The 6000 Year Earth

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I understand your position - the author would have been better off just saying - “God created everything”. These messy extra verses just get in the way.
Yeah, they sure do seem to confuse some of you guys!😉 (hah! I remembered the smilie this time!)
So it took 31 verses to say something that could have just been one sentence. There seems to be an attempt to confuse. But then we have a problem - God doesn’t lie.
I never made that charge.
But then again when you read Genesis there are many things there that are indeed known to man, such as days, stars, sun, moon, vegetation, animals, birds, sea monsters, dry land, etc… I guess we shouldn’t take these literally in the way the author intended.
That they exist? I don’t suggest that they don’t exist. After all, the point is that God created everything, those things included.
When you say you do not take these verses to be literal history your position is against the constant teaching and understanding of the Church. What makes you the authority? Do you not see the issue?
Well, the former teaching of the Church. I don’t agree with you that the Church ignores science. I agree with the Pope and we are either both right or both heretics. I’ll let you decide, but remember back when the Pope was just a Cardinal and he wrote this: “63. According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the “Big Bang” and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets.” (link for those not familiar with this document - bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm )

Peace

Tim
 
You know, scriptures say that the earth is not rotating but that the sun, moon and stars are orbiting the earth which is the very center of the universe. Fascinating, isn’t it!
where does it say that?
 
That’s ok. I meant to put a winking smilie at the end but it seems like I didn’t proofread either!I call it light and I agree that it would have been electromagnetic radiation. It all started at the “Big Bang”.

I say that based on my understanding of the science. If, however, you read Genesis literally, I don’t see how you can make any statement about the nature of the light because it isn’t in the story. Anything other than the written words is adding to the story an is non-biblical (not found in the bible).

Peace

Tim
We have to get to what the author was conveying.
 
Yeah, they sure do seem to confuse some of you guys!😉 (hah! I remembered the smilie this time!)I never made that charge.That they exist? I don’t suggest that they don’t exist. After all, the point is that God created everything, those things included.Well, the former teaching of the Church. I don’t agree with you that the Church ignores science. I agree with the Pope and we are either both right or both heretics. I’ll let you decide, but remember back when the Pope was just a Cardinal and he wrote this: “63. According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the “Big Bang” and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets.” (link for those not familiar with this document - bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm )

Peace

Tim
We have been here many times. 🙂 I will await a Magisterial teaching that tells me the former teaching was in error. Until then you and I will be rehashing for the benefit of other lurkers and participants.
 
where does it say that?
1 Chron 16:40 - Tremble before him, all the earth; he has made the world firm, not to be moved.

Psalms 93 - The world will surely stand in place, never to be moved.

Josua 10:12-14 - On this day, when the LORD delivered up the Amorites to the Israelites, Joshua prayed to the LORD, and said in the presence of Israel: Stand still, O sun, at Gibeon, O moon, in the valley of Aijalon! And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foes. Is this not recorded in the Book of Jashar? The sun halted in the middle of the sky; not for a whole day did it resume its swift course.

There are quite a few more. I’m sure there are others here who will help you out.

Peace

Tim
 
We have been here many times. 🙂 I will await a Magisterial teaching that tells me the former teaching was in error. Until then you and I will be rehashing for the benefit of other lurkers and participants.
Always a pleasure to discuss this with you friend!

Peace

Tim
 
1 Chron 16:40 - Tremble before him, all the earth; he has made the world firm, not to be moved.
that could mean moved from it’s rotation or shaken from the course that God has set it on.
Psalms 93 - The world will surely stand in place, never to be moved.

that could mean moved from it’s rotation or shaken from the course that God has set it on.
Josua 10:12-14 - On this day, when the LORD delivered up the Amorites to the Israelites, Joshua prayed to the LORD, and said in the presence of Israel: Stand still, O sun, at Gibeon, O moon, in the valley of Aijalon! And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foes. Is this not recorded in the Book of Jashar? The sun halted in the middle of the sky; not for a whole day did it resume its swift course.

i would assume that this is from the perspective of it’s viewers… also, the sun does move in an orbit within our galaxy… but not around the earth.
 
i would assume that this is from the perspective of it’s viewers… also, the sun does move in an orbit within our galaxy… but not around the earth.
Be carefull. I have been labeled a heretic for saying that.

