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PapaSquash
Guest
I always have, actually.
Still, it’s not OK to use “gay” as stupid. Gay as efffeminate or homosexual, well that’s the meaning that the gay community took for the word.
If a man carries a purse and his buddy says “that’s gay” he is accurately communicating the point that he is trying get across.
If somebody calls me a papist becasue I run fish specials at my restaurant on Fridays, it says what they mean.
Why is it bad to say what you mean?
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Snugglebugmom
Guest
Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make.
When using a term that’s commonly used to indicate a certain group of people to say something negative, it is derogatory.
Calling someone who is homosexual “gay” is not a derogatory term, somehow that has come to be its meaning. Homosexuals refer to themselves as gay. If nothing else, it is a lot shorter and easier to say.
By using that same term to indicate something is lame, it becomes derogatory. Where I come from, Holland, there is a term that translates to “Roman tricks” (Roomse streken) which refers to sneaky, underhanded behaviors. (The word Roman being used as in “Roman Catholic”, not “of Rome”.) It is derogatory, not because of the inherent meaning of the words obviously, but the intention behind them.
I guess it’s all in the intention.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I get what you’re saying, and I agree that we should do our best not to speak to others in a derogatory way. I see no reason to cling to one’s fondness for a phrase at the expense of other people’s feelings.
However, just for the sake of discussion, I will say that I find your choice of examples interesting. Being gay is not a religion or nationality. Would I be offended if someone condescendingly said “Man, that’s so straight!” or “Man, that’s so hetero!”? Not really. But then, I am not offended when people joke about my nationality either. I would be offended by someone speaking that way about being Catholic, though. That’s because being Catholic is part of my identity. Being born of a certain nationality or in a certain geographic region is not.
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Joe_5859
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Here’s a question. Does anyone hear the phrase “That’s so retarded” used anymore? It seems like that was popular years ago. So popular that there was a move away from using the term “retarded” in favor of terms like “mentally disabled” or “mentally challenged.”
It occurs to me, though, that I haven’t heard that phrase used as much recently. Maybe it’s because I hang out with a more reputable crowd of people (
) or maybe they were successful in their campaign to make that phrase taboo. I suppose the anti-“That’s so gay” crowd can take a page from their playbook.
It occurs to me, though, that I haven’t heard that phrase used as much recently. Maybe it’s because I hang out with a more reputable crowd of people (
) or maybe they were successful in their campaign to make that phrase taboo. I suppose the anti-“That’s so gay” crowd can take a page from their playbook.
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elvisman
Guest
**I find the term, “Pro-Choice” infinitely more offensive.
Why not “Pro-Death”?
Also - I think that if the “anti-That’s so gay” crowed wants the world to cease using this as a derogatory remark, they should lead by example and stop attacking everybody who doesn’t agree with their agenda . . .
Why not “Pro-Death”?
Also - I think that if the “anti-That’s so gay” crowed wants the world to cease using this as a derogatory remark, they should lead by example and stop attacking everybody who doesn’t agree with their agenda . . .
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Snugglebugmom
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Also - I think that if the "anti-That’s so gay" crowed wants the world to cease using this as a derogatory remark, they should lead by example and stop attacking everybody who doesn’t agree with their agenda . . .
I wasn’t aware I was attacking anyone, but if that is how it came across, then I apologize.
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cargau
Guest
Personally, I don’t think its really that big a deal. When someone does something and they are told that “That is so gay” it conjures up an image that they are being feminine. When you hear the words, do you really think you are hurting a homosexual’s feelings? Or, do you see the picture of a guy behaving like a girl? I don’t even think of a homosexual!
Most men do not aspire to be feminine. Thus, saying “That is gay” is really just a manner of correcting one’e behavior.
It would be like saying “you’re such a slug”, or 'that was idiotic" or “you’re a jerk”. All of these can be ways of offering helpful advice.
We have become an overly sensitive society. Everybody needs to just lighten up!
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Roman_Army
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Exactly! You hit the nail right on the head. I would not be offended if someone said “that’s so straight,” to mean lame, weird, or stupid. So, why should a gay guy be offended of it? Perhaps some gays even use the expression themselves like that.
Also, to say “that’s so gay” is derogatory is to say being embarrassed, ashamed, or even laughing about being perceived as gay is also derogatory. Would a straight guy not be embarrassed, laugh, or blush if he accidentally made others think that he’s gay? I remember in college a straight guy who when expressing he prefers fruit candy accidentally comment “I’m a fruity guy,” and we all laughed because it sounded like he was coming out of the closet admitting he was a homosexual, though he wasn’t. Was that derogatory? I think not. The word gay is simply being used in the expression “That’s so gay” as awkward, odd, strange, lame, etc. It’s used in any rare awkward event, just like being a homosexual is abnormal and rare. Now, I have always viewed myself as abnormal or weird, would I be offended if someone used weird to say “That is so weird,” no. The word is not used to denote me, it’s simply used in a different sense, the meaning is changed. Also, would a handicapped person be offended if we used the word lame to say something was not funny or was boring? Would a mentally disabled person be offended when someone uses the word stupid or idiot in a different sense? No. Would a prostitute be offended if a parent used the word prostitute to say “Put some clothes on, you look like a prostitute!” when condemning their daughter’s immodesty in dress? No. I guess it depends on whether you see homosexuality as a normal distinctive human trait as the color of one’s skin and philosophical convictions, or see it as a rare disordered act and abnormal disposition.
