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GEddie
Guest
Not that I know of.
But there is also no movement to convince that Catholic membership in KKK is ok.
ICXC NIKA
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But there is also no movement to convince that Catholic membership in KKK is ok.
ICXC NIKA
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TEPO
Guest
If you’re claiming that Masons don’t worship Hiram Abiff, then he at least represents the crafts emergence into the world… Have you been to Blue Lodge lately?
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Traditionalism
Guest
Catholics in America have always opposed the KKK, because the KKK is anti-Catholic. Catholics can’t join the KKK, as the KKK won’t allow them. It’s never been an issue because unlike the Masons, they make their anti-Catholic beliefs known. The masons hide it, and try to subvert our members, while the KKK just outright says they hate us.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I think enemies give us stability.
For example, who would have even heard of the Hatfield and McCoy families, if they didn’t have a famous feud going on for 30 years.
Just like when Adam made the choice to open up “Pandora’s Box” that was the tree, evil had to come to offset good because the world is comprised of both.
Like the Protestant Reformation was God’s diversification strategy. Each branch keeps the others in check, and provides exercise and training material for Church Militant. I wonder if the Church is actually stronger because of Luther? More widely known?
So it is with the Church and the Masons. This gap shall never be bridged, because the fight itself provides energy and understanding, and the motive to dominate each other keeps them both in top form.
Nothing will send an army into atrophy like not having anybody to fight.
Alan
For example, who would have even heard of the Hatfield and McCoy families, if they didn’t have a famous feud going on for 30 years.
Just like when Adam made the choice to open up “Pandora’s Box” that was the tree, evil had to come to offset good because the world is comprised of both.
Like the Protestant Reformation was God’s diversification strategy. Each branch keeps the others in check, and provides exercise and training material for Church Militant. I wonder if the Church is actually stronger because of Luther? More widely known?
So it is with the Church and the Masons. This gap shall never be bridged, because the fight itself provides energy and understanding, and the motive to dominate each other keeps them both in top form.
Nothing will send an army into atrophy like not having anybody to fight.
Alan
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ess1113a
Guest
There doesnt have to be a movement, lets just look at the absence of any edicts or papal statements. Can you find one bishop that has openly renounced the KKK by name?
You have to admit that these extremist are quite prevalent and populous and yet no official statement from any diocese or parish condemning the membership in such an organization. Bizarre and hypocritical
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ess1113a
Guest
I have attended blue lodge recently and I will argue that point with you. I have sat in innumerable lodges in all three degrees and there has never even approached the degree of worship for Hiram Abiff or any other person or figure.
The biblical character is used as an example of upright conduct during the building of King Solomons temple and he is applauded for his determination to stick to his oath even to his own death.
I am not calling names and I am not casting repute on anyones character but you were either in the wrong lodge or some bizarre cult but worshipping Hiram Abiff is ludicrous. Not in the seven states I have visited. Cant speak for the international Freemasonry or the other 44 states but never in my presence.
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ess1113a
Guest
Just because a Catholic cant belong to the KKK it shouldnt be condemned? What a twisted logic.
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GEddie
Guest
There is no need to condemn membership in an organization that no sane Catholic would join (as they persecute Catholics), even if they were allowed to. Unlike the Masons, which have a secretive glamor that attracts Catholics to them.
ICXC NIKA
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TEPO
Guest
…and as for Tubal-Cain…? The Master Masons revealing word to his brothers…?
"**The dishonored artificer could not with draw himself from the scene of his discomfiture. Suddenly he heard a strange voice coming from above and crying, ‘Hiram, Hiram, Hiram;’ He raised his eyes and beheld a gigantic human figure. The apparition continued,
Come, my son, be without fear, I have rendered thee incombustible, cast thyself into the flames.' Hiram threw himself into the furnace, and where others would have found death, he tasted ineffable delights nor could he, drawn by an irresistible force, leave it, and asked him that drew him into the abyss, Who art thou?’ I am the father of thy fathers,' was the answer, I am Tubal-Cain.’"Tubal-Cain introduced Hiram into the sanctuary of fire, and into the presence of Cain, to author of his race. When Hiram was about to be restored to earth, Tubal-Cain gave him the hammer with which he himself had wrought great things, and said to him, `Thanks to this hammer and the help of the genii of fire, thou shalt speedily accomplish the work left unfinished through man’s stupidity and malignity.’ Hiram did not hesitate to test the wonderful efficacy of the precious instrument, and the dawn saw the great mass of bronze cast. The artist felt the most lively joy. The Queen exulted.****
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TEPO
Guest
–Tu
– Bal
– Cain
–Tubalcain–
(this is how Tubalcain is spoken between two Master Masons -each one takes turns pronouncing the syllables… It’s disgusting really.