Peace

Tim
 
Another suggestion is alligator, water buffalo. the point is that is a mundane everyday animal -not a dinosaur long dead.
i don’t know about that… there are many accounts of “dinosaurs” throughout written history… and on primitive drawings.
 
i don’t know about that… there are many accounts of “dinosaurs” throughout written history… and on primitive drawings.
Most genera of dinosaurs were extinguished 65 million years ago by the effects of the Chicxulub bollide. Humans missed contact with them by 65 million years.
 
It’s cool how we knew what they looked like.
“The problem with this is that if dinosaurs had been roaming Tudor England, we should certainly know about it by more than a single crude sketch on a few square inches of brasswork. To give the reader some sense of historical proportion, Richard Bell himself appears dozens of times in documents surviving from his era. The English at that time had their chroniclers, their historians, and their makers of bestiaries, none of whom apparently noticed the presence of giant sauropods in Cumbria or elsewhere. The historical likelihood that they were there but went unrecorded, except on Bishop Bell’s tomb, is about on a par with the proposition that Godzilla destroyed Manhattan in the days of Peter Stuyvesant, without any record of the event being preserved.”
 
Don’t waste your time dating the Earth if one day is** like** a thousand years in thy sight of God. The key word is** like**, in other words you can’t definitively date anything with that word been added.

Psalm 90:4 says, “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday” and 2 Peter 3:8 says, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 
Really? How about a scientific source to back you up?
What source do you consider scientific and/or why do you doubt the validity of the initial statement unless you doubt it is a valid source for other information? Like your sources they are a conglomerate of many things:
memorias.ioc.fiocruz.br/963/4213hm.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylogenetic_tree

Today, Tuesday, February 1, 2005, over 1,000 evolutionists formally rejected the traditional theory of evolution, called “monogenetic evolution,” in favor of a new theory of evolution, called “polygenetic evolution.”
lfnexus.com/evolutionistsrejecttheoryofevolution.htm
But hey, if you want to use non-scientific sources, then I will go with this: “Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism.” **Communion and Stewardship: Human Persons Created in the Image of God, **The July 2004 Vatican Statement on Creation and Evolution
bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm
Take a look at the bottom of that document to see who is responsible for it.
I’m familiar with it and who said it and it is as analogous to the certainty of an Earth centered universe 400 years ago because of Created Man. Has Doctrine or Dogma changed because the Earth is not at the center? No. Doctrine or Dogma never said it was and only human vanity assumed it because of the unique place the human being has in Scripture.
Perhaps you are predisposed to think so, but you are the first that has made that leap.
The first to you maybe if you do not account for history or other news accounts but not the first, and I was predisposed to think as you as far as the science goes a number of years ago and have since changed my mind.
Other races. Does that make them less human? Maybe closer to your monkey/man that you seem to be looking for?
Why does a different human race not qualify as a 100% new organism caused by evolution? What distinction is it between the first non-human to human evolutionary branch, and the human to human evolutionary branch that is race?
Please show me where I ever connected the origin of life and evolution.
You may find my positions unsound, but you will not find where I said that the origin of life and evolution are linked.

Peace

Tim
I took this exchange for that exactly.
Your first source says:
Universal common descent is the hypothesis that all living, terrestrial organisms are genealogically related. All existing species originated gradually by biological, reproductive processes on a geological timescale. Modern organisms are the genetic descendants of one original species or communal gene pool
Most likely a single-celled organism. I don’t know how or when, although it was probably at least 3 billion years ago.
If that was not the origin of life, what is?
 
“The problem with this is that if dinosaurs had been roaming Tudor England, we should certainly know about it by more than a single crude sketch on a few square inches of brasswork. To give the reader some sense of historical proportion, Richard Bell himself appears dozens of times in documents surviving from his era. The English at that time had their chroniclers, their historians, and their makers of bestiaries, none of whom apparently noticed the presence of giant sauropods in Cumbria or elsewhere. The historical likelihood that they were there but went unrecorded, except on Bishop Bell’s tomb, is about on a par with the proposition that Godzilla destroyed Manhattan in the days of Peter Stuyvesant, without any record of the event being preserved.”
This is from a Buddhist temple in the Cambodian jungle over 800 years old. Scientists only knew about the plates on the back recently.
 
