That Old Freemason Question...

[AlanFromWichita]

Hope you had a blessed Assumption.

I did, thank you! My wife and I made it in time for confession and then noon Mass at the hospital only 1/2 mile from here and they even have good parking situation.

Alan

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

You really havent asked any points, thats the most confusing part of listening to your pointless diatribes.
Hope you had a blessed Assumption.

I did, I went to a vigil mass, a morning mass and in a few hours going to an EF low mass. I had a full Assumption.

However, as to my previous comment, allow me to clarify. When I asked about what you meant about the nun you never responded. Then you denied that you even addressed my query. Then after I showed that you did address me you decided to “disaffiliate” yourself with me (which you didn’t end up doing) and insulted me.

My other points had to do with the arguments from the popes. Their thoughts may be pointless to you, but the faithful should remember that the Holy Father is indeed the successor of Peter. We should recognize His Holiness’ authority and stray from those organizations and groups that are condemned.

 

[joyous_revert]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe:

In 1912, he was sent to Kraków, and in the same year to a college in Rome, where he studied philosophy, theology, mathematics, and physics. He earned a doctorate in philosophy in 1915 at the Pontifical Gregorian University, and the doctorate in theology in 1919 at the Pontifical University of St. Bonaventure. During his time as a student, he witnessed vehement demonstrations against Popes St. Pius X and Benedict XV in Rome during an anniversary celebration by the Freemasons. According to St. Maximilian,

They placed the black standard of the “Giordano Brunisti” under the windows of the Vatican. On this standard the archangel, St. Michael, was depicted lying under the feet of the triumphant Lucifer. At the same time, countless pamphlets were distributed to the people in which the Holy Father was attacked shamefully.[8][9]

This event inspired Saint Kolbe to organize the Militia Immaculata, or Army of Mary, to work for conversion of sinners and enemies of the Catholic Church, specifically the Freemasons, through the intercession of the Virgin Mary.

Call me weird, but I don’t think a SAINT is going to lie about something like this.

 

[cmodrmac]

a lot of really crazy comments - If the Church says no -the Church says no-a Catholic can either join the Masons and accept excommunication or not join

THe Masons run children’s hospitals (the Shriners) and do a great deal of positive work in communities-by the way many eastern Orthodox are Masons at least in this part of Florida-

The K of C are not really a parallel organization -

lets not talk about the Odd Fellows"""""""

 

[GEddie]

Although I am completely in assent with the Vatican on this issue, and don’t see what in FM is worth all the trouble for Catholics; still I am puzzled:

If the FM are so bad, why are so many Protestants (with the conspicuous exception of Jack Chick) and, and the last poster said, the Greek Orthodox, apparently ok with them?

God Bless, ICXC NIKA

 

[Sonic]

If the FM are so bad, why are so many Protestants (with the conspicuous exception of Jack Chick) and, and the last poster said, the Greek Orthodox, apparently ok with them?

There are a whole slew of Protestant denominations who have spoken out against masonry in much the same way as the Catholic Church. Also, the Orthodox Bishops of Greece officially condemned freemasonry in 1933.

See Chapter IX of William J Whalen’s book Christianity and American Freemasonry:

Preview available here:

books.google.com/books?id=fNQmTsgp_ucC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&ots=ac_hAahHzc&dq=%22Protestantism+and+Eastern+Orthodox+Criticism+of+Masonry%22

 

[bitznbitez]

If the FM are so bad, why are so many Protestants (with the conspicuous exception of Jack Chick) and, and the last poster said, the Greek Orthodox, apparently ok with them?

To understand perhaps ponder the dual use of the same seal by a predecessor to the lodges and the prince who gave the seal to Luther that Luther subsequently used and came up with his own personal symbology for. Whether he was aware of the alternate use or not is unclear, its equally possible the adoption of the seal went the other way with them adopting the seal of Luther. In any case an overlap from the early times is observed.

“Instruct the people as to the artifices used by societies of this kind in seducing men and enticing them into their ranks, and as to the depravity of their opinions and the wickedness of their acts.” – Humanum Genus Pope Leo XIII

If you want to understand read this work under imprimatur and with a letter from Pope Leo XIII himself thanking them for the presentation and encouraging the reading of the volume. It explains a great deal of Western History.

One can still argue about whether one should be a Catholic and a lodge member after reading this book, and after knowing what the Church has declared about it. But then one can argue about anything if one is not called to obedience.

 

[sce9cmd]

If one wishes to abide by the rules of the catholic Church by quitting freemasonry they need to confess. However, the confession is only valid if the sinner is truely repentent. If the Church cannot explain what is wrong with freemasonry one cannot truely repent. Surely this is an unsatisfactory state of affairs?

 

[sce9cmd]

To understand perhaps ponder the dual use of the same seal by a predecessor to the lodges and the prince who gave the seal to Luther that Luther subsequently used and came up with his own personal symbology for. Whether he was aware of the alternate use or not is unclear, its equally possible the adoption of the seal went the other way with them adopting the seal of Luther. In any case an overlap from the early times is observed.

“Instruct the people as to the artifices used by societies of this kind in seducing men and enticing them into their ranks, and as to the depravity of their opinions and the wickedness of their acts.” – Humanum Genus Pope Leo XIII

If you want to understand read this work under imprimatur and with a letter from Pope Leo XIII himself thanking them for the presentation and encouraging the reading of the volume. It explains a great deal of Western History.

One can still argue about whether one should be a Catholic and a lodge member after reading this book, and after knowing what the Church has declared about it. ** But then one can argue about anything if one is not called to obedience**.

