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StAnastasia
Guest
Don’t put words in my mouth – that’s equivalent to lying. I said that the Church Fathers were ignorant of what we know know through science.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Did I say that?
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buffalo
Guest
In so many words. How do you think this can be reconciled?
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StAnastasia
Guest
(1) You don’t know history. The theory of evolution is several hundred years old, and the devil is not its author.
(2) You don’t know much about science if you believe scientists are moving toward a 6000-year-old Earth.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Dogmas aren’t “reversed.”
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buffalo
Guest
Good - so you agree Adam and Eve as our first parents and Eve from Adam stand firm against the claims that there was not an original pair?
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TruthisBeauty7
Guest
St anas
The major difference between Gravity theory and evolution theory is that you can observe gravity in the here and now. You weren’t there when supposely some monkey men turned into the human beings today or even further back how we started as a cell and climbed out of some sort of primordial slime… so you accept these notions, one them being of the monkey men turning into human beings, on pure faith…because you didnt, can’t and wont ever observe the evolution of it.
Evolution Is not believed by the Pope so much as an absolute but more as a possiable presumption,its true end is to become all things to all men, rather then being his definate belief about the origins of man.
The major difference between Gravity theory and evolution theory is that you can observe gravity in the here and now. You weren’t there when supposely some monkey men turned into the human beings today or even further back how we started as a cell and climbed out of some sort of primordial slime… so you accept these notions, one them being of the monkey men turning into human beings, on pure faith…because you didnt, can’t and wont ever observe the evolution of it.
Evolution Is not believed by the Pope so much as an absolute but more as a possiable presumption,its true end is to become all things to all men, rather then being his definate belief about the origins of man.
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heiscominginthe
Guest
And to be ignorant of modern science means they could not discern such things through the Holy Spirit?
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rossum
Guest
We can observe evolution here and now, or would you prefer an old antibiotic that bacteria have evolved resistance to in place of a modern antibiotic to which they are not resistant?
The major difference is that we know that our current theory of gravity is wrong because it does not give the same results and quantum mechanics in the extreme conditions near black holes and at the start of the big bang. There are no inconsistencies between the theory of evolution and any other scientific theory.
rossum
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look3467
Guest
Argument on the creation time schedule is good, though not pertinent to the message it hopes to give.
Searching, here, there, looking at it this way, that way, every which way has nothing to do with the message God hopes impress upon us.
Go ahead, argue! Perhaps some will come to the truth of the message rather than what we think the message is.
“Time” is a span notched out just for us out of all eternity for the express purpose of giving us the ability to exercise the same attributes of God.
Attributes:G1677
ἐλλογέω
ellogeō
el-log-eh’-o
From G1722 and G3056 (in the sense of account); to reckon in, that is, attribute: - impute, put on account.
We, as gods are accountable to ourselves to choose to do good or to do evil.
If you can choose between two distinct things, then you are as like God.
Even if you don’t know who God is.
If we are to argue the age of the earth, let us rather determine at what time in human history were we first made accountable.
Caveman/women = Adam?
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
A point in human time does God makes His word known, not then, but way after, as in the time of the writings of the Old Testament.
Must we understand to believe, or can we believe and then gain understanding?
How can we believe on something we don’t understand? By faith?
Faith then is the message that it was God the Father the creator and Jesus the giver of life.
Blessing’s, AJ
Searching, here, there, looking at it this way, that way, every which way has nothing to do with the message God hopes impress upon us.
Go ahead, argue! Perhaps some will come to the truth of the message rather than what we think the message is.
“Time” is a span notched out just for us out of all eternity for the express purpose of giving us the ability to exercise the same attributes of God.
Attributes:G1677
ἐλλογέω
ellogeō
el-log-eh’-o
From G1722 and G3056 (in the sense of account); to reckon in, that is, attribute: - impute, put on account.
We, as gods are accountable to ourselves to choose to do good or to do evil.
If you can choose between two distinct things, then you are as like God.
Even if you don’t know who God is.
If we are to argue the age of the earth, let us rather determine at what time in human history were we first made accountable.
Caveman/women = Adam?
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
A point in human time does God makes His word known, not then, but way after, as in the time of the writings of the Old Testament.
Must we understand to believe, or can we believe and then gain understanding?
How can we believe on something we don’t understand? By faith?
Faith then is the message that it was God the Father the creator and Jesus the giver of life.
Blessing’s, AJ
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christian1
Guest
to humble in doubt
I guess you believing that incomprehesible self sustaining codependant on one another life stemming from two unable to be seen particles by explosion is not the greatest miracle of all???
this is why people like you will be without excuse.
I guess you believing that incomprehesible self sustaining codependant on one another life stemming from two unable to be seen particles by explosion is not the greatest miracle of all???
this is why people like you will be without excuse.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Yes – the Fathers did not discern through the Holy Spirit things like quantum mechanics, general or special relativity, the Pauli exclusion principle, plate tectonics, biological evolution, organic chemistry, the heliopause, the helical structure of DNA, or the Hubble Red Shift. They were ignorant of these things. Their theology was written and articulated in light of the Aristotelian-Ptolemaic world view which began to break down in the sixteenth century. The core of biblical and Patristic theology (e.g., the incarnation and resurrection, the conciliar definitions, Nicene Creed, etc,) remains constant. But theology is also interpreted for each generation, to reflect our widening understanding of the universe.
