The Abortion Oxymoron

[Alexius]

Scott Peterson was convicted on 2 counts of murder.

Lacy Peterson’s family successfully pushed Congress to pass Lacy and Conner’s Law, a Federal Law that if a crime was committed against a pregnant woman, the perp would be charged with 2 crimes. It’s a Federal law, applying to Federal crimes…so I guess interstate kidnapping etc would fall under this category.

(I used to watch a lot of Court TV )

Basically, anything falls under Federal Law these days. It doesn’t need to be directly interstate anymore as long as it violates a Federal statute. Heck, even some grocery, gas, and convenient store robberies are charged as robbery on the Federal level…

Basically, the conviction of Scott Peterson should be enough to overturn Roe v. Wade.

In it Justice Blackmun conceded that there wasn’t enough evidence to say whether the unborn was a person, but if there were sufficient evidence, then Roe v Wade would fall because the right to life is a higher right than the right to privacy.

I submit to the court, that the State of California granted personhood to Conner Peterson in the conviction of Scott Peterson. An unborn either is or is not a person. California conceded that it is.

I’m confused to the fact that abortion is still legal

I remember arguing the same thing a couple of years ago. None of the brains in Washington seem to be able to piece this together…I think money is too important to many of them to do what is right and just…Planned Parenthood is a business and they certainly protect their own interests with as many lives as are necessary.

Hey guys, can anybody here tell me what the sentence they think should be for having an abortion?

Same as hiring a hit–first degree murder.

My opinion–

For having an abortion; 5, 10, 15 or 20 years at hard labor unless the person cannot physically work, in which case w/o hard labor plus weekly/monthly psych eval.

For performing an abortion: 10, 15 or 25 years to life at hard labor.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Benadam]

I suppose we can justify it the same way we justify “aborting” adults in capital punishment cases.

Both acts are justified as resolutions to end human suffering. The human life that is ended seem like odd partners in that crime against humanity.

 

[ryecroft]

Same as hiring a hit–first degree murder.

My opinion–

For having an abortion; 5, 10, 15 or 20 years at hard labor unless the person cannot physically work, in which case w/o hard labor plus weekly/monthly psych eval.

For performing an abortion: 10, 15 or 25 years to life at hard labor.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

Wow - Don’t you think that’s a little harsh - I mean even murderers today don’t get hard labor - (well, maybe some in Arizona) - and what would the counseling be for - I mean would it be to try to convince the person that what they had done was wrong/murder? I have a hard time believing that if someone believed it was murder that they would have an abortion. Just my opinion.

 

[Bennie_P]

Same as hiring a hit–first degree murder.

My opinion–

For having an abortion; 5, 10, 15 or 20 years at hard labor unless the person cannot physically work, in which case w/o hard labor plus weekly/monthly psych eval.

For performing an abortion: 10, 15 or 25 years to life at hard labor.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

Punishing the women is not going to help in the the mother’s redemtion, just further victimize her, it is the provider (abotionist, PLanned Parenthood) of abortion which is the carrier and promoter of the evil. Women who have abortions are victims who IMHO (and and many other pro-lifers) that have beened fooled into beliveing this act will help them and only later come to realize abortion harms them.

In the past when abortion was illegal, it was the doctor that was punished not the women.

 

[Squishy]

How old was the unborn child who was killed?

 

[Bonnie_Char]

It’s not an oxymoron. It’s politics. Pro-life politicians recently created the act
and passed it during the Bush Administration, as a foot in the door to
erode Roe v Wade.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was first introduced in Congress in 1999 by then-Congressman (later Senator) Lindsey Graham (R-SC). It passed the House of Representatives in 1999 and 2001, but not the Senate. In 2003, the bill was reintroduced in the House as H.R. 1997 by Rep. Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania. It was ultimately co-sponsored by 136 other members of the House before it passed by a vote of 254 in favor to 163 against on February 26, 2004. After several amendments were rejected, it was passed in the Senate by a vote of 61-38 on March 25, 2004. It was signed into law by President Bush on April 1, 2004.

