The absurdity of atheism

[Charlemagne_III]

There is no evidence that there is life after death.

It takes faith to believe there is life after bodily death.

All evidence points to there being nothing beyond our physical life within the natural universe.

All this presumes there is no immaterial soul that survives the death of the physical body.

That too is an article of faith on your part, a kind of miserable scientism.

 

[Aloysium]

I’m Atheist.

I’m 40 a recovering addict, have chronic pancreatitis, had cancer ( in remission) have a significant mental health issue ( is under control with medication).

Please don’t pretend that Atheists are mad at God. If you do, which God are we mad at? The Christian God, Hindu or Sikh Gods?

I cannot be any clearer, I do not believe in God. I do not accept that he exists. I am not mad at your God and I think life is grand.

I do not know a single non-believer who is mad at a God they don’t believe in.

23% of the Canadian population represent as Atheists, so don’t make sweeping generalizations about our health or state of mind.

23% are irreligious: agnostics, humanists, atheists and people who have no other religious affiliation.

You cannot be mad at a god you do not know.
But, you may be mad at life, running to nothingness for most of it. You may be mad at yourself.

The Christian God is Love. Any issues with love in your life?

Many have hope that the worm inside will die in time. Alcohol may temporarily numb, but only strengthens its hold.
Yes there’s hope that the pain that awakens one at night will have no one to awaken

I can’t really argue that there is evidence that there is life after death.
That goes along with the fact that I have no evidence that you exist.
Here I mean you; clearly I can imagine there is someone out there writing your words, thinking your thoughts.
I can imagine that he hurts when he stubs his toe; but, other than that my imgination can’t get to what is your truest reality.

Forget the nothingness; it is a false hope, an illusion. Christ is the Way to eternal happiness.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

All this presumes there is no immaterial soul that survives the death of the physical body.

That too is an article of faith on your part, a kind of miserable scientism.

Being immaterial it would be exceeding difficult if not impossible to prove there is a soul. Let alone assign other properties to it like immortality or what happens at death.

 

[tonyrey]

Being immaterial it would be exceeding difficult if not impossible to prove there is a soul. Let alone assign other properties to it like immortality or what happens at death.

You’re putting the cart before the horse. Our primary datum and sole certainty is not material reality but our stream of consciousness: our thoughts, choices, decisions, feelings and perceptions. We **infer **the existence of material objects from sense data whereas we have direct knowledge of our mental experiences. Moreover the most important things in life are intangible: truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love. The fact that so many people have died fighting for freedom demonstrates that spiritual reality is far more significant and important than the things we see, hear, taste, smell and touch. A mindless body is worthless whereas a bodiless mind is priceless!

 

[tonyrey]

There is no evidence that there is life after death.

There is no evidence that there is death without life after death!

It takes faith to believe there is life after bodily death.

It takes faith to believe there is no life after bodily death.

All evidence points to there being nothing beyond our physical life within the natural universe.

All the evidence points to our mind is our primary reality.

No one can fly unassisted.

No one can fly to a specific destination without insight and knowledge

 

[tonyrey]

Death is nothingness and nothingness is nothing to be afraid of.

What evidence is there that death is nothingness? Have you had direct experience of it?

 

[tonyrey]

I agree. However, just to provide the context of how this side debate started, what initially sparked the debate was the claim that atheists only remain atheists because of the comforts afforded to them allow them not to think about death. Stripping any of these comforts, such as youth from them, invariably they will become more inclined towards faith (or so the argument goes).

It’s true that people who are religious from mid-age forward tend to become more spiritual or religious as they age. The data backs this point. However, there is no indication that atheists follow the same trend. The atheists or non-religious mostly remain where they are. The best celebrity example of this is probably Christopher Hitchens, who died from a long battle with cancer. Never once did he regret or express doubt or fear about his convictions about there not being a god or an afterlife.

Christopher Hitchens needed alcohol to sustain him in his barren view of life. He spent his life attacking religion because he had nothing to defend! He needed religion because without it he would have been lost! It was his main source of inspiration: the very fact that he never expressed doubt or fear about his convictions demonstrates that atheism was his religion. He worshipped his own opinion as if he were an infallible authority. Intellectual pride was the fatal flaw at the root of his scheme of things because unwillingness to admit we may be wrong is a sign of weakness not strength. It demonstrates that we are unreasonable and incapable of intellectual development. As you point out “The atheists or non-religious mostly remain where they are.” They are trapped in the hole they have dug for themselves.

And a reputation based on notoriety is not worth having. It makes money at the expense of moral integrity. To attack Mother Teresa and Pope Francis who have done far more to help poor people than he ever did is evidence of spiritual decadence. They will be remembered long after he is forgotten because he has left nothing but cynicism and despair. By their fruits you shall know them…

 

[987mk]

What evidence is there that death is nothingness? Have you had direct experience of it?

Ok, then at the moment of death we are transported to a land of cotton candy.

