The 15 promises made by our Lady to those who pray the Rosary

[Hesychios]

You’re confusing the words and using them incorrectly. I said that you were guaranteeing your pass to heaven not that you are guaranteed to go into heaven.

Now you are engaging in semantics to squirm out of a bad interpretation on your part. So now you are stating that even following these promises a person might wind up in hell after all.

If I had not called you on it, would you have posted a correction, or let lurkers reading here assume what you initially wrote was correct?

 

[WarriorofJesus]

These promises are deceiving people into thinking that if they do a particular thing, a saint (who has ‘appeared’) will guarantee their salvation.

This isn’t any ordinary or normal Saint. This is the mother of Jesus who is our savior and Lord. She isn’t saying to do a particular thing. She is trying to make sure you have higher chances and posiblities of entering heaven and if you stick to the Rosary and remain faithful your are guaranteeing your pass to heaven. Also, don’t forget that she promises to release those souls in purgatory who stuck to the Rosary to the end if you don’t manage to go directly into heaven. So you’ll either go directly into heaven if you pray the Rosary and work on trying to become sin free or you’ll be released quickly from purgatory and go to heaven if you didn’t quite made it to become sin free while you were down here on Earth.

If God wants to take you now, and you are not ready, will she stop Him? With what is one provided?
This is the equivalent of saying that this apparition has the power of God, or power over God. This, as Warrior has stated, is a guarantee (which only God can make).

Stop putting words into my mouth. I didn’t say it was a guarantee. It was something that with a little bit of effort, willingness to have a saintly life and some faith would eventually lead you directly to heaven with the help of the Rosary.

It turns the concept of Intercession completely on it’s head. Intercession in Christian thought is to ask of God, not demand or compel God. God always retains the right to refuse to hear one’s request as well as to refuse the request itself. It is always the will of God, not our request, that will be done, and we need to always acknowledge that.

For a creature of God to guarantee results to anyone at all (and in this case potentially everyone) is to claim that one has control over the will of God. It is essentially conjuring.

Even if we privately believed that God would never refuse a certain person a sincere request, that person could never personally presume upon the will of God. To do so is a great sin and heresy.

This was a concept completely unknown to the early Christian church, it is not Apostolic, it is not the received teaching.

You are seriously lost man. The only reason why you wrote all this information was because you thought that I said that if you pray the Rosary it’s guaranteed that you will go into heaven. As I had said various times, its not a guarantee but if you persevere you are guaranteeing that pass if you everything that is needed to have direct entrance into heaven.

 

[RyanML]

I didn’t say it was a guarantee. It was something that with a little bit of effort, willingness to have a saintly life and some faith would eventually lead you directly to heaven with the help of the Rosary.

In the Gospel, our Lord promised that those who persevere till the end will be saved. If we live and die in God’s grace, then we will see heaven. If the Rosary helps you to do that then that’s great. I am sure our Lord and our Lady will bless you for your faithfulness. But remember that the Rosary is only one of many, many ways to pray and not everyone finds it helpful. If others are skeptical of certain private revelations or do not find the Rosary a helpful devotion, that doesn’t make them anyless pious or devoted to our Lady.

In Christ,
Ryan

 

[rinnie]

A promise made by Jusus/God is totally different than a promise made by anyone else. That is also the difference between something like these Rosary promises, or those associated with the brown scapular, or magic, and a sacrament, which was mentioned in a pp. A sacrament is something instituted by God - we do it at his command.

You know what bluegoat you are right. Nothing is possible without God. But if Job could save his children by his prayers why in the world would you not believe that the Blessed Mother could save us by hers? Why do you pray for someone at all then? It is not praying to God to help the other person? Does your prayers work? Then how can you say that your prayers work and the Blessed Mothers do not?

A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace. Would not praying for someone not be an outward sign instituted by christ?

 

[RyanML]

You know what bluegoat you are right. Nothing is possible without God. But if Job could save his children by his prayers why in the world would you not believe that the Blessed Mother could save us by hers? Why do you pray for someone at all then? It is not praying to God to help the other person? Does your prayers work? Then how can you say that your prayers work and the Blessed Mothers do not?

A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace. Would not praying for someone not be an outward sign instituted by christ?

It seems like bluegoat and hesychios are skeptical of these specific promises, not the power of our Lady’s intercession. We can believe that our Lady will assist us by her prayers without believing in privately revealed promises.

 

[Bluegoat]

You know what bluegoat you are right. Nothing is possible without God. But if Job could save his children by his prayers why in the world would you not believe that the Blessed Mother could save us by hers? Why do you pray for someone at all then? It is not praying to God to help the other person? Does your prayers work? Then how can you say that your prayers work and the Blessed Mothers do not?

