The 10 Commandments and islam

[Jay53]

J K, thanks for your poitive reply. you said: but Christ is the son of God.

My question was, “Who told you that?” When was this news broken in the world for the first time that Jesus was not the son of Joseph but he was the son of God? in what year? and at what age of Jesus?

I’m not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but I’ll give it anyway.

John 6:41-47

The Jews therefore murmured about him because he had said, “I am the bread that has come down from heaven,” And they kept saying, “Is this not Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How, then, does he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

In answer therefore Jesus said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves, No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, And they all shall be taught of God. Everyone who has listened to the Father, and has learned comes to me; not that anyone has seen the Father except him who is from God, he has seen the Father. Amen, Amen, I say to you, he who believes in me has life everlasting.”

This occurs just prior to Simon Peter confessing that he knows that Jesus is the Son of God (when many of the disciples left Jesus after he told them they must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood):

John 6:68-70
Jesus therefore said to the Twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” Simon Peter therefore answered. “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast words of everlasting life, and we have come to believe and to know that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.”

 

[Jay53]

In getting back to the OP’s question, how is having sex with what your “right hand possesses” not considered adultery? I have taken this phrase to mean not a spouse, but a captive woman (and I believe she may be either married or unmarried.) And, incidentally, why would a married slave woman want to have sex with her “owner” if she already has a spouse.

1. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

1. If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

Also incidentally, these verses seem to condone slavery. What’s up with that?

 

[inJESUS]

Ahmadis tend to reject Islamic tradition if it doesn’t suit them, do you expect them to know our tradition?

Muslims have this terrible mistake of thinking Muhammad got exclusivity for tradition that is why most do not even know what church fathers mean, let alone apostolic church fathers. They got this wierd idea (thanks to Muhammad) that Jesus got a book and then this book got corrupted; so they have absolutely no idea about the churches the apostles found in different lands and yet they claim Jesus came only to Jews because Muhammad said so do not confuse them with historical facts because history with them started after Muhammad.

 

[inJESUS]

And, incidentally, why would a married slave woman want to have sex with her “owner” if she already has a spouse.

once in the “hands” of Muslims, her previous marriage is finished and Muslim men can enjoy her as a possession.

And all **married **women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you.

 

[Jay53]

so do not confuse them with historical facts because history with them started after Muhammad.

This is off topic, but I did notice that some sites reference time frames with AH (after the Hijra) in addition to the AD year (or CE (don’t get me started on that! ). I’m not sure if Muslim countries use this in their calendar or not?

 

[Jay53]

once in the “hands” of Muslims, her previous marriage is finished and Muslim men can enjoy her as a possession.

OK. what happens to her spouse? Unless he is automatically killed?

Why is this not considered adultery?

 

[inJESUS]

OK. what happens to her spouse? Unless he is automatically killed?

who cares right?

Why is this not considered adultery?

 

[inJESUS]

This is off topic, but I did notice that some sites reference time frames with AH (after the Hijra) in addition to the AD year (or CE (don’t get me started on that! ). I’m not sure if Muslim countries use this in their calendar or not?

maybe they can’t stand it that history is divided as before Christ and after Christ so they created their own version Islamic coutries use both i guess.

 

[inJESUS]

O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father’s side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father’s side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother’s side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother’s side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - **a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers **- We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. S. 33:50

Isnt Allah great?

 

[inJESUS]

Commentary of al-Qurtubi on Surah 33:50:

And any believing woman who dedicates herself to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed (Nikah) her; this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large).

As for what was granted and made lawful (by Allah) to the prophet –pbuh– they are 16 issues:-

First: To be fair with the spoils.
Second: To (forcefully) take a fifth of a fifth or just a fifth (of the spoils of war).
Third: “Al Wisal” (Dimitrius- the fast or fasting. This usually refers to fasting or abstaining from food.)
Fourth: To take more than four women.
Fifth: **To marry, “Yas-tan-kih” (or have intercourse), with a woman who verbally pronounces her dedication (to the prophet). **
Sixth: **To marry, “Yas-tan-kih,” without the presence (or permission) of a legal guardian. **
Seventh: **To marry, “Yas-tan-kih,” without a dowry. **
Eighth: To marry (and have intercourse) during a state of ritual consecration and purification.
Ninth: The annulment of an oath he may make to his wives.
Tenth: If Muhammad looks at a woman (and desires her) then it is necessary for her husband to divorce her and for Muhammad to marry her. Ibn Al A’raby said, “This is what the servant of the two holy mosques has also said, as was clear to the scholars from the story of Zaid which also had this meaning.”
Eleventh: That the prophet released Safiyyah (from her captured status) and he considered her release as her dowry.
Twelfth: To enter Mecca without being in a state of ritual purification.
Thirteenth: To fight in Mecca.
Fourteenth: That he is not inherited by anyone at all. This was mentioned in the oath of absolution for when a man approaches death due to illness, most of his possessions are taken away, so that he does not have more than a third left for him. But the possessions of the prophet remained for him, as is evidenced in the verse of inheritance and in Surat Mariam.
Fifteenth: **His marriage is still considered effective after his death. **
Sixteenth: If he divorces a woman she remains prohibited to everyone and may not be married, “Nikah,” to someone else.