StAnastasia
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TruthisBeauty7
Guest
So you read a few things and you think your smart. Anybody can gain knowledge about scientific theories , all you have to do is turn your on computer and your as smart as the person next to you.
you see what the early church fathers had was wisdom, , you have alot of pride to talk about such holy men , men who helped build this church, men we should all respect and admire.
Listen any dope im not saying your a dope but any dope can learn your scientific theories, not anyone can learn the highest science, this takes extreme humility .
In anycase My point still stands and you can’t won’t and never will contradict it, where you there to observe the evolutionary process of man?? No, Was a missing link ever found?? NO, this makes MACRO evolution not so much a scientific theory but rather a dogma of atheistic post modernism.
If you can convince man he’s ancestor is a Monkey you can make him act and think like a monkey . In actuality what science should be studying is not this so called non existing common ancestor but are common creator which is God.
you see what the early church fathers had was wisdom, , you have alot of pride to talk about such holy men , men who helped build this church, men we should all respect and admire.
Listen any dope im not saying your a dope but any dope can learn your scientific theories, not anyone can learn the highest science, this takes extreme humility .
In anycase My point still stands and you can’t won’t and never will contradict it, where you there to observe the evolutionary process of man?? No, Was a missing link ever found?? NO, this makes MACRO evolution not so much a scientific theory but rather a dogma of atheistic post modernism.
If you can convince man he’s ancestor is a Monkey you can make him act and think like a monkey . In actuality what science should be studying is not this so called non existing common ancestor but are common creator which is God.
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rossum
Guest
You also need to learn the language in which something is written. Mathematics and science have their own vocabularies and symbologies. If you are not conversant with them then you will not be able to read much about those subjects. I strongly suspect that you are underestimating the amount of work required. Have a look at the mathematical part of the Wikipedia article on the Dirac delta function for an example.
Try looking at Apolipoprotein A-I Milano for a current example of Homo sapiens evolving. The various responses to malaria, such as HbS, HbC and others also show humans are evolving now.
Many formerly missing links have been found, they are now found links rather than missing links: Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus and so forth.
The evidence is massively in favour of macroevolution. Unless you believe in an incompotent designer who repeats earlier errors in new designs then you have no explanation for the GULO Pseudogene present in many primates. A broken gene that is broken in exactly the same way.
Perhaps you need to read a few more of those science boks you mentioned earlier. Humans are descended from apes, not monkeys. Monkeys have tails, apes do not.
rossum
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Orogeny
Guest
That is a less than smart statement. You might want your surgeon to have more education and training than he/she could get off of the internet.
I don’t think there is anyone in this discussion that doesn’t respect and admire them. The fact is, though, they couldn’t be expected to understand scientific topics the way we do now because those topics were unknown at their time.
There are many on this thread that have proven you wrong.
Were you there when dinosaurs were alive? No. Do you deny that dinosaurs existed? Why or why not?
How do you have a link that is missing if it has been found? Maybe you should check the internet for some logic.
“Missing links” have been found. They are called transitionals. Here is a nice list of them, (toarchive.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html), but my favorite is Tiktaalik (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik).Only if one learns the theory only from the internet.
Well, “are” common creator is outside the realm of science, so how would you suggest we test for Him?
Peace
Tim
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StAnastasia
Guest
You’re confusing “smartness” with having access to information. Lots of people have access to information on the Internet, but they aren’t smart enough to use it.
And you are bearing false witness (that’s a sin, you know!) by accusing me of not celebrating the wisdom of the Church Fathers. I never said anything about their theological wisdom, or their not having helped to build the Church we know and love. What I said is that the third and fourth century Fathers knew nothing about the sciences we now learn from in 2009.
StAnastasia
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avflf
Guest
Maybe the HS was not clued up at that time either and is also in a learning curve. Bet you if the Church Fathers were living today they and the HS would’ve incorporated the double helix into their writings.:newidea:
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TruthisBeauty7
Guest
Im sorry folks but those links hardly show how man transformed from a ape to the man we have today.
Your truly grasping at straws here people and your appearing greatly desperate.
Please stop living in your own fairy tale land and start living in the truth of real science, those who hold to creationism and the young earth theory.
God bless
Your truly grasping at straws here people and your appearing greatly desperate.
Please stop living in your own fairy tale land and start living in the truth of real science, those who hold to creationism and the young earth theory.
God bless
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buffalo
Guest
But you always make the claim that since we know more now that it proves the creation story to be mythic.
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Orogeny
Guest
Well, your argument has convinced me. I’ll give up the delusion of science and take up the real science of creationism and young earth. I’ll spend the rest of my life ignoring the lying evidence and look for evidence of are common creator.
Peace
Tim
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