A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace. Would not praying for someone not be an outward sign instituted by christ?

It sounds like you are asking if praying for someone is a sacrament?

If so, the answer is no, not even for a Saint in Heaven. There are only the Sacraments recognized by the Church.

I don’t doubt that God answers prayers from many people, including ones who in no way deserve it. That is not the same as saying that God is bound by the prayers of anyone, including the Saints.

 

[livnlern]

No, they say that Saint Mary will.

Only God can save us, No creature of God, no saint, not even Mary has the right to promise salvation which can only come from God.

Remember that this apparition is not promising to pray for you, this apparition is not promising to ask God to have mercy upon you, this apparition is promising to save you in the future if you have need.

We can only ask her to try, she can only promise to try. That is what prayer is, an asking… a bidding.
Saint Mary’s prayers I understand, I know that her prayers are efficacious. I think that you are overestimating the power of Mary as a person.

This apparition is making false claims.

You say “this apparition is promising to ‘save’ you in the future if you have need”.
This is false. Our Blessed Mother never said she would save anyone. She said this: “The sinner will be converted; the just will persevere in grace and merit eternal life.” If a person is converted, they are doing it by their own free will. And in this case, their free will leads them to say the Rosary, trust Mary and Jesus, and be a “just” person. In other words, they still have to work on being a good person but will be aided by Mary if they are willing to say the Rosary.

 

[wcknight]

So much banter over the Rosary.

Let’s look at what this is all about. First off, all power comes from God. BUT as Catholics we know that God has given His Blessed Mother, special priviledges and power. Mary by herself is merely another saint but with God she is very special indeed.

We know that God has made her Queen of Heaven and Queen of all the angels. That in itself can make all sorts of things possible. PLUS since she has her divine Son’s ear, we know that Jesus would agree to anything that she asks for. This basically makes anything and everything possible.

BUT lets look at the Rossary itself. What does it mean to have devotion to this particular set of prayers ?

First off It starts with the Apostles Creed. In this prayer we are accepting everything that the Church teaches is true. It is the ultimate declaration of faith, faith in God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit etc. Then there are the Our Fathers, the prayer that Jesus Himself taught us, in it we ask forgiveness for ourselves against God and neighbor.

Then each of the mysteries of the Rosary recounts some aspect of Christ’s life or that of His mother.

Certainly if prayed with devotion daily, very likely the person praying it will indeed obtain a level of holiness and goodness that would be worthy of salvation.

The question is whether the apparition and the promises made are indeed from Mary (and thus authorized by God). IF Mary did appear to some saint and made these promises, then I think we can safely say that God will make good on these promises.

God in His infinite wisdom would not allow His mother to appear willy nilly and make false claims and promises.

But if the apparitions are fake then it’s a mote point.

 

[Monica4316]

Mary’s promises are just another reminder of God’s amazing and abundant grace for those who work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12).

While the Church may find many things in private revelations that are good and useful, no Catholic is obligated to believe them or make use of the devotions that stem from them.

The Baltimore Catechism defines two types of faith. Human faith is belief based on the testimony of man and that is the faith we give to private revelations. Divine faith, based on God’s testimony, is what we give to the Scriptures and Tradition.

So, there is certainly nothing wrong with finding these prayers and promises spiritually edifying, but a good Catholic has just as much right to be skeptical and prefer other forms of prayer and spirituality.

In Christ,
Ryan

Hi Ryan, it’s true that Catholics don’t HAVE to believe these promises, or any private revelations, but if they are true, isn’t it a good idea to believe them? and since they are approved by the Church, that means the Church didn’t find anything there against faith and morals

No, they say that Saint Mary will.

misunderstanding…

we dont believe that Mary saves us. We believe that God saves us, but that Mary’s prayers are very powerful.

Let’s say there’s a sinner and you pray for him and he gets converted… well God is the one who gave this person grace, but it was through your prayer. If our prayers can do this, imagine what Mary’s prayers can do! We’re the Body of Christ so God uses us to help in the work of salvation… and Mary cooperated in our redemption in a very direct way by being His Mother…we wouldn’t have a Savior without the Incarnation, and if she hadn’t said “yes” to God

Only God can save us, No creature of God, no saint, not even Mary has the right to promise salvation which can only come from God.

yes God saves us but Mary’s prayers are so powerful that whenever she intercedes for a person, God gives them grace for conversion/repentance/etc… thus leading to theri eventual salvation

Remember that this apparition is not promising to pray for you, this apparition is not promising to ask God to have mercy upon you, this apparition is promising to save you in the future if you have need.

it’s not promising to save me… what it says is that if we devoutly pray the Rosary, we’ll be saved, but that doesn’t mean the Rosary is what saves us! (or Mary). It means that through the Rosary, Mary will give us the graces we need to have faith, persevere, repent of sin, etc.