I would like to address something specific because I bring seemingly extraneous arguments into the discussion like racism, abortion, and genocide; linking them to the evolution discussion. It is not an accusation of those who hold natural evolution as a valid explanation to either the origin of life or the diversity of life on Earth; it is an observance of how the natural evolution arguments support the ‘justification’ of racism, abortion and genocide among other things.

Is the bolded just a popular euphemism?
Hypatia said:
Beyond this guy being totally sick and the disgusting light it shines on the royal family, it also raises the problem of the sub-human status that most Asians have in the Gulf states.
There are many ways to debate these as it relates to evolution:
CHIMPANZEE HEALTH IMPROVEMENT,. MAINTENANCE, AND PROTECTION ACT

Spain’s parliament recently passed a resolution granting legal rights to apes. Reaction has been mixed.

Evolutionists didn’t realize that when they were implying that humans are almost apes, they were also implying that apes are almost human. The double-edged sword did not go unnoticed by animal rights activists, however.

About a month ago a group of two dozen Animal’s Rights experts were seeking to save some aquatic life off the coast of Greenville, Liberia. Liberia is located in Western Africa and borders the North Atlantic Ocean between Sierra Leone and Cote d’Ivoire. As they were about to provide food (human food) for the aquatic species that they were seeking to save, they were informed that a hundred babies in a nearby village needed the food in order to survive. The Animal’s Rights people responded by saying that the aquatic craniate vertebrates they were seeking to save would die in a day without the food. They were then told that the babies would die in a day without the food. The Animal’s Rights group responded by saying:

Evolution teaches the survival of the fittest. The aquatic life we are seeking to save is stronger and has a better chance of survival than the babies in the nearby village. Therefore, we owe it to the “bony fishes” and to the theory of evolution to the save these aquatic vertebrates.

My concern and objection to a pure ‘natural’ origin of life/evolution proposition is that it removes most all discussion about God in the process particularly of late (last 10 yeras or so) by religious scientists. Most of those pro-evolutionists debating in this thread never make the distinction between the origin of life and evolution but there needs to be- each and every time evolution is discussed.

I do not doubt the evidence that shows common descent for things but such evidence does not answer how the first organism came to be or in what form it was. When science proved the Earth was not the center of the universe as the Church once held, I do not think it changed the theology of the Created universe/human. Geologic evolution is not in conflict with theology but biologic evolution seems different. It seems to me at times an over reaction to embrace so fully the incomplete science of origin of life/evolution as a means harmonize it with theology.

As a Catholic I say often and believe the Creed in which it says Christ was begotten, not made. I have no expectation for the non-Catholic (religious or the non-religious) to accept that truth as I hold it, but it makes me question what ‘made’ means. So I use the example of the miracle of feeding the 5000 with fish that could be said to have been ‘made’; not just existing fish transported from a nearby lake to the empty baskets as an example of what being ‘made’ might mean as opposed to begotten with respect to those fish.

I do expect that the Truth of God is not contradictory so the true understanding of evolution cannot logically be misused for evil by either the religious or non-religious on purpose or out of ignorance. There are things in my faith that lead me to believe the human being is not just another evolved animal; from the physical bodily resurrection we hope to experience to the Eucharist as examples of the unique quality applied to human beings not applied to animals. I do not think the human soul is the only unique non-evolved quality to human beings that makes that so, nor do I think it is a geneitic shift at some point in the past.

I feel unless we (Catholics specifically) do not keep God in the equation of origin/evolution the information can be misused or misunderstood as noted in some examples above. Unless we keep theology we hold true in the equation we allow others to be led down a false path of information without proper guidence so my arguments are centered on that point more than if things change over time. It is why I think a reconclliation is needed between science and theology as it regards origin/evolution.
 
I think the crust on my carpet is 6,000 years old … gosh this is such a silly discussion. Does anyone here really believe the earth is 6,000 years old? If not … then why not admit (for goodness sake) the bible is a fairy tale, like all fairy tales aren’t we supposed to dispense with them after I don’t know… 12 or something :D:D:D
 
I think the crust on my carpet is 6,000 years old … gosh this is such a silly discussion. Does anyone here really believe the earth is 6,000 years old? If not … then why not admit (for goodness sake) the bible is a fairy tale, like all fairy tales aren’t we supposed to dispense with them after I don’t know… 12 or something :D:D:D
I was not aware the bible said the earth is 6000 years old; do you have a bible verse or somthing that says that?
 
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