud of what we do and what we won’t do. We are too proud of Who our crosses have on them or Who isn’t on it anymore or whether we have or have not a cross at all.
…
We’ve made a mess of everything. As much as i love much of catholicism, it really is so bogged down with overthinking on everything. The Gosple of the Jesus Christ isn’t difficult to understand and observe.
…

If one cannot for all efforts believe nor intellectually know that Christ founded the Church that we now see as the Holy Catholic Church, then what has been said above does not apply for the poster. Because then a false church is not the one Christ founded. However, if one can know intellectually or by faith that Christ founded the Catholic Church, then it is pride that keeps one away. All the “over thinking on everything” is part of the true Church. And if one feels that the true Church is wrong, then one feels they know better then the Christ on what should be in the true Church. This Church could not be from Christ and is damaged by man if the gates of Hell can overcome this Church that Christ has built. But since Christ says that the gates of Hell will never overcome it. The Church that Christ has built is the one true Church. And if that is the same Church as the Catholic Church, then that’s the one we should submit to. If we feel that Church is the true Church and we do not like the human problems inside the Church then it is our own pride that is stopping us.

 

[Cr8ton]

StillWondering:
If one cannot for all efforts believe nor intellectually know that Christ founded the Church that we now see as the Holy Catholic Church, then what has been said above does not apply for the poster.

This is my position that I quoted you from.

I know no one can answer this for sure, but any more theories as to why the Holy Spirit wouldn’t convict believers that are non-Catholics to become Catholics?

 

[StillWondering]

This is my position that I quoted you from.

I know no one can answer this for sure, but any more theories as to why the Holy Spirit wouldn’t convict believers that are non-Catholics to become Catholics?

From my personal connection and understanding of God who has provided much for me, God does not seem to force our hands unless we ask him to. So many times I hope that God forces me to make the right choice and follow his will. But he does not unless I actively and openly submit to his will. When I realize this I pray to God telling him these are the thoughts I have but I trust that He knows and will what is best for me. So whatever I may think, I would ask him to take command and lead me.

How this applies to your particular situation? Without worrying about what the Holy Spirit is doing for others, Cr8ton, I ask that you visit a Catholic church. Next to the tabernacle is a lamp that tells us if inside the hosts are consecrated or not. If they are, Catholics can know that Christ is there. Simple take a moment and honestly offer to God your will and ask him to lead you to his true Church. Since Catholics are not witchcraft practitioners and God is everywhere, you should have the moral assurance that it is God you will be talking to. That day offer your will to God to lead you to the right Church. I feel confident that within 10 years max, you will be where you need to be. (I’m thinking more of 2-3 years instead of 10 years unless God has a lot of plans for you).

Edit Addition: Remember while it may be impossible for you to determine that the Catholic church is the one true Church founded by Christ, it is not impossible for God to lead you. For God, nothing is impossible. So when you give your will to God, you can connect to God’s will.

 

[Doxiemom]

So far God has not lead me out of the catholic church.

 

[Rene_Lape]

It is good to see the responses and discussion that has come from the question about unity in our large and very diverse Christian community. I know we are all in different places, not only in the communities we worship with day to day but in our faith lives - some of us just seeing ourselves as loyal to the institutional church we are “in” right now, some struggling to feel at home and find all the wealth of blessings Christ promised to those who followed him, some wondering how people could possibly question things we may see as so convincingly certain.

I must apologize to Mickey who saw my reference to the sacraments as somehow limited to an “outward” dimension. They are definitely not only outward to me either. I am often simply overwhelmed by the spiritual richness I find in the words we use every day in our mass, especially the part of the mass devoted to the eucharist. But even we Catholics describe the sacraments as “outward signs of inward grace”. Early Friends simply believed and experienced that the “inward grace” could also be powerfully received by simply opening oneself to God’s “immediate Spirit and power,” which they believed everyone had access to. Like Cr8ton, I too had powerful experiences of God’s presence in other places and in other contexts, and sometimes the “routines” of worship can seem dry. I would encourage him though that while they might seem dry now, at a later time in your life, you might well find great power in them. I think it is important for us to see that God’s Spirit and Power can be experienced by believers in their evangelical prayer gatherings, in the private meditation on the words of Scripture and in many other settings.