There’s no proof this doesn’t happen, so according to your point of view, it’s entirely possible and likely.

 

[987mk]

Christopher Hitchens needed alcohol to sustain him in his barren view of life. .

Alcoholism and addiction is one of mankind’s great equalizers.

Believers and non-believers alike, both can succumb to addiction.

I also don’t believe that you know the reasons for Hitchens consumption of alcohol, you’re making an assumption.

 

[987mk]

Even if it’s granted that “there is no evidence that there is life after death” (which would mean that you would have to deny the belief system of almost EVERY SINGLE human culture throughout history)…

you made a positive statement: “Death is nothingness and nothingness is nothing to be afraid of”.

As such, you need to offer evidence for it.

Otherwise, it’s something you profess without a shred of evidence.

And coming from an atheist, that is most egregious.

Religion was created by man to explain the world in which man found himself living and to exert control over other men.

I guess I have no evidence that there is nothing at death. I’d bet my life on it though. Some people say that Christianity is a death cult. .

The thought of a paradise that exists outside of time and space isn’t something I can believe in. I used to believe it, but no longer.

 

[987mk]

What “evidence” did YOU have before YOU were born that YOU would be born?

Zippo, zilch, nada. And yet there you were.

Seems to me the unexpected is the way of things in the cases of things that really matter.

Sure, with contingent things that aren’t very critical, well, I suppose, induction as a method for “certainty” is as good as any.

Tell me, what “evidence” did you personally have, coming down the birth canal, that you would be who and what you are? I don’t recall any existing for birth before life. Do you?

I remember thinking about the stubby little things at the end of my arms and I couldn’t, for the life of me, come up with any purpose for them – but being born answered a whole lot of puzzles for me. No prior evidence, just a whole lot of surprises. :jrbirdman:

There was nothing before I came into existence.

I am very confident there is nothing when I die.

It’d be cool if there was something else, maybe there is, but I am certain the stories about the Christian and Muslim paradises aren’t real.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Except that CSG claimed that “life becomes much harder to cope with” when hope is taken away. He never denied other attributes are also required. However, this young woman is not coping with life, she is facing death.

When the time approaches I would say coping with life and facing death become one and the same.

That is a different question. Is death also harder to cope with when hope is removed? Sure. But that does not deny that courage, strength and love (and faith) are required above all.

I would agree that having hope (including a false hope) makes coping with death easier. I never denied that. I brought up the example that I did to show a more powerful way of coping with death. Does having faith that God’ll fix it all in the end allow room for courage, strength, and love? Absolutely, but to me believing an all-powerful deity is beyond you can (for some) mean less courage and less strength and, most importantly, a lessened need to cope with some of the facets that impending death can bring.

Look at CSG’s post again. He says that while religious have the hope that comes from the promise of an alleged perfectly just God and an afterlife, “many” western atheists are using their lives to distract themselves from facing death. He unfairly paints a picture with an overly broad brush, and I hoped the example I provided him would show his error.

In a thread predicated on the absurdity of atheism it’s humorous to think that atheists are pegged with the label of distracting themselves from death, when history shows the promise of life after death (whether it be The Elysian Fields, Valhalla, getting your own planet, reincarnation, whatever New Age higher level being thing is in vogue, or Heaven) allows believers of various stripes to distract themselves of their deaths.

Many of us are guilty of not wanting to face our own deaths. The unwarranted and unverifiable belief that we will survive death seems more absurd than living the life we know exists.

 

[PRmerger]

I guess I have no evidence that there is nothing at death.

I hope you remember this each and every time you object to Believers ostensibly believing something with no evidence.

You will need to remind yourself, “Oh. Wait. I do that myself. I believe in something without a shred of evidence”.

 

[Peter_Plato]

There was nothing before I came into existence.

Really?

Then how do you explain your coming into existence? You don’t suppose there had to be something outside of yourself to bring you into being? Seems very short-sighted, almost solipsistic of you to make such a claim.

Clearly something will go on existing when you go out of existence. The question is whether you will be at all conscious of that something.

Since you have no clear understanding of what consciousness is or how it is enabled, it would seem a profound error to trust what you think you know regarding what is beyond your capability to determine in the first place.

I am very confident there is nothing when I die.

This strikes me as very strange. I don’t think it is at all irrational to think that whatever it was that brought you as you into existence could also have the wherewithal to keep you in existence at its discretion. Considering that you as you have no power whatsoever to make yourself or even to know precisely what it is to keep yourself in existence, it would seem that whatever it was that enabled you in the first place could very likely have more of a say about what will be when you die than you would suppose.

 

[Peter_Plato]

When the time approaches I would say coping with life and facing death become one and the same.

I would agree that having hope (including a false hope) makes coping with death easier. I never denied that. I brought up the example that I did to show a more powerful way of coping with death. Does having faith that God’ll fix it all in the end allow room for courage, strength, and love? Absolutely, but to me believing an all-powerful deity is beyond you can (for some) mean less courage and less strength and, most importantly, a lessened need to cope with some of the facets that impending death can bring.