Muslims say “he was offered money and women yet rejected them” but am positive they wouldn’t have given him what “Allah” gave him…easy choice and Allah is greater.

 

[R_not]

OK. what happens to her spouse? Unless he is automatically killed?

Why is this not considered adultery?

mohammed redefined the definitions of sin. It isn’t what normal people think of as sin, and certainly not what Jews and Christians think of as sin by following the 10 Commandments.

halal, haram and shirk are the redefinitions of sin for muslims.

It is why they don’t look at what mohammed, terrorists (their support of such ilk as hamas, hezbollah, etc), etc as wrong. What they do look at is what non-muslims do to them. THEN THEY ALL BECOME UNHINGED! Basically all non-muslims are on the same level as urine and feces and their women are not too much higher, but indeed higher than non-muslims. It is all in their koran.

 

[chrisse]

Here is a link that, once Islamic data are put together, prove that Muhammad was born 4 years after his father’s death but the link is in Arabic.

romanos.150m.com/nasab_mo7amad.htm

Thank you, inJesus. Me lazy

I just get so fed up with muslims who are defending something they know nothing about other than what they are told.

All hadiths are authentic, some just have weaker transmission lines, but they are still authentic. What muslims don’t get, is that these so-called “weak” hadiths were NEVER considered heresy against allah or mohammed and were kept as hadiths.

So, it follows, that the disgusting behaviour of mohammet expressed in the hadiths was actually considered as being validly within mohammed’s character.

Satan hit it big time with mohammet, that’s for sure.

 

[swariffin]

Ahmadis tend to reject Islamic tradition if it doesn’t suit them, do you expect them to know our tradition?

Muslims have this terrible mistake of thinking Muhammad got exclusivity for tradition that is why most do not even know what church fathers mean, let alone apostolic church fathers. They got this wierd idea (thanks to Muhammad) that Jesus got a book and then this book got corrupted; so they have absolutely no idea about the churches the apostles found in different lands and yet they claim Jesus came only to Jews because Muhammad said so do not confuse them with historical facts because history with them started after Muhammad.

You are correct. The story of Dynasour and T-Rex all are fabricated in Hollywood. All man are created with Muhammad as the mould according to them.

 

[planten]

You`re a muslim and you want to know about HISTORY??

Okay, the Church is 2000 years old, which traces back to Jersualem 33 AD when the Catholic Church was first established, prior to 33 AD the Missionray of Jesus was caried out by the apostles. The Apostles claimed Jesus was the Son of God. Jesus claimed He was the Son of God. The Jews killed HIM because He was the Son of God. Does not the vast majority of converts from Jews to Christianity not amaze you? Did you not know NO FORCE at all was used to originate Christianity. Actually it was the other way around, Christians were getting persecuted. But for what? There is no historical evidence that nobody originated Christianity by themselves other then Jesus Christ Himself. So with that said, that right is proof that Jesus Christ got Resurected. Otherwise it would mean, all kids, fathers, and husbands left their sacred religion JEWDISUM for a simply lie? But why? Just to get persecuted. Thats not logic.

Nobody can deny the History of the Resurection, its one thing to say Christianinty got corrupted, its another to prove it.

If you don`t believe what I wrote, you need to learn about history yourself and not have the koran or mohammed tell you about it.

**Benjamin, you have tried to explain things but it was not so easy. It is true that followers of Jesus were persecuted, remained in hiding till the king of Rome converted to Christianity. But it was during those 300 years that the teachings of Jesus were all lost and repalced by new teaching coming out of a previous enemy.

Sorry, we do not believe that Jesus is God. We do not believe that there is any one other beside God. We do not believe that Jesus ever died on the cross. We believe that he was the Messiah of the Jews. he had nothing to do with christianity.

He taught Torah to the people. Some perons believed, The others disbelieved and tried to kill him. He had to leave all of a sudden, being a condemned man, he could not apper in public. His mission in the area came to an end within 3 years. So he left the place in search of the lost sheep of Israel.**

 

[dolphinlove]

Benjamin, you have tried to explain things but it was not so easy. It is true that followers of Jesus were persecuted, remained in hiding till the king of Rome converted to Christianity. But it was during those 300 years that the teachings of Jesus were all lost and repalced by new teaching coming out of a previous enemy.

What proof do you have that the teachings were changed? Why would they benefit from making up things? We have had a Pope who is the only one authorized by God if any of the rules were to be changed. The teachings are passed down and NOONE is allowed to changed the rules except God through the Pope. The teachings have not altered in 2000 years at ALL. If you can prove otherwise, good luck, but it wont happen.