We can only ask her to try, she can only promise to try. That is what prayer is, an asking… a bidding.

with us, yes, but Mary’s prayers are more powerful. She doesn’t just “try”… what she prays for comes true because she only prays for God’s will and Jesus honours her.

Saint Mary’s prayers I understand, I know that her prayers are efficacious. I think that you are overestimating the power of Mary as a person.

I don’t think so I don’t think we can trust or love Mary too much (as long as we love God first). I think we wouldn’t fully understand her role till Heaven. She is very powerful. That’s why the devil fears her.

This apparition is making false claims.

the Catholic Church says it’s not, and I’m Catholic, so I’ll believe the Church

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

Even if we privately believed that God would never refuse a certain person a sincere request, that person could never personally presume upon the will of God. To do so is a great sin and heresy.

except that Mary always prays according to God’s will, that’s why He answers her, like He did at Cana she has a special role…she’s not like us

This is derivative theology. You are making connections that really were never intended.

how do you know what was intended and what wasn’t? I didn’ t make up these ideas about Mary…

You are using human logic to attribute to the Holy Theotokos powers she does not actually have.

again these are not my ideas or ‘human logic’. I didn’t make this up… there are Catholic teachings about this

all I said is that Mary’s prayers are very powerful because she’s the Queen of Heaven. I don’t see what’s so heretical about that. I never claimed that Mary (or the Rosary) saves us like God does…rather, she leads us to Him so that He may save us

We know her as the most holy mother of God. Being most holy, we unabashedly praise her for it, she is (in a way) our hero. The expressions like ‘Queen of Heaven’ and such are poetic license, they are literary devices, they do not confer powers outside of her normal state.

no she actually is the Queen of Heaven… this is from the Old Testament… the mother of the King was called the Queen… Mary is Mother of Jesus the King

You are making a lot of assumptions that are quite frankly, dangerous. This is a major departure from traditional orthodox Christianity. The person who taught this to you will bear a heavy personal responsibility if this leads you into trouble.

it’s the teaching of the Catholic Church. I don’t have to follow Orthodox teaching, considering I’m Catholic… none of this is heretical according to Catholic teachings, which I believe. And according to my research yes it is traditional, I just think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying… have you ever read early Church prayers to Mary? they spoke VERY highly of her.

all the ideas that I’m writing comes from the Saints (not just one or two, but several Saints)

You say “this apparition is promising to ‘save’ you in the future if you have need”.
This is false. Our Blessed Mother never said she would save anyone. She said this: “The sinner will be converted; the just will persevere in grace and merit eternal life.” If a person is converted, they are doing it by their own free will. And in this case, their free will leads them to say the Rosary, trust Mary and Jesus, and be a “just” person. In other words, they still have to work on being a good person but will be aided by Mary if they are willing to say the Rosary.

YES

I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding here on this thread… no one is saying that Mary or the Rosary saves us! what we’re trying to say is that Mary helps lead us more surely to God and prays for us so that we have the graces to persevere in faith… the graces to help us “work out our salvation”

 

[Monica4316]

I dont understand how or why this became a debate If you don’t believe in the promises, alright, that is your choice. But there are people who do believe them and trust in Our Lady’s intercession. I’d understand if we were talking about something unapproved by the Church and heretical… but we’re believing what the Catholic Church has accepted. If you think the Church is wrong, again, your choice, but as a Catholic I believe it. Especially because I see NOTHING wrong with these devotions/promises. I’m glad that we have such a loving Mother in Heaven who is taking care of us and prays for us to be saved. I know I can trust her. God bless

 

[RyanML]

Hi Ryan, it’s true that Catholics don’t HAVE to believe these promises, or any private revelations, but if they are true, isn’t it a good idea to believe them?

When the Church approves of any private revelation, she isn’t saying that they are worthy of the faith we give to public revelation (Scripture and Tradition). She doesn’t even say that all Catholics are encouraged to believe or follow these revelations. All the Church’s approval says is that these revelations have been found worthy of belief and that if they inspire Catholics to greater holiness then they are free to follow them.

If these revelations have no meaning for one’s spiritual life then one is free to ignore them without fear of being branded a bad Catholic. I think this attitude is the reason for the debate.