 

[Alexius]

Wow - Don’t you think that’s a little harsh - I mean even murderers today don’t get hard labor - (well, maybe some in Arizona) - and what would the counseling be for - I mean would it be to try to convince the person that what they had done was wrong/murder? I have a hard time believing that if someone believed it was murder that they would have an abortion. Just my opinion.

Punishing the women is not going to help in the the mother’s redemtion, just further victimize her, it is the provider (abotionist, PLanned Parenthood) of abortion which is the carrier and promoter of the evil. Women who have abortions are victims who IMHO (and and many other pro-lifers) that have beened fooled into beliveing this act will help them and only later come to realize abortion harms them.

In the past when abortion was illegal, it was the doctor that was punished not the women.

Sorry, should have been clearer. If abortion were illegal, then the woman would be breaking the law. If abortion is murder than it must be treated as such. I simply stated terms that I would recommend.

When I said 5 years for someone having an abortion, they would be counselled and when deemed no longer a threat to themselves, then they could be released. I would be willing to waive the prison time in favor of lengthy counseling and monitoring though if this were the first time and they were under extreme pressure and duress (which means only the cold-blooded go to jail). Again, the “prison” time is meant to be rehabilitative and would be geared toward ensuring the safety of all.

However, the woman still broke the law and this is a serious matter. If this is murder, then the punishment is that of murder. Even many murderers and people who hire them are under duress of some sort or they wouldn’t have killed and they still go to prison for a long time. Hard labor? Sorry, bad idea on my part. Totally defeats what I actually wanted it to say Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

The doctor could get 10, 15 or 25 years or life with a minimum of any of those terms. Quite generous I think since I’m not asking for the death penalty and with 10 years they could be out in 5 years. Maybe it is harsh, but at least they are alive and may one day walk the streets, I can’t say the same for the innocent life that was taken. Just my opinion…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Teelynn]

If I recall, she was between 5 and 6 months gestation.

 

[Teelynn]

How old was the unborn child who was killed?

If I recall, she was between 5 and 6 months gestation.

 

[Teelynn]

It’s not an oxymoron. It’s politics. Pro-life politicians recently created the act
and passed it during the Bush Administration, as a foot in the door to
erode Roe v Wade.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was first introduced in Congress in 1999 by then-Congressman (later Senator) Lindsey Graham (R-SC). It passed the House of Representatives in 1999 and 2001, but not the Senate. In 2003, the bill was reintroduced in the House as H.R. 1997 by Rep. Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania. It was ultimately co-sponsored by 136 other members of the House before it passed by a vote of 254 in favor to 163 against on February 26, 2004. After several amendments were rejected, it was passed in the Senate by a vote of 61-38 on March 25, 2004. It was signed into law by President Bush on April 1, 2004.

Thanks for that info.

 

[hays1122]

Sentence for Having - counseling.

Sentence for performing - Life

I had often wondered who was the guilty one,the one performing the abortion or the one having the abortion.
From your answer I guess it’s the doctor or whoever performs the abortion.
There were a lot of young women being talked into having an abortion when this all started by making them believe that the unborn child is not really a human being yet.
So it really wasn’t their fault for believing someone who’s suppose to know what they are talking about since they are either an R.N. or a physician.
But I think the word has gotten out enough these days so that there is no more misunderstanding as to the fact that the unborn child is a human being with a beating heart from very early in their development.
I am very impressed by how much attention the Catholic Church is giving this topic.
I’m sure there are many babies being saved by what Catholics are doing through radio,TV and other media.
Keep up the good work!

 

[hxcCatholic413]

I have been reading about a locally highly publicized murder in our area where the woman murdered was pregnant. The authorities have arrested a suspect, and are going to charge her with a “double homicide”.

How can we justify charging this woman with murdering the unborn child of the victim, and still make it legal for a mother to walk into an abortion clinic and violently kill her own unborn child?

Does the state recognize the fetus as a child or doesn’t it? Who can understand this?

This is a great point I have thought of it in the past. I asked my Law teacher this question and she said “It depends how old the baby is, is the baby old enough to live outside the womb. If not than the person would be charged with one murder, not two.” So if the baby was two months old than the murderer would only be charged with one murder instead of two.

God Bless

 

[c659smith]

Capital punishment is not the same as abortion. There is a world of difference between society and the medical community aiding a mother in the slaughter of her INNOCENT child and the justice of that rare execution of a not innocent person.