Sorry, we do not believe that Jesus is God. We do not believe that there is any one other beside God. We do not believe that Jesus ever died on the cross. We believe that he was the Messiah of the Jews. he had nothing to do with christianity.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**Benjamin, you have tried to explain things but it was not so easy. It is true that followers of Jesus were persecuted, remained in hiding till the king of Rome converted to Christianity. But it was during those 300 years that the teachings of Jesus were all lost and repalced by new teaching coming out of a previous enemy.

Sorry, we do not believe that Jesus is God. We do not believe that there is any one other beside God. We do not believe that Jesus ever died on the cross. We believe that he was the Messiah of the Jews. he had nothing to do with christianity.

He taught Torah to the people. Some perons believed, The others disbelieved and tried to kill him. He had to leave all of a sudden, being a condemned man, he could not apper in public. His mission in the area came to an end within 3 years. So he left the place in search of the lost sheep of Israel.**

you write like you`re telling me facts here. What you belief and what happened are 2 different things. If new teachings were coming out of supposed previous enemy then prove it. How did the teachings of Jesus get corrupted, and why would the jews attempt to kill HIM in the first place?

Also dontforget, you dont believe Jesus is God because Mohammed told you, thats it. Thats the only reason.

 

[Reuben_J]

** But it was during those 300 years that the teachings of Jesus were all lost and repalced by new teaching coming out of a previous enemy.

No, it was not lost. If Osama Ben Laden can hide in the caves of Afghanistan despite the technologically advanced US satellites and weapons, what make you think those puny Roman soldiers could do to find their scriptures? Christian matyrs were killed because they chose to do so for their belief instead of hiding and apostating.

He taught Torah to the people. Some perons believed, The others disbelieved and tried to kill him. He had to leave all of a sudden, being a condemned man, he could not apper in public. His mission in the area came to an end within 3 years. So he left the place in search of the lost sheep of Israel.**

He taught the Torah with authority. He decided the authority. He did not only teach the Sabbath; he was the Master of the Sabbath. The way he taught and revealed himself made him different from previous prophets; he was the fullfilment of the scripture that he taught.

 

[chrisse]

**Benjamin, you have tried to explain things but it was not so easy. It is true that followers of Jesus were persecuted, remained in hiding till the king of Rome converted to Christianity. But it was during those 300 years that the teachings of Jesus were all lost and repalced by new teaching coming out of a previous enemy.

Sorry, we do not believe that Jesus is God. We do not believe that there is any one other beside God. We do not believe that Jesus ever died on the cross. We believe that he was the Messiah of the Jews. he had nothing to do with christianity.

He taught Torah to the people. Some perons believed, The others disbelieved and tried to kill him. He had to leave all of a sudden, being a condemned man, he could not apper in public. His mission in the area came to an end within 3 years. So he left the place in search of the lost sheep of Israel.**

these guys have got to be comedians, I mean, they aren’t serious, … are they???

To the muslims on this board.

If a Christian was to go on any muslim forum and make the statements that you do about Islam, they would immediately be banned.

That’s the difference between Christianity and Islam.

However, we don’t have to respect what you say, (I’m still laughing here).

 

[dolphinlove]

these guys have got to be comedians, I mean, they aren’t serious, … are they???

To the muslims on this board.

If a Christian was to go on any muslim forum and make the statements that you do about Islam, they would immediately be banned.

That’s the difference between Christianity and Islam.

However, we don’t have to respect what you say, (I’m still laughing here).

Chrisse, dont you think your been a little hard on the muslims here? I mean, anyone who believes this guff is obviously 2 cans short of a 6 pack!
If anyone can really fall for the teachings of muhammad, they all of a sudden become ‘robots’ they are programmed with such answers and when challenged, they back down.
Its like when i computer has to think outside of its programming, it will go up in smoke…
Anyway, my stomach is still sore from laughing so hard on here sometimes, its almost material a comedian can use.

 

[R_not]

And planten forgets that the Jews who followed Christ were literate and wrote the scriptures down. And before that the Bible was written down.

While in mohammed’s case this wasn’t true. mohammed was not only illiterate, but a pagan, so had only stories that HE MIGHT HAVE HEARD. This is why the Bible stories are so garbled in the koran. And not even all of them are in there.

Then the koran was written down a few hundred years AFTER mohammed AND the ones who knew him had died. If anything is messed up it would be the koran.

He told his followers that the Bible was corrupted because he knew he didn’t know the Bible and his followers just blindly accepted it. And they follow it and worship it because they are told that if they change it they will go to hell, because mohammed said those who changed the Bible will go to hell.

mohammed was what I call ‘a piece of work’. I can understand why some poets warned others about mohammed. But, as with any good fascist ruler - he had them silenced by having them assasinated. And this is something the muslims just ignore - he had an old man over 100 yrs old, and a woman who had 5 kids and while still breastfeeding, both killed. They just don’t think anything is wrong with those scenarios.

When a group of people put an aura of goodness on something that is just evil - there is something wrong with the whole thing.