In Christ,
Ryan

 

[WarriorofJesus]

Now you are engaging in semantics to squirm out of a bad interpretation on your part. So now you are stating that even following these promises a person might wind up in hell after all.

If I had not called you on it, would you have posted a correction, or let lurkers reading here assume what you initially wrote was correct?

Whao whao whao. Ok, lets back up a bit. Your were the one responsible for taking this understanding of the Rosary to another direction. I was stating in the very begenning that the Rosary can help you have direct entrance in heaven. Never did I say that the Rosary or Mary can save you. That is a whole diferent subject. I wasn’t talking about salvation through the Rosary, but another method that could be used that could help you gain direct entrance in heaven. In other words, it was an option available for people to use so that they could facilitate and have better chances or opportunitys of getting to heaven. For as we already know, Jesus is the only one that can save anyone.

It appears so far that you enjoy putting words in my mouth for I have not said anything about that if you follow these promises you will wind up in hell. It appears you have totally forgotten about Jesus and what role he has in our salvation: whis is the most important. It also appears to be that you have no knowledge or very little knowledge of which individuals are the ones who go to hell. Those individuals are the ones who reject Jesus all throughout their life and even when reaching death. Those are the people that go to hell. As you see, you jump from one subject to the next in your attempt to still try to ruin this thread of the Rosary and create a negative influence. None of that will work. Try to focus on just one subject and quit running away from the previous subjects that were being talked or discussed about.

 

[Hesychios]

yes God saves us but Mary’s prayers are so powerful that whenever she intercedes for a person, God gives them grace for conversion/repentance/etc… thus leading to theri eventual salvation

This is a great presumption upon the good will of God. It is wrong to do so.

it’s not promising to save me… what it says is that if we devoutly pray the Rosary, we’ll be saved, but that doesn’t mean the Rosary is what saves us! (or Mary). It means that through the Rosary, Mary will give us the graces we need to have faith, persevere, repent of sin, etc.

Grace does not come from Saint Mary.

with us, yes, but Mary’s prayers are more powerful. She doesn’t just “try”… what she prays for comes true because she only prays for God’s will and Jesus honours her.

This is circular logic.

If it is already God’s will, no prayer is actually necessary, but it cannot be known.

She cannot know God’s will beforehand… that is prescience. It cannot be assumed that God will always change His intentions just because He is asked, that is presumption of God.

She is very powerful. That’s why the devil fears her.

I agree that she is very powerful: in her humble simplicity, her meekness, her holy ways which we can attempt to emulate. This one does not resemble the Holy Theotokos, I would like to think of it as a harmless dream of an honest man, but this concept erodes the supreme powers of the Holy Trinity in the minds of men. It blurs the distinction between the Creator and the created and we must be wary.

We are weak, Satan is very clever, he is the father of Lies. He is called Morning Star, Phosphoros. The Fathers of the church have specifically warned us about this, as did the Apostle.

**I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed! **

As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed! Am I now currying favor with human beings or God? Or am I seeking to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ.
Gal 1 6:10

**… And what I do I will continue to do, in order to end this pretext of those who seek a pretext for being regarded as we are in the mission of which they boast. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
**2 Cor 11 12:15

And in all the writings of the fathers and the Apostles there is never once a mention of some great ministry of the Holy Theotokos to speak for God, or make His promises. This all came much later, hundreds and hundreds of years later. In fact, Saint Dominic himself lived almost 1,200 years after Jesus Christ (that is approximately 48 generations of Christians). That means a lot of Holy Masses (plus Confessions, Confirmations and other sacraments), a lot of Homilies, a lot of divine praises, a lot of good and holy works transpired before this new teaching came among us. A lot of martyrs and other saints were raised up by the church. A lot of souls were saved by God’s holy church, the Received Teaching saves souls.

It is unwise to take the various ‘apparitions’ and ‘messages’ and link them together into some system of Salvation. It is not the received teaching and the Holy Apostles (as well as Saint Mary of Nazareth), who lived and spoke with Jesus on this earth… those who left us the teachings of our Christ… the authors of the Holy Gospels would not recognize it.

The Age of Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, and no matter how much you or I would wish it otherwise, that has been the irrefutable case.

 

[WarriorofJesus]

Originally posted by Bluegoat:
When a person makes a prayer or act of will with the expectation that it will have a certain effect, that is the definition odf practicing magic. There are good reasons why it is forbidden.

Wow…very funny. Keep talking I have no problem with what your saying. So now you want to lead the people of the forums that praying is practicing magic? I would like to correct you on this part.

