The 7 missing books of the protestant bible

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I apologize: I didn’t realize there was more than one page. I posted that reply thinking that it was to the last post made, as it is the last post on page one. If I had known, I would have seen that someone else already responded to it.
 

Geek wrote: T]*he apostles quoted several works not accepted by any Christian faith, such as the book of Enoch, or some of the works of some pagan poets. *​

It is not quite right to say that Enoch never became an part of any Christian Bible. (This is about 1 Enoch, 2 Enoch being less recognised.) The Coptic canon of the Bible does include 1 Enoch in its canon of the Old Testament. The Coptic canon is larger than the Eastern Orthodox canon or the Roman Catholic canon of Holy Scripture.

Good work, 👍 though, in that text (no. 60 of this forum)!
 
I cannot edit my post further for some reason, but I want to add the part about what the pro Catholic article, “5 Myths about 7 books” says about Jerome. (Btw, you call Jerome a “saint”, but Catholics abuse this term and do not accept another one of Paul’s writings, that all Christians are saints. Read the New Testament, and there are SEVERAL passages talking about how all Christians are saints (you can look those up on your own). And here’s an article proving why praying to the dead is ACTUALLY A SIN gotquestions.org/praying-to-the-dead.html. I know these things are random, but I just wanted to disprove those extra Catholic teachings before moving to the disproving of the “5 Myths about 7 books” article.) Even the article says, when Jerome translated the RC Bible, he did indeed think the apocrypha should not be included. But later, he changed his way of thinking. Why? The RCC was known to be VERY corrupt in medieval times, and it is very likely that the RCC did not want the very translator of their Bible to be known to disagree with them. So they likely blackmailed, tortured, or threatened him to make a public statement about agreeing with the Apocrypha. (The RCC killed anyone who disagreed with them, which delayed the Reformation, because many people (including Luther!!) did not want to break off of the Catholic church, simply correct the errors. Luther was just the first one who lived long enough to make his ideas widespread. Luther actually would’ve been murdered by the RCC if Frederick III, Elector of Saxony, hadn’t defended him.)

That is the only non-proven anti-Catholic statement I have made, but I think it was worth showing.
Since you. don’t know when the middle ages were. Your credibility is compromised. He lived in Imperial Rome.
In fact he. was in the Holy Land when Rome was sacked
Show me a pre-reformstion. Bible that does’nt include these books Eastern Coptic or any Apostolic Christainity
By the way Jerome said the only ones who disagreed on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary were know heritics.
 
Hi, Gus,

Yes, indeed, credibility is easily squandered and hard to recature.

God bless
Since you. don’t know when the middle ages were. Your credibility is compromised. He lived in Imperial Rome.
In fact he. was in the Holy Land when Rome was sacked
Show me a pre-reformstion. Bible that does’nt include these books Eastern Coptic or any Apostolic Christainity
By the way Jerome said the only ones who disagreed on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary were know heritics.
 
Since you. don’t know when the middle ages were. Your credibility is compromised. He lived in Imperial Rome.
In fact he. was in the Holy Land when Rome was sacked
Show me a pre-reformstion. Bible that does’nt include these books Eastern Coptic or any Apostolic Christainity
By the way Jerome said the only ones who disagreed on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary were know heritics.
Gus, have you noticed that many bible Christians will almost invariably cite Jerome on those few points in which they agree with him? Then, in the blink of an eye, they will disagree with him about Christ’s presence in the Holy Eucharist, Mary’s virginity, or the leadership of the successor of Peter? They cling to a faith built on exceptions, and that is not an exceptional faith!
 

Po` Guy wrote: Gus, have you noticed that many bible Christians will almost invariably cite Jerome on those few points in which they agree with him? Then, in the blink of an eye, they will disagree with him about Christ’s presence in the Holy Eucharist, Mary’s virginity, or the leadership of the successor of Peter? They cling to a faith built on exceptions, and that is not an exceptional faith!

You score big-time, Po Guy! Very few of these poor creatures, like Gus, ever bother to read any of St. Jeromes writings for themselves. I confess that I really have not read a lot of his books myself, either, but that is better than a “0” rating on this matter.