I was reading John this morning and again was moved by his words in chapter:
In the time of extreme anxiety just before he is to be betrayed and killed, he asks his Father to protect those he has gathered to be his, he prays that “they may be one, as we are one.” (11) Jesus continues his prayer. “I pray not only for these, but for those also who through their words will believe in me that’s us, guys - all of us, whatever denomination we are now part of] . May they all be one. Father, may they be one in us, as you are in me and I am in you, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. . .With me in them and you in me, may they be so completely one that the world will realize that it was you who sent me and that I have loved them as much as you loved me.” (20-23) “I have made your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and so that I may be in them.” (26) I think we make it vary hard for the world to see Christ in us and in our separate gatherings. But what I think it will take is not some sudden recognition that indeed one of those gatherings has it all right, but that one way or another WE ARE ONE.

I wish we would find some more pragmatic solution - like some kind of federation of Christian denominations - some new idea. This is what I pray for. I do not know that I have the solution myself, but where I feel led right now is to acknowledge my membership in the historic church and at the same time be a full participant in a Friends Meeting that seeks to live out the idea that Christ has come to be the living shepherd of his flock in a very immediate way. Maybe some people would want to be part of an evangelical community AND also one with the sacramental life of the Catholic Church.

 

[Mickey]

some of us just seeing ourselves as loyal to the institutional church we are “in” right now

You say you are Roman Catholic (at least partially anyway). Is this how you see your Church–as a mere institutional building? Your Church says that it is the visible Church of Jesus Christ. The same Church that Christ gave to the apostles. Do you not believe this?

But even we Catholics describe the sacraments as “outward signs of inward grace”.

That means both. Outward signs of a real and true inward grace.

I think it is important for us to see that God’s Spirit and Power can be experienced by believers in their evangelical prayer gatherings, in the private meditation on the words of Scripture and in many other settings.

Spiritus Ubi Vult Spirat.

I think we make it vary hard for the world to see Christ in us and in our separate gatherings. But what I think it will take is not some sudden recognition that indeed one of those gatherings has it all right, but that one way or another WE ARE ONE.

There is one Lord, one faith and one baptism. There is only one truth–not many truths.
Christ’s prayer for unity in the 17th chapter of St John is one of the most beautiful prayers in all of Sacred Scripture. Yet Judas betrays Him. St Peter denies Him (then repents), and many heresies materialized from those days until this very day.

I wish we would find some more pragmatic solution - like some kind of federation of Christian denominations - some new idea.

It is called syncretism and it is a heresy.

 

[Cr8ton]

It is good to see the responses and discussion that has come from the question about unity in our large and very diverse Christian community. I know we are all in different places, not only in the communities we worship with day to day but in our faith lives - some of us just seeing ourselves as loyal to the institutional church we are “in” right now, some struggling to feel at home and find all the wealth of blessings Christ promised to those who followed him, some wondering how people could possibly question things we may see as so convincingly certain.

I must apologize to Mickey who saw my reference to the sacraments as somehow limited to an “outward” dimension. They are definitely not only outward to me either. I am often simply overwhelmed by the spiritual richness I find in the words we use every day in our mass, especially the part of the mass devoted to the eucharist. But even we Catholics describe the sacraments as “outward signs of inward grace”. Early Friends simply believed and experienced that the “inward grace” could also be powerfully received by simply opening oneself to God’s “immediate Spirit and power,” which they believed everyone had access to. Like Cr8ton, I too had powerful experiences of God’s presence in other places and in other contexts, and sometimes the “routines” of worship can seem dry. I would encourage him though that while they might seem dry now, at a later time in your life, you might well find great power in them. I think it is important for us to see that God’s Spirit and Power can be experienced by believers in their evangelical prayer gatherings, in the private meditation on the words of Scripture and in many other settings.