The latter is sometimes morally permissable - though not desirable - while the former is an atrocity.

Making moral equivelance here may be politically okay, but it’s moral error.

The Church through the ages has suppported CP, but never abortion, though the Catholic Catechism now rightfully frowns on CP, it has never done other than condemn abortion.

The difference between capitol punishment and abortion is that the child in the womb is an innocent. Has done nothing in this life to warrant any type of punishment or harm.

A person on death row is not an innocent. Has sinned at some point in his or her life.

It would be like purposely doing a missle strike that houses pregant women and new born babies or doing a missle strike that houses murderers and robbers.

 

[elts1956]

I don’t know about this, but all pro-lifers are now the target of the MO state police. A thread in politics entitled “A New Threat to Freedom” has been started. Talk about an oxymoron!

How do you know this? And can you provide a ling to “A New Threat to Freedom”? Thanks.

 

[Squishy]

If I recall, she was between 5 and 6 months gestation.

Its murder to abort a featus at that age as well i believe?

 

[Don_L]

ryecrift said,

“…I have a hard time believing that if someone believed it was murder that they would have an abortion. Just my opinion.”

You’ve touched upon a great truth - I suspect inadverdently.

The entire game of serious sinning is to first call it a good -then do it. The slaughter of a innocent child by its her mother and her physician (healer) is accomplished only by everyone involved in this heineous crime against God, first by calling it a good -
“a woman’s choice over her own body.”

Voting for an infanticide president, that already has directly caused the slaughter of millions of unborn precious and unique humans - “He’ll bring good change and hope”

Everything we do that is evil must first be justified in our eyes. The purpose of confession is to get us to recognize and admit that we lied to ourselves about its goodness.

When Hitler killed millions of Jews he called it a good for Germany.

When dissendent betray God and rally against their own Church, (on abortion contraception, gay marriage etc.) they first call it freedom (a good) and demand democracy (a good) in place of hierarchy.

And abortion is because of it’s better for the family" or “name your self-deceit” - politicians lie because it’s good for the country to keep them elected. And how many sins are committed under the “Good” of newly created rights? Ans so it goes.

The flip side of this same “permission to self to sin” coin is to say you’re doing it to avoid an evil. So we conveniently ignore that we can do no evil to bring about a good -but we only talk about the GOOD that might result to ourselves - then do what we darn well know is evil.

Anecdote: I have a brother who left the Church sixty years ago because he says,"The priest said “all you in the back standing either sit down or get out” -so he got out and of course still angrily claims the Church to be at fault for his sin.

And finally my favorite: Adam really blamed God for his sin when he said, “It was that woman YOU made for me.”

 

[Traditional_Ang]

I have been reading about a locally highly publicized murder in our area where the woman murdered was pregnant. The authorities have arrested a suspect, and are going to charge her with a “double homicide”.

How can we justify charging this woman with murdering the unborn child of the victim, and still make it legal for a mother to walk into an abortion clinic and violently kill her own unborn child?

Does the state recognize the fetus as a child or doesn’t it? Who can understand this?

Teelyb:

Sadly enough, That was the reasoning of the U.S. Supreme Court in 1992 - PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PA. v. CASEY, 505 U.S. 833 (1992):
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=505&invol=833

Read the whole Decision. - It’s appalling what the Court had to ignore, and had to emphasize, in order to arrive at and defend this Decision.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

ryecrift said,

“…I have a hard time believing that if someone believed it was murder that they would have an abortion. Just my opinion.”

You’ve touched upon a great truth - I suspect inadverdently.

The entire game of serious sinning is to first call it a good -then do it. The slaughter of a innocent child by its her mother and her physician (healer) is accomplished only by everyone involved in this heineous crime against God, first by calling it a good -
“a woman’s choice over her own body.”

Voting for an infanticide president, that already has directly caused the slaughter of millions of unborn precious and unique humans - “He’ll bring good change and hope”

Everything we do that is evil must first be justified in our eyes. The purpose of confession is to get us to recognize and admit that we lied to ourselves about its goodness.

When Hitler killed millions of Jews he called it a good for Germany.