Try reading, Gus and you other poor benighted sectaries, for starters, St. Jeromes Satirical Letters. The humour, such as it be, is grim, even bitter, much like St. Jerome himself tended to be. St. Jeromes austere personality and tastes, and his at times almost too-stern and unyielding legalism, might surprise Gus. That great Doctor of the Church definitely was more Catholic (or even Eastern Orthodox, too, in some ways, in those times long before the Great Schism occurred) than anything that Gus, wallowing and squatting miserably in sub-protestant sectarianism, would assume this great saint to be.

St. Jerome is not one of my favourite saints – give me St. Ambrose, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Monica 😛 anytime! – but, hey, dudes, you take the hard with the soft when you accept all that is right in Catholicism and of its Tradition and heritage, whatever the savour that some saints add to its many flavours.
 
Gus, have you noticed that many bible Christians will almost invariably cite Jerome on those few points in which they agree with him? Then, in the blink of an eye, they will disagree with him about Christ’s presence in the Holy Eucharist, Mary’s virginity, or the leadership of the successor of Peter? They cling to a faith built on exceptions, and that is not an exceptional faith!
That’s exactly the point I tried to make.
I do apoligize if my use of hyperbole was offensive.
I do need some work on my literary skills.
 
Hi,Po18guy,

I think there is a special ‘pun tax’ that will take effect beginning in January… 😃

Truly, this is not an ‘exceptional faith’ by any stretch of the imagination. I, too, have noticed that Protestants have their own ‘cafeteria plan’ when it comes to Scripture and the Early Church Fathers. None of them to my knowledge can take any ECF in their entirty and walk their way through the writings and expect of have their 16th Century revolt sanctioned. Here is a link to the ECFs - those interested in checking out St. Jerome’s other writings - here’s your chance: newadvent.org/fathers/

God bless
Gus, have you noticed that many bible Christians will almost invariably cite Jerome on those few points in which they agree with him? Then, in the blink of an eye, they will disagree with him about Christ’s presence in the Holy Eucharist, Mary’s virginity, or the leadership of the successor of Peter? They cling to a faith built on exceptions, and that is not an exceptional faith!
 

Po` Guy wrote: Gus, have you noticed that many bible Christians will almost invariably cite Jerome on those few points in which they agree with him? Then, in the blink of an eye, they will disagree with him about Christ’s presence in the Holy Eucharist, Mary’s virginity, or the leadership of the successor of Peter? They cling to a faith built on exceptions, and that is not an exceptional faith!

You score big-time, Po Guy! Very few of these poor creatures, like Gus, ever bother to read any of St. Jeromes writings for themselves. I confess that I really have not read a lot of his books myself, either, but that is better than a “0” rating on this matter.

Try reading, Gus and you other poor benighted sectaries, for starters, St. Jeromes Satirical Letters. The humour, such as it be, is grim, even bitter, much like St. Jerome himself tended to be. St. Jeromes austere personality and tastes, and his at times almost too-stern and unyielding legalism, might surprise Gus. That great Doctor of the Church definitely was more Catholic (or even Eastern Orthodox, too, in some ways, in those times long before the Great Schism occurred) than anything that Gus, wallowing and squatting miserably in sub-protestant sectarianism, would assume this great saint to be.

St. Jerome is not one of my favourite saints – give me St. Ambrose, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Monica 😛 anytime! – but, hey, dudes, you take the hard with the soft when you accept all that is right in Catholicism and of its Tradition and heritage, whatever the savour that some saints add to its many flavours.
Sorry you misunderstood my post,
I certainly have read Jerome.
He was unlikeable to some but he didn’t mince words.
Did you ever read his defense of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? I was only pointing out the the hipocrisy of citing Jeromes Infallability on the Dutoros while ignoring his other writings. Sorry that’s the best this wallowing sub protestant
(whatever that is) can offer someone so enlightened as your self.
 