First of all the definition of magic is this one:

practice of magic: the use of supposed supernatural power to make impossible things happen

Second of all, you do not get supernatural power from the Rosary. You recieve blessings, graces and protection. If you get protection, that doesn’t mean you get power. Protection and power are totally diferent words.

 

[livnlern]

"This is a great presumption upon the good will of God. It is wrong to do so.
Grace does not come from Saint Mary.
This is circular logic.

If it is already God’s will, no prayer is actually necessary, but it cannot be known."

So in other words, Hesy, you’re saying that we don’t need to pray for things because God’s will is already decided, no amount of prayer or intercession will change it. In other words, in your interpretation (which is what this is!) God doesn’t hear our supplications or even those of His mother.
I think that you are quite set against believing anything that is said here that’s contrary to your original position. It’s pointless to argue with you because you are the one that is talking in circles.

 

[WarriorofJesus]

So in other words, Hesy, you’re saying that we don’t need to pray for things because God’s will is already decided, no amount of prayer or intercession will change it. In other words, in your interpretation (which is what this is!) God doesn’t hear our supplications or even those of His mother.
I think that you are quite set against believing anything that is said here that’s contrary to your original position. It’s pointless to argue with you because you are the one that is talking in circles.

 

[Hesychios]

"This is a great presumption upon the good will of God. It is wrong to do so.

No, that is not what I am saying. If you actually read what I have written you would know that… or are you throwing out a red herring here?

What I am saying here is that the claims of this apparition do not make sense.

You can ask God for help, mercy or whatever.

You can ask me to pray to God for help, mercy or whatever on your behalf.

You can ask Saint Mary to pray to God for help, mercy or whatever on your behalf.

But…

You cannot presume to get the answer you want from God.

I cannot presume to get the answer you want, on your behalf, from God.

This apparition cannot presume to get the answer you want, on your behalf, from God.

No one can.

We are all completely dependent upon the loving mercy of God. This concept of this apparition (it cannot be the Holy Theotokos) having special power in heaven, and that it can promise salvation to anyone is a novelty.

I cannot promise you results, and I know this.

Saint Mary of Nazareth cannot promise you results, and she knows this.

The Holy Theotokos would not dare to make such a claim.

We can all pray, and we can all ask one another to pray for us. We can ask the entire communion of saints to pray for us (if we should have enough time in this life to name them all) and we can ask Saint John the Forerunner and Saint Mary the Holy Theotokos to pray for us. This will undoubtedly increase our chances of getting the answer we desire because God does allow us to make arguments in favor of others before him.

But no one of us can promise the favorable results from God in advance. No one. It has never been that way. God is in charge here.

 

[Bluegoat]

Wow…very funny. Keep talking I have no problem with what your saying. So now you want to lead the people of the forums that praying is practicing magic? I would like to correct you on this part.

No, that is not what I said. I said that praying with the expectation that one will get what one wants (if I do this, that will happen) is the same logic that is used in the practice of magic. You need to read more carefully. Perhaps not reading carefully is why you keep changing what you claim the promises mean?

First of all the definition of magic is this one:

practice of magic: the use of supposed supernatural power to make impossible things happen

THis is an incomplete understanding of what magic is. Don’t go to dictionaries to understand something like this, it’s like going to a dictionary to get a theological explanation of the Trinity. It is not what they are meant for.

 

[rinnie]

It sounds like you are asking if praying for someone is a sacrament?

If so, the answer is no, not even for a Saint in Heaven. There are only the Sacraments recognized by the Church.

I don’t doubt that God answers prayers from many people, including ones who in no way deserve it. That is not the same as saying that God is bound by the prayers of anyone, including the Saints.

First of all I am quite aware of the 7 Sacraments of the CC and I am not asking you what they are.

Secondly I don’t really care to hear what your thoughts are on praying to the saints I care about what the CC teaches. And it is in direct conflict with your doubts and teaching.

The gospel teaches that intercession of fellow Christians is what the saints in heaven are.

In 1 Tim 2:5 Paul says that Christians should intercede . In 1 Tim 1-4 It shows quite clearly that it is good and pleasing to God.

And it that is not enough for you and you need it POINT BLANK, You may want to read Rev 5:8 where it states quite clearly that the saints in heaven DO ACTIVELY INTERCEDE FOR US.

And for the record praying for someone is a Sacrament. For claiming to know the Church Sacraments you sure got some real bad information.

The Sacrament for praying for someone is called the Anointing of the Sick. The anointing of the Sick is where a Priest anoints a person with blessed oil and though his prayers Christ gives strength to the soul and sometimes to the body. You may want to check out Mark 6:13 to find it since you do not acknowledge it.