The problem some have with the bolded section above is that the Church has been wrong in the past; the Galileo example was quoted earlier in this thread. Therefore there is a chance that the Church could be wrong again so a convincing argument needs to be made against membership of the Freemasons. Just saying that the Church says no without giving any basis for that conclusion means that current freemasons cannot quit and give valid confessions. They will remain in a state of mortal sin.

 

[TEPO]

Let me try.

To follow Freemasonry is to try to lasso God and pull Him down to our worldliness. I can assure anyone here that God has little to nothing to do with what goes on here on planet earth, otherwise we would be seeing Him… But we don’t. We’ve seen His Spirit and His Son, but He will not come to us.

Freemasonry tries to put the peices of life together according to what they have here on earth, equating this with Glory. But there is no Glory here.

The Catholic Church teaches us how to know God, which in turn leads us down the only path that He has cleared for us. But unlike freemasonry, this path is not of this world. Our point of reflection should always be that there is no amount of worldly goodness that we can achieve to please Him. There is nothing here for us to reach Him.

 

[TEPO]

When we attend the Holy Mass, we’re praying on Him, whom we cannot have.

 

[TEPO]

Just saying that the Church says no without giving any basis for that conclusion means that current freemasons cannot quit and give valid confessions. They will remain in a state of mortal sin.

You do realize that Freemasonry is a “secret” society, right -which means that every time the Church makes a statement about the Masons our argument cannot be backed up with any credible proof… It’s all “hear-say”. In turn, those who do make claims are accused of being “conspiracy theorists”.

Ultimately, those who ignore the Church on matters of faith and morals (not astrology and morals), must pay a very high price for it. They will not be able to claim that they were tricked!

I can assure you that God hates what Freemasonry does.

 

[TEPO]

If one wishes to abide by the rules of the catholic Church by quitting freemasonry they need to confess. However, the confession is only valid if the sinner is truely repentent. If the Church cannot explain what is wrong with freemasonry one cannot truely repent. Surely this is an unsatisfactory state of affairs?

Maybe if we could get an honest answer on why Masons acted out as they did in post #122, perhaps then we could have an honest conversation. Until then, we’re left swinging at phantoms, and uncovering multiple layers of cover-ups -so many that we never know when we’ve reached bottom.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

If one wishes to abide by the rules of the catholic Church by quitting freemasonry they need to confess. However, the confession is only valid if the sinner is truely repentent. If the Church cannot explain what is wrong with freemasonry one cannot truely repent. Surely this is an unsatisfactory state of affairs?

But the Church HAS explained what is wrong and immoral with Freemasonry. Time and time again, in fact. I’ve already quoted what the Popes have to say about the matter.

 

[TEPO]

But the Church HAS explained what is wrong and immoral with Freemasonry. Time and time again, in fact. I’ve already quoted what the Popes have to say about the matter.

I guess some are waiting for the Church to tell every single detail about the secrets of Freemasonry throughout all of history and then predict its future, as if the Church is a giant fortune cookie for the Masons to play with. If catholic Masons want to see a miracle before they believe the Church, they might want to reconsider… God doesn’t appreciate men putting Him to the test according to the Bible.

 

[gamewell45]

You do realize that Freemasonry is a “secret” society, right -which means that every time the Church makes a statement about the Masons our argument cannot be backed up with any credible proof… It’s all “hear-say”. In turn, those who do make claims are accused of being “conspiracy theorists”.

Contrary to what many may think or be told, Freemasonry is not a secret society; they have some passwords and grips so they know who is a real mason and who is not. They are more open to the public then some meetings of the board of directors of corporations.

 

[TEPO]

Contrary to what many may think or be told, Freemasonry is not a secret society; they have some passwords and grips so they know who is a real mason and who is not. They are more open to the public then some meetings of the board of directors of corporations.

Aside from the handshakes and grips, are there any other things that Masons must keep to themselves…? If so, without telling me exactly what they are, what other “types” of things are kept hidden, and about how many are there total in number…? Roughly speaking.

Also, why should Freemasonry not be considered a secret society?

 

[gamewell45]

why should Freemasonry not be considered a secret society?

A secret society is in the eyes of the beholder; One could say that say that the Board of Directors of Corporations are secret societies because certain discussions or decisions made are kept secret by those present; likewise one could allude that various fraternal organizations such as odd-fellows, Freemasons, K of C, Moose Lodge, etc are secret societies because there are certain modes of recognition given and only members may be present at certain meetings.

 

[partypilot1]

A Christian man has a duty to strive for excellence in all his endeavors because everything he does is for the Lord. It is clear that a man can’t both be a good Catholic and a good Mason. Pointing this out isn’t casting the first stone but merely trying to help remove the stumbling block.
Casting a stone implies condemning a person for their actions, whereas removing a stumbling block condemns the action to help the person.

 

[TEPO]

A secret society is in the eyes of the beholder; One could say that say that the Board of Directors of Corporations are secret societies because certain discussions or decisions made are kept secret by those present; likewise one could allude that various fraternal organizations such as odd-fellows, Freemasons, K of C, Moose Lodge, etc are secret societies because there are certain modes of recognition given and only members may be present at certain meetings.

Ahah, so likewise in a Freemason lodge, there must also be discussions or decisions" made that are “kept secret by those present”.

So are these decisions being made by those Freemasons, who through their own undisclosed beliefs, affecting the lives of other people who may or may not share those same goals? I’d say that’s a pretty big secret.