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elvisman
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It was actually aimed more at the Homosexual activist contingent - not you personally.
I wasn’t aware I was attacking anyone, but if that is how it came across, then I apologize.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I do not think it means what you think it means. It’s hard to find a site that gives a definition that I’m comfortable linking here but I remembered this blog post by Eve Tushnet (the post titled “Playground Twist” from 2004).
My bold. It can’t mean effeminate if it’s used to descibe something that is “butch” but something they don’t like.
I’ve heard this comment quite a few times unfortunately and each time the person (mostly teens and preteens) saying it is indicating dislike of whatever and adding a slur that makes in hard for others to disagree (Heaven forbid someone calls them gay!)
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Bruised_Reed
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Did gays appropriate it for gays or was it imposed on them and it stuck?Exactly. So why did they appropriate “gay”? Homosexual works just fine. I find it offensive that they use “Gay”, as it was a perfectly good word before it’s meaning got changed.
(…)
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Joe_5859
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It seems that people are talking about two different meanings of the phrase:
*]“That’s so gay” = “That’s so lame/stupid”; and
*]“That’s so gay” = “That’s rather effeminate”
Is one meaning less derogatory than the other? I’ve heard it used to mean both.
An interesting aside, isn’t the word “lame” itself yet another example of a word first used to describe a marginalized segment of the population (those with disabled limbs) and later used to denote something less than desireable? I guess it’s part of our nature to do that with our language.
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Roman_Army
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Nope. The word “gay” was hijacked by the homosexual activists as in “I’m happy to have sex with the same gender.” It expresses their openness, happiness, and pride in their deviant sexuality. You don’t hear the Church using the word “gay” to describe people of same-sex attraction. They simply use the proper words homosexual or same-sex attraction, since it is not something to be proud of or happy about anymore than a lame or blind person should be happy about not seeing or not being able to walk. I myself suffer depression and anxiety and am being treated for it, should I be happy and proud of that? If I were I would not complain about it and would not seek treatment in the first place. But, neither does it mean that I’m ashamed of it.
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Bruised_Reed
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It seems that people are talking about two different meanings of the phrase:
*]“That’s so gay” = “That’s so lame/stupid”; and
*]“That’s so gay” = “That’s rather effeminate”
Is one meaning less derogatory than the other? I’ve heard it used to mean both.
An interesting aside, isn’t the word “lame” itself yet another example of a word first used to describe a marginalized segment of the population (those with disabled limbs) and later used to denote something less than desireable? I guess it’s part of our nature to do that with our language.
Now that I think about it I have heard it used both ways. And I still don’t think they are saying effeminate but something that is stereotypically something someone who is gay (or lesbian) would do or wear or whatever. None of the lesbian slang seems really stick maybe cause it’s more gender specific and lesbianism is more palatable in society.
And those commercials? The “knock it off” part? Make me want to start saying “it’s so gay”! You knock it off!
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jmcrae
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That would be the bomb.
Lujack;5675282:
I thought it was the 1920s … ? It happened at a concert of Judy Garland, when she was performing at Carnegie Hall. She actually used the word “gay” as a euphemism for looking too girly, but it got co-opted to mean a man who looks/dresses like a woman, and from there got to refer to a homosexual man. (This is also why homosexual persons are euphemistically referred to as “Friends of Dorothy,” referring to her role as “Dorothy” in The Wizard of Oz.)
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Bruised_Reed
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When did this happen?
Do you have a source for this? Does it really have to do with their sexuality? Perhaps it is related to the flamboyance some display.
Of course not, but does that have anything to do with the entymology of the the word?
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WillieWonka
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You don’t hear the Church using the word “straight” to describe heterosexuals either. When was that perfectly good word hijacked by the heterosexual activists?
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Bruised_Reed
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You know, it typos like that really bug me. Etymologyetymologyetymologyetymologyetymologyetymology.
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Newbie2
Guest
I hear kids using it all the time. Seems to me there was a period when it went away or at least decreased, then came back. Maybe it’s a regional thing ??Here’s a question. Does anyone hear the phrase “That’s so retarded” used anymore? It seems like that was popular years ago. So popular that there was a move away from using the term “retarded” in favor of terms like “mentally disabled” or “mentally challenged.”
It occurs to me, though, that I haven’t heard that phrase used as much recently. Maybe it’s because I hang out with a more reputable crowd of people (
I think it was appropriated by gays, and that would make sense since “fag”, at least in the US, has been used as a derogatory term for homosexuals for at least as long as “gay”. I’ve never heard any gay person say, “I’m a fag”.
Of course, in the UK, fag means something entirely different.
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