– Bal
– Cain
–Tubalcain–
(this is how Tubalcain is spoken between two Master Masons -each one takes turns pronouncing the syllables… It’s disgusting really.
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gamewell45
Guest
Good, i’m glad we have that resolved. The way it was writtern might have given people a different idea then what you meant.
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gamewell45
Guest
I have to respectfully disagree with you; Freemasons don’t hate Catholics; in fact approximately 40% of my lodge is composed of Catholics and a couple of them are also Knights of Columbus!
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
May they realize the great error in their ways.
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Traditionalism
Guest
No it’s not. Becoming a mason automatically excommunicates you(unless you argue for anti-traditional laws, which then say you still aren’t allow to get communion if you are a Mason). Masonry is made to destroy Catholicism. Read The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita.
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Brother_Steve
Guest
The big problem is that the Alta Vendita isn’t now never was a Masonic organization. No matter how badly people want it to be its not. BUT if you wanted to prove your point just find a Regular main stream Grand Lodge that supports your position and you have the smoking gun. The Carbonari had strong similarities to Freemasonry, and so the document is seen by some as a Masonic document, the problem is just because some one sees similarities doesn’t make it so. Carbonari was the name of a secret political society that emerged during the nineteenth century in Italy. Again the second problem is that Freemasonry as an organization (Regular Grand Lodges) does not take any political position.
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Traditionalism
Guest
It does however, it takes an anti-Catholic position.
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Brother_Steve
Guest
Allow me to quote [URL="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13human.htm":
We also see the tone of the Bull on democracy:
"The principles of social science follow.** Here naturalists teach that men have all the same rights, and are perfectly equal in condition; that every man is naturally independent; that no one has a right to command others;** that it is tyranny to keep men subject to any other authority than that which emanates from themselves. Hence the people are sovereign; those who rule have no authority but by the commission and concession of the people; so that they can be deposed, willing or unwilling, according to the wishes of the people. The origin of all rights and civil duties is in the people or in the State, which is ruled according to the new principles of liberty. The State must be godless; **no reason why one religion ought to be preferred to another all to be held in the same esteem. **
(April 20 1884), “Now, the fundamental doctrine of the naturalists, which they sufficiently make known by their very name, is that human nature and human reason ought in all things to be mistress and guide. Laying this down, they care little for duties to God, or pervert them by erroneous and vague opinions. For they deny that anything has been taught by God; they allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by the human intelligence, nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority.”
We also see the tone of the Bull on democracy:
"The principles of social science follow.** Here naturalists teach that men have all the same rights, and are perfectly equal in condition; that every man is naturally independent; that no one has a right to command others;** that it is tyranny to keep men subject to any other authority than that which emanates from themselves. Hence the people are sovereign; those who rule have no authority but by the commission and concession of the people; so that they can be deposed, willing or unwilling, according to the wishes of the people. The origin of all rights and civil duties is in the people or in the State, which is ruled according to the new principles of liberty. The State must be godless; **no reason why one religion ought to be preferred to another all to be held in the same esteem. **
- " … they preach and maintain the full separation of (the) Church from the State. So law and GOVERNMENT are wrested from the wholesome and divine virtue of the Catholic Church."
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TEPO
Guest
Two things:
1.) the Pope was not necessarily condemning the things you’ve pointed out, rather he was assessing the situation openly. Something the Church is good at -being open.
2.) the Popes main problem was that Spirituality would suffer under a new system that divided the Church and the State… He was correct.
…but really, the Pope and politics have little to do with freemasonry. The lodges only serve to make men “better”, and have NOTHING to do with common “goals”, or “ideals” such as the organization of societies… At least that’s what every Mason has told me, and Im sure they were being honest with me.
So surely you’re not claiming that the Masons are responsible for freedom just because a few people who fought for freedom happened to also be Masons… There were many others my friend, many others including Catholics.
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TEPO
Guest
So according to Masonic legend, did Tubal-Cain take Hiram Abiff down to hell, and then arm him with a hammer before sending him back into the world…? …and it worked good because it came from hell…?
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Brother_Steve
Guest
Its easy to just post idle rumors … but now prove it my friend. Cite Masonic Grand Lodge support for your post.So according to Masonic legend, did Tubal-Cain take Hiram Abiff down to hell, and then arm him with a hammer before sending him back into the world…? …and it worked good because it came from hell…?
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