The 7 books

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Does anyone have information on why the 7 books are not included in KJV?

Tobias
Judith
Wisdom
Ecclesiasticus
Baruch
1 Machabees
2 Machabees

Thanks!
 
Luther took them out because they didn’t go with his “sola scriptura” and “sola fide” beliefs and “theology.” The Maccabees book has the scriptures to back up our Purgatory doctrine also.

Funny thing is that he also wanted to take out James and Revelations because James has the fact that we can’t go by faith alone and Revelations has that nothing unclean can enter heaven which is part of the Purgatory scriptures. Revelations also mentions that Mary is battling it out with Satan. I’m not sure that that’s one of the reasons why Luther wanted it out but he did want it out.

There’s a reason why those books are called deuterocanonical. The protocanonical books are contained in the Hebrew bible. The deuterocanonical books are only in the Greek bible called the Septuagint (which contain 3 apocrypha books not in our Catholic bible). Okay, I hope I get this right but someone can correct me if I’m wrong… Luther used the excuse that since those 7 books were not originally written in Hebrew, he wanted them out. But little did he know that later, after Hebrew bible was put together, there were some Hebrew translations found for some of those books. Can’t use that excuse anymore Luther.
 
Does anyone have information on why the 7 books are not included in KJV?

Tobias
Judith
Wisdom
Ecclesiasticus
Baruch
1 Machabees
2 Machabees

Thanks!
They were included in the 1611 KJV. These books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825.
The seven books you reference were written between 400BC and 1BC, primarily in Greek (although some exist in Hebrew fragments) whereas the rest of the OT was written before 400 BC in Hebrew.

Martin Luther didn’t like them because 2 Macc 12:39-46 talks about prayer and offerings for the dead that their sins might be forgiven, which he personally opposed. (The practice was being abused during Luther’s time by corrupt church officials who used it to raise money.) Luther couldn’t justify rejecting just 2nd Maccabees, but he did find support from other anti-Catholic reformers for defining the entire group as an unjustified addition to Old Testament scripture.

See these articles:
How to Defend the Deuterocanonicals (best explanation)
Old Testament Canon (Early Church Fathers’ position on the canon)

I have a question of my own for everyone: Why are only these 7 books part of the Deuterocanonicals, and not other significant works written in that period?

Nan
 
I would agree with AlegreFe, Martin Luther took out some of the books in the Bible because they went against his theology.
He had originally put those books of the New Testament in an appendix, but later put them back in because the other reformers pleaded with him to do so.
He also added the word “alone” to Romans 3:28 to make it say: “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith (alone) without the deeds of the law.”

To justify the removal of these books he found that the Jews in Germany at the time used the Hebrew version of old testament, which don’t include these extra 7 books, even though to this very day there are some Jews that still use the Greek Septuagint.

Martin Luther was very very clear in his reasoning why he removed James, and he called it “an epistle of straw” even after putting it back into the Bible.

I wonder if this is the type of thing that the Bible was trying to warn us against when it warned us not to “add to or take away” from scripture?

Today Protestants will say it was because they are not inspired and they will give reasoning that they are geographically and historically inaccurate, but here is a link about this line of reasoning.
5 myths about 7 books. by Mark Shea.
 
wow, thank you all for the information. If you don’t mind, I would take some info from your post - especially the links and some verses and put on my personal website - I’d like to put it there for future reference.
 
To my knowledge the 7 books were included in the original canon because they appeared in the Septuagent or Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures that was translated for the Jews in the diaspora or those outside of Palestine before the Messiah. These books did not appear in the Hebrew Scriptures inside Israel.

It is ironic that Macabees is not in the current Jewish canon and is only found in the Catholic canon. Ironic because Jews do celebrate the victory of the Macabees, Hanukah, while most Christians unless they are of Hebrew descent like myself do not, and because if there is no victory for the Macabees there would be no Messiah, Jesus.

The Church in a council hundreds of years later correctly included these books in our canon. The Rabbis met in Jamnea after the destruction of the Temple and did not include them in their canon probably to make themselves distinct from Christianity and because some of these books help readers see that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and Messiah for all.

Later Luther decided to take these out and wanted to take out other books like James because they did not mesh with his ideas of justification but only ended up taking out the 7 books thus making it distinct from the Catholic canon. This is where the KJV comes from. The fruit of this kind of thinking where one changes the scriptures to fit their ideas has been the founder of over 60,000 protestant denominations, how sad.

I am not a historian so this is only my understanding and of course I invite others to add or correct me if necessary.

Shalom,
Ken
 
It is worth noting that no Church council has ever proclaimed a canon of Scripture that included the 66 “Protestant” books while excluding the Deuterocanonicals. So they were not “added” to the bible any more than the Gospel of John or the Letter to the Hebrews was “added” to the bible.
 
This is my understanding too. These 7 books were NOT added but included in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. So Christians all over the world for over 300 years naturally included these books in the Hebrew Scriptures and then the canon of the New Covenant was added at the council. Very good point to stress.

Shalom,
Ken
 
They were removed from the 1611 KJV by Calvinists after 1611of course. The same goes for the “Book of Common Prayer” and Anglicanism as a whole (both influenced by Calvinism).

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Does anyone have information on why the 7 books are not included in KJV?

Tobias
Judith
Wisdom
Ecclesiasticus
Baruch
1 Machabees
2 Machabees

Thanks!
They are not in the Jewish Bible (Tanakh). The Jews rejected it.

Rom 3:1
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?

Rom 3:2
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Jesus referenced the Jewish Old Testament canon from the beginning to the end and did not include the apocryphal in his reference. “From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation,’” (Luke 11:51).

"Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled,” (Luke 24:44).
 
Does anyone have information on why the 7 books are not included in KJV?

Tobias
Judith
Wisdom
Ecclesiasticus
Baruch
1 Machabees
2 Machabees

Thanks!
a) They were waiting for the video?
b) Disney had the naming rights?
 
How does the Jews rejecting the books affecting Christian’s bible?
Paul said the “oracles of God” were committed unto them. It means our Old Testament is the same as their Jewish Bible.

Rom 3:1
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?

Rom 3:2
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
 
You mean the same Jews that rejected Jesus?
You would trust their judgement?
I trust Paul’s teaching. He was also a Jew. He was also a Jew that persecuted the church. He was the same Jew that Jesus spoke to. The same Jew that is the Apostle to the gentiles.
 
Paul said the “oracles of God” were committed unto them. It means our Old Testament is the same as their Jewish Bible.

Rom 3:1
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?

Rom 3:2
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
You mean the same Jews that rejected Jesus?
You would trust their judgement?
So, who made up the 7 books?
 
My best guess is MAN.
well, all books were written by man who is inspired by the Holy Spirit. If it is not for those men, we wouldn’t have Bible to talk about, would it?

also, why did the Jews rejected the 7 books? is it because it is against their belief?
 
well, all books were written by man who is inspired by the Holy Spirit. If it is not for those men, we wouldn’t have Bible to talk about, would it?

also, why did the Jews rejected the 7 books? is it because it is against their belief?
Probably because they believed it to be of MAN also.
 
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