That’s exactly the point I tried to make.
I do apoligize if my use of hyperbole was offensive.
I do need some work on my literary skills.
I tend toward the provocative and hyperbolic myself. Good conversation starter, but I do have to rein myself in at times… :o

The point being that by choosing Jerome here, Calvin there, Luther at other times, Joel Osteen last week, Joyce Meyer this week, and who knows who on other matters, is clearly lapsing into the arena of a man-made faith. How many popes do bible Christians follow? We have but one, and he does not indulge our desires, but rather, challenges them!

Per the words of our Lord Himself, we are to do two things before we follow Him: deny ourselves and take up our crosses (Matthew 16:24, Luke 9:23). Picking and choosing whose advice we will follow serves neither one of these commands of our Lord.
 

Po` Guy wrote: Gus, have you noticed that many bible Christians will almost invariably cite Jerome on those few points in which they agree with him? Then, in the blink of an eye, they will disagree with him about Christ’s presence in the Holy Eucharist, Mary’s virginity, or the leadership of the successor of Peter? They cling to a faith built on exceptions, and that is not an exceptional faith!

You score big-time, Po Guy! Very few of these poor creatures, like Gus, ever bother to read any of St. Jeromes writings for themselves. I confess that I really have not read a lot of his books myself, either, but that is better than a “0” rating on this matter.

Try reading, Gus and you other poor benighted sectaries, for starters, St. Jeromes Satirical Letters. The humour, such as it be, is grim, even bitter, much like St. Jerome himself tended to be. St. Jeromes austere personality and tastes, and his at times almost too-stern and unyielding legalism, might surprise Gus. That great Doctor of the Church definitely was more Catholic (or even Eastern Orthodox, too, in some ways, in those times long before the Great Schism occurred) than anything that Gus, wallowing and squatting miserably in sub-protestant sectarianism, would assume this great saint to be.

St. Jerome is not one of my favourite saints – give me St. Ambrose, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Monica 😛 anytime! – but, hey, dudes, you take the hard with the soft when you accept all that is right in Catholicism and of its Tradition and heritage, whatever the savour that some saints add to its many flavours.
Sorry you misunderstood my post,
I certainly have read Jerome.
He was unlikeable to some but he didn’t mince words.
Did you ever read his defense of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? I was only pointing out the the hipocrisy of citing Jeromes Infallability on the Dutoros while ignoring his other writings. Sorry that’s the best this wallowing sub protestant
(whatever that is) can offer someone so enlightened as your self.
You both are making the same point, but clearly there is a misunderstanding. The only “sub” anything is a faith which picks and chooses what it will believe.
 
Hi, Gus,

In my opinion, all of us can learn from one another. And we have an opportunity to do so with both insight and grace.

The link I previously gave has many applications. Now, I think there are several issues that need to be identified concerning St. Jerome:

1.) Notwithstanding any of Jerome’s strengths and weaknesses - he was one man who had a job to do for the Pope. He gave his best and shared his opinions without reservation.

2.) Jerome was not infallible - the Pope is.

3.) All of Jerome’s writings need to be honestly considered - what has the infallible Catholic Church embraced from Jerome’s opus … and what has it left alone?

4.) Jerome was one of the Early Church Fathers - and, it is important to see how the other ECFs address particular issues - and then how did the Catholic Church resolve the issue.

God bless
Sorry you misunderstood my post,
I certainly have read Jerome.
He was unlikeable to some but he didn’t mince words.
Did you ever read his defense of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? I was only pointing out the the hipocrisy of citing Jeromes Infallability on the Dutoros while ignoring his other writings. Sorry that’s the best this wallowing sub protestant
(whatever that is) can offer someone so enlightened as your self.
 
Gus,

It is good to learn that you have read some of St. Jeromes writings. I went out on a limb, supposing that you probably had not done that, because of how many sectaries do not bother to read St. Jeromes own words.

Why such an horror at St. Jerome`s belief in the perpetual virginity of Our Lady? That has been believed for a long, long time. There is no need to be scandalised that St. Jerome believed this; he did not invent this matter. You obviously have a bad reaction to it, but that does not prove much to Catholics or to Eastern Orthodox.