Look at CSG’s post again. He says that while religious have the hope that comes from the promise of an alleged perfectly just God and an afterlife, “many” western atheists are using their lives to distract themselves from facing death. He unfairly paints a picture with an overly broad brush, and I hoped the example I provided him would show his error.

In a thread predicated on the absurdity of atheism it’s humorous to think that atheists are pegged with the label of distracting themselves from death, when history shows the promise of life after death (whether it be The Elysian Fields, Valhalla, getting your own planet, reincarnation, whatever New Age higher level being thing is in vogue, or Heaven) allows believers of various stripes to distract themselves of their deaths.

Many of us are guilty of not wanting to face our own deaths. The unwarranted and unverifiable belief that we will survive death seems more absurd than living the life we know exists.

I think it is also odd that you portray what believers do as a “distraction” from death when I have always supposed that what believers do is try to find the deeper meaning of life in death. Which means that believers are all about finding the deeper and possibly hidden meaning in all things beyond their mere egoism or what is confined by and to their limited temporal existence. In other words, by facing the mystery beyond themselves, believers are showing a courage, hope and faith far beyond what unbelievers can even fathom precisely because unbelievers close the shutters at death and are afraid to look beyond it in the same instant as they insist there is nothing beyond it.

Considering what the possibilities are beyond death is an openness to what is beyond ego, beyond self-determination, and beyond our control. That very much takes courage. To say, “Nope, death is it!” is denial pure and simple. It is like saying, “I won’t love others because they will die and I will lose them, therefore, love is nothing and everything, in the end, is nothing to me.” Which is, essentially, the position of…

There was nothing before I came into existence.

I am very confident there is nothing when I die.

This is the same issue, by the way, that I have with the flying spaghetti monster as representative of what atheists think theists are up to. It is like reducing all the possible meaning and infinite potential in the universe to a caricature. The question is what warrant does anyone have to do that?

 

[Rohzek]

Alcoholism and addiction is one of mankind’s great equalizers.

Believers and non-believers alike, both can succumb to addiction.

I also don’t believe that you know the reasons for Hitchens consumption of alcohol, you’re making an assumption.

Thank you! If I had to wager why he was an alcoholic though, it would be because he was a workaholic. His reported work schedule was insane, at least for me it would be. I wouldn’t blame him for drinking as often as he did in order to unwind.

Also, Hitchens was a long-time alcoholic way before he began his anti-religious campaign. He was a traditional Marxist in many respects, so his ideological motivations covered a wide range. He only became harshly anti-religious and thus joined the New Atheist movement because of 9/11.

 

[inocente]

I’m 40 a recovering addict, have chronic pancreatitis, had cancer ( in remission) have a significant mental health issue ( is under control with medication).

Don’t know how to put this into words, except to say have my utmost respect bro.

 

[PRmerger]

Don’t know how to put this into words, except to say have my utmost respect bro.

Ditto!

 

[HelenRose]

There was nothing before I came into existence.

I am very confident there is nothing when I die.

It’d be cool if there was something else, maybe there is, but I am certain the stories about the Christian and Muslim paradises aren’t real.

One of the bad habits I have had is stating as an absolute my thought and beliefs.

I no longer state “God exists” I state, “I believe that God exists.” or “I have chosen to believe that God exists.” or “The arguments for the existence of God make the most sense for me.”

I have come to realize that there are valid arguments against the existence of God. I don’t agree with those arguments. I have come to realize that there are valid arguments for the existence of God and these arguments make sense to me.

So when you say, “There was nothing before I came in existence” I am assuming that you don’t mean that the universe did not exist before your came into existence but that there will be no existence for you after you die.

In any case, since you have no way to prove or to disprove your position, I would suggest that you say, “I do not believe in existence of anything prior to the big bang. I do not believe that there is existence for me after death”

One of the arguments for the existence of God is in the word “reason”. Without God there can be no reason for our existence or for the existence of anything. To discuss “reason” is unreasonable if there is no reason for existence in the first place. Everything we may discuss is unreasonable so why bother?

 

[987mk]

I hope you remember this each and every time you object to Believers ostensibly believing something with no evidence.

You will need to remind yourself, “Oh. Wait. I do that myself. I believe in something without a shred of evidence”.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ohb3w7GL1qa6ipw.gif

You are certain a heaven as described in Christianity exists. Why is that?

The happenstance at having been born in a place and time where you were introduced to Christianity.

I used to believe in heaven as well. I used to be absolutely certain that heaven was real and I remember thinking ’ how can anyone not believe in God?’

I’ve been there, I understand how you think and how certain you are. I get it.

There’s zero evidence that the supernatural exists and I totally understand that you believe that the supernatural is just as real as our physical universe.

It’s ok.