I was reading John this morning and again was moved by his words in chapter:
In the time of extreme anxiety just before he is to be betrayed and killed, he asks his Father to protect those he has gathered to be his, he prays that “they may be one, as we are one.” (11) Jesus continues his prayer. “I pray not only for these, but for those also who through their words will believe in me that’s us, guys - all of us, whatever denomination we are now part of] . May they all be one. Father, may they be one in us, as you are in me and I am in you, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. . .With me in them and you in me, may they be so completely one that the world will realize that it was you who sent me and that I have loved them as much as you loved me.” (20-23) “I have made your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and so that I may be in them.” (26) I think we make it vary hard for the world to see Christ in us and in our separate gatherings. But what I think it will take is not some sudden recognition that indeed one of those gatherings has it all right, but that one way or another WE ARE ONE.

I wish we would find some more pragmatic solution - like some kind of federation of Christian denominations - some new idea. This is what I pray for. I do not know that I have the solution myself, but where I feel led right now is to acknowledge my membership in the historic church and at the same time be a full participant in a Friends Meeting that seeks to live out the idea that Christ has come to be the living shepherd of his flock in a very immediate way. Maybe some people would want to be part of an evangelical community AND also one with the sacramental life of the Catholic Church.

I agree with you brother.

 

[Rene_Lape]

On the question of syncretism, I have submitted an inquiry to the apologists but I can find no specific disavowal of the practice. In fact many Protestant religious groups would say the Catholic Church is the master of syncretism. Many church holy days (holidays) - Christmas (see newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm), Easter, All Souls, have incorporated pagan ideas or customs or dates. I don’t have a problem with this, but a good many Christian denominations do. Quakers, Puritans avoided Christmas for many years. Then there are the many ceremonial customs the church has adopted over the years that stem from outside the apostolic community. The Catholic Encyclopedia has a pretty thorough analysis of the practice of using candles, another custom imported from the outside: newadvent.org/cathen/09244b.htm.

Syncretism is usually associated with the practice of incorporating rather “outward” or superficial elements of “pagan” (non-Christian/Jewish) practice into our church ‘culture’. But the syncretism I am talking about involves taking different cultural approaches to authentic Christian belief and trying to see if some compromises on style of worship might not put a few cracks in the walls that separate us. I think some of this is already happening - with the introduction of charismatic masses in the 60s and probably other more evangelical style forms of worship, especially in those parts of the world where the Catholic Church is losing people (i.e. Brazil). I would suggest that sitting in silence and opening oneself to the teaching presence of Christ in us is also a powerful way of living out our faith.

Here’s another Penington quote from his book The Light Within:
O that I might now be joined to him, and he alone might live in me!* *And so, the the willingness which God had wrought in me in this day of his power to my soul, I gave up to be instructed, exercised and led by him, in the waiting for and feeling of his holy seed, that all might be wrought out of me which could not live ih the seed, but would be hindering the dwelling and reigning of the seed in me, while it remained and had **power.

 

[Mickey]

In fact many Protestant religious groups would say the Catholic Church is the master of syncretism.

Really? How so?

Many church holy days (holidays) - Christmas (see newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm), Easter, All Souls, have incorporated pagan ideas or customs or dates.

That is not the heresy of syncretism.

Syncretism is usually associated with the practice of incorporating rather “outward” or superficial elements of “pagan” (non-Christian/Jewish) practice into our church ‘culture’.

That is not the heresy of syncretism

But the syncretism I am talking about involves taking different cultural approaches to authentic Christian belief and trying to see if some **compromises **on style of worship might not put a few cracks in the walls that separate us. I think some of this is already happening - with the introduction of charismatic masses in the 60s and probably other more evangelical style forms of worship,

Compromises? Cracks in the wall? **That **is the heresy of syncretism.

“For men have fallen away from the right Faith… And formerly the heretics were manifest, but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise, for men have turned from the truth and have itching ears (II Tim. 4: 3).”
St Cyril of Jerusalem