By “sub-protestant”, I was not referring to any deficiencies of your own. I just mean to point out that sectaries (Baptists, Methodists, Campbellites, Pentecostals, et al.) who are Christians, but hold neither the faith and convictions of Catholicism, Holy Orthodox, or of Protestantism (Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians/Reformed, Moravians being genuine Protestant and Confessional in one way or another) have their own niche, that of sectarianism, which does not rise to even so much as the doctrinal and spiritual heights «bx internal consistency of Protstantism.

May the Lord God grant you a greater measure of faith, to lead you to Catholicism or to Holy Orthodoxy. Even as a sectary, may your spirit abide in Christ our Lord and Saviour.
 
Jerry I’m lifelong Catholic.
Actually a revert to the Church after a profound conversion from athesism.
I returned about 10 years ago.

We are way of topic

Sorry if I confused you.
My prayers are with you
 

Gus wrote: We are way of topic. Sorry if I confused you. My prayers are with you.

Yeah, that happens often on the varuiys C.A. Fora. It can take some effort by numerous contributors to get a forum back on track with its intended purpose.
 
A couple quick thoughts
  1. As had been pointed out already, the Bible you will find in a Jewish synagogue is identical to the one in Protestant churches.
And are Christians Jews? Not necessarily true,because the order of the books can differ.
  1. St. Jerome, I have read, who translated the Vulgate, felt that these seven books should not be included in the canon.
Typical argument used,yet it proves nothing. Jerome,unlike many Protestant founders (Luther,Calvin,Zwingli,etc) submitted his will for the will of the Church,which is the mystical body of Christ. Protestants push their own agendas and wills over that of the church,precisely why Protestanism never stops dividing. By the way, Jerome was not the official voice of the church.
  1. Many mainline congregations (and hymnals) use selections from these seven books. They certainly are not condemned, just not part of the canon. Luther, Calvin and others decided to go with the Hebrew Bible as recognized by the Jews.
The very same group of people who rejected Jesus and his teachings?
  1. This is really a minor matter. Far more important is how different denominations (or folks within denominations) differ in their interpretations of the Bible. Evangelicals tend to be sola scriptura. Catholicism emphasizes the interpretation as endorsed by the magisterium. Mainline (usually liberal or moderate) Protestants are inclined to believe that there is great inspiration in scripture but that it is not without contradictions, historical inaccuracies, and a host of other problems. How can a Christian, for example, believe that God ordered Joshua to slaughter every inhabitant of Jericho, Ai and other cities? How does that fit in with the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount?
Relativism.
  1. A strong argument can be made for including or omitting the seven books.
History says otherwise.
 

Gus wrote: Jerry I’m lifelong Catholic. Actually a revert to the Church after a profound conversion from athesism. I returned about 10 years ago.

Gus, That`s great! I can chuckle at myself. I try to avoid being overly defensive, but I was so unnecessarily suspicious that I thought that you were some sort of sectary! I am so, so glad that I was wrong about that.

Actually, I think what happened is that I lost track of whom you were. Sometimes in these fora it is easy to forget whom is who and who said what. Going back to your various postings, it should have been obvious to me that you are Catholic. Maybe I thought that you were Vahva. I am glad that you are who you are! 👍
 
They were in the Hebrew Bible at the time of Jesus and during the era of the Book of Acts. After the fall of Jerusalem and the scattering of Jews out of the Holy Land, when Judaism was reorganized, those books were removed because they were not originally
written in Hebrew. They were originally penned in Greek. Undoubtably there is more to the story, but the key point is that religious Jews dropped them from their own “Bible” after they were being circulated within Christian churches as part of the Christian scriptures, and they got into the set of Christian scriptures because they had been in the Bible used by Jesus and the Apostles.
I believe you are wrong here. Some of the deuterocanonicals were written in Hebrew, some in Greek.

There was no “Hebrew Bible” in the time of Jesus and the Acts of the Apostles. There were several different canons of Scripture in use by the Jews at the time depending on which sect they belonged to. The Pharisees used the canon now in use by Protestants. The Saducees only used Genesis through Deuteronomy.

None of the Jewish sects used a biblical canon that corresponds exactly to the canon used by the Catholic Church today. All of the books in our OT were found in the Septuagint version used by the Greek-speaking Jews of the Diaspora but it also contained books which our OT does not.
 
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