When dissendent betray God and rally against their own Church, (on abortion contraception, gay marriage etc.) they first call it freedom (a good) and demand democracy (a good) in place of hierarchy.

And abortion is because of it’s better for the family" or “name your self-deceit” - politicians lie because it’s good for the country to keep them elected. And how many sins are committed under the “Good” of newly created rights? Ans so it goes.

The flip side of this same “permission to self to sin” coin is to say you’re doing it to avoid an evil. So we conveniently ignore that we can do no evil to bring about a good -but we only talk about the GOOD that might result to ourselves - then do what we darn well know is evil.

Anecdote: I have a brother who left the Church sixty years ago because he says,"The priest said “all you in the back standing either sit down or get out” -so he got out and of course still angrily claims the Church to be at fault for his sin.

And finally my favorite: Adam really blamed God for his sin when he said, “It was that woman YOU made for me.”

Ryecrift and Dan:

See my previous post and read the U.S. Supreme Court decision Linked there. What they did is they called it the exercise of LIBERTY and EQUALITY. For convenience, it’s linked below…

PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PA v. CASEY, 505 U.S. 833 (1992)
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=505&invol=833

This Decision is just amazing for its “Serpentine Semantics” and how the Justices bought the Lies of the Liar and the Father of Lies.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Wow - Don’t you think that’s a little harsh - I mean even murderers today don’t get hard labor - (well, maybe some in Arizona) - and what would the counseling be for - I mean would it be to try to convince the person that what they had done was wrong/murder? I have a hard time believing that if someone believed it was murder that they would have an abortion. Just my opinion.

Ryecroft:

I don’t think you realize how much the Liar and Father of Lies has Lied to people in our Society. And, I don’t think you realize how much powerful a force DENIAL is.

Do you know women who’ve had Abortions? I’ve known a few…
One had three - She smoked as much dope to dull her senses as she could, and when her senses weren’t dulled, she was so depressed she was suicidal…
Another is the head of my 40 Days for Life Chapter. I think she’s still working on forgiving her abortionist, and that’s with the Grace of God…
Try Project Rachel - hopeafterabortion.com/
and Silent No More - silentnomoreawareness.org/

I hope these women can give you a different view of Abortion. If these can’t, Listen to these:
Abortion Clinic Emergency Calls (1 of 4)
youtube.com/watch?v=-Vh1frrx_-w&feature=related
Abortion Clinic Emergency Calls (2 of 4)
youtube.com/watch?v=HRYkeYHUWUU&feature=channel
Abortion Clinic Emergency Calls (3 of 4)
youtube.com/watch?v=z3nt4mGi_9w&feature=related
Baby Left to die at FL Abortion Clinic
youtube.com/watch?v=M4Dawr2suZ4&NR=1

If you looked for video 4 of 4, it refused to load 4 times. That’s why I substituted the story about the woman who became aware that she had killed her child and that her child had been thrown in the garbage.

The True Face of “Tolerance”

Pro-Abortion Rallies at Democratic National Convention
youtube.com/watch?v=RkT6gmcnAlo&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=qnHgaLgwSq4&feature=related

If you claim to be Pro-Choice, you need to answer when does LIFE begin. Because, The Right to LIBERTY means NOTHING without the Right to LIFE. And, HUMANITY can’t be determined by Geography, Development, Utility or Intelligence without excluding people we know are human beings… And, If we use Genetics to determine HUMANITY, Genetics are available from CONCEPTION… In which case, Abortion kills innocent human beings.

That is a clear violation of the Commandment - *“You shall not murder the innocent.” *That has to have precedence over ANY inconvenience to the woman, and that give us a HUMAN problem which requires a HUMAN solution, not the deliberate killing of the innocent.

I hopes this clarifies this matter.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[zalo]

I think it’s absurd to advocate life in prison for the doctor, but counseling for the mother!!! All things considered, it’s ultimately HER decision, not the doctor’s. Imagine the first woman (after overturning Roe) to get life in prison: with all spotlight, the media etc, do you think it would be good for the Church? Everybody will be reminded of the Dark Ages. So I don’t think outlawing abortion would be enforceable, and can hardly believe that all of those advocating “life in prison” would be willing to enforce it on their own family members or friends.