The Absurdity of Atheism

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Charlemagne_III said:
If they do good for the sake of doing good only, what motivates them?
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Compassion.
Charlemagne_III said:
Whereas you will find thousands of Christians institutions that do these things with the promise of reward.
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I see… you don’t do it because it is the right thing to do, you do it for the “reward”. I rarely have seen such an honest admission.
Charlemagne_III said:
And what is there in atheism that even encourages these virtues? Nothing.
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Nothing indeed. People don’t do it because there is someone with a cocked gun behind their head… which makes the deeds even more valuable. Atheism is neutral, it does not offer rewards, it does not threaten with repercussions… it has nothing to do with the “carrot and stick”, which is only deeded for mules and donkeys, but not for humans…
 
Solmyr said:
Compassion.
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But atheism says nothing about compassion. If you don’t have it, that’s good too because there is no moral imperative in atheism per se for compassion.

Whereas at the end of Matthew 25 Jesus talks with profound and passionate conviction about the necessity of the carrot and the stick. 🤷

Please be careful you don’t refer to Christians as donkeys.

"Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 
Solmyr said:
And you don’t care about the “reward” in the hereafter? It leaves you unimpressed? Without the slightest intent to hurt your feelings… I doubt it, very much. For atheists there are no “mysteries” of existence. We give sense and purpose to our lives. We can cope with the problems of life without the transcendental “crutch” of the hereafter. We can accept that sometimes: “life is a ‘female dog’, and then you die”. There are quite a few people around the board who keep on saying that atheism is valueless… of course I cannot express my true opinion about them, but let me say that it would not be a term of endearment. Not even close.
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Everything is here and now. Everything that is transient will pass. Solomon put it quite clearly, we die and all this ends. While some may achieve a historical notation, stories are all that remain as we are forgotten by the world. Others will spend what we have earned, Whatever power we wielded, we will leave as helpless as we were when entered into this world. All pleasure is ephemeral, whatever there is, this will all end in pain. All one can do is to live each day, taking joy in one’s labours and being good to one another. There is no “reward” at the end but the becoming of whom one has chosen during one’s brief existence in this world as an eternal being in time. The present is where we decide, the past is fixed by those choices, and the future open to possibilities, dwindles to where we will be set in stone forever. But, we are sinners, and it is Jesus Christ who saves and redeems us. We do not get the “reward” we deserve, through His grace and mercy. He is the God whom atheists do not know when they claim there is not God.
 
Solmyr said:
Compassion.

I see… you don’t do it because it is the right thing to do, you do it for the “reward”. I rarely have seen such an honest admission.
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And who said that?
Are you capable of having good faith discussion?
 
Charlemagne III:
But atheism says nothing about compassion.
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Absolutely correct. Just as Catholicism says nothing about the best voltage level for domestic electricity supply, and socialism says nothing about which stars are most likely to have planets with liquid water.

People can arrive at atheism by any number of routes and due to any number of different reasons. Atheism has neither dogma nor doctrine. Atheism is a view on one specific issue. It is, at least, a rejection of claims that a God or gods exist (so-called ‘weak atheism’) and, at most, a belief that no God or gods exist (‘strong atheism’). That’s it. Nothing else.

It’s not a world-view, except for a view on the existence of gods, nor is it a pattern for how to live one’s life, again except for the absence of belief in gods. Empathy, compassion, morality, views about why our universe exists or how life on earth began may be influenced by someone’s atheism, but they are not a part of atheism.
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tonyrey:
The very fact that atheism says nothing implies that it has no explanation which is hardly a rational basis for choosing how to live. In other words it is a defective position to adopt.
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To contend that atheism is absurd because it does not offer a rational basis for how to live one’s life is a straw-man argument. Atheism does not purport to offer anything except a view on the existence of a God or gods. I could as easily dismiss Christianity as absurd because it does not provide a cost-efficient solution for me to get to and from my work-place. But since Christianity does not deal with that sort of issue, I would be foolish to dismiss it on such grounds.

People can arrive at atheism by any number of routes and due to any number of different reasons. Atheism has neither dogma nor doctrine. Consequently, atheism does not attempt to provide answers to all of the questions for which theists believe God is the answer. Get five atheists in a room and you’ll probably get six opinions on each issue. For some of these questions, science or philosophy have proposed alternative possible answers. For some questions the honest answer is “I don’t know.” But these answers are not a part of atheism, however much those who argue against it might wish them to be.
 
Nixbits said:
To contend that atheism is absurd because it does not offer a rational basis for how to live one’s life is a straw-man argument. Atheism does not purport to offer anything except a view on the existence of a God or gods.
…
People can arrive at atheism by any number of routes and due to any number of different reasons. Atheism has neither dogma nor doctrine. Consequently, atheism does not attempt to provide answers to all of the questions for which theists believe God is the answer. Get five atheists in a room and you’ll probably get six opinions on each issue.
…
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Demonstrating the topic very well.
We get that atheists claim not to believe in anything.
But, the idea that atheism does not propose something for belief is demonstrably false and dishonest.
As evidenced by your presence on a Catholic message board to express, constrast, compare, and propose your own beliefs. The more honest thing to say is that atheism doesn’t propose organized or coherent beliefs.
(glad you’re here, let’s just be honest with one another)
 
Charlemagne_III said:
If they do good for the sake of doing good only, what motivates them?

What motivates them to care for the sick, the aged, the ignorant, the poor, the imprisoned?

And where are the institutions of atheists that do all these things **without **promise of reward?

Whereas you will find thousands of Christians institutions that do these things with the promise of reward.

And what is there in atheism that even encourages these virtues? Nothing.
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Empathy and compassion are motivators. Doctors Without Boarders is one such institution. It is because we have just one life that makes atheists do good. Not for fear of being condemned for not believing nor for kneeling in worship in a “eternal paradise”. Do good just for goodness sake. Empathy guides as well as wanting a better society.
 
NM505StKate said:
Empathy and compassion are motivators. Doctors Without Boarders is one such institution. It is because we have just one life that makes atheists do good. Not for fear of being condemned for not believing nor for kneeling in worship in a “eternal paradise”. Do good just for goodness sake. Empathy guides as well as wanting a better society.
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That’s a great expression of Christian morality.
👍
 
clem456 said:
Right.
You assumed I meant Christian as exclusive of non-Christians.
Why did you assume that?
No fixing required.
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If it’s applicable to more than Christians then placing the word “Christian” in there might be over-qualifying the statement. Take the statement “If those electronics get exposed to North American water than they may short out.” The “North American” qualifier is superfluous and could have been left out.
 
clem456 said:
Right.
You assumed I meant Christian as exclusive of non-Christians.
Why did you assume that?
No fixing required.
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Because being moral is not a Christian thing. The Golden Rule has been around a whole lot longer that monotheistic faiths.
 
ThinkingSapien said:
If it’s applicable to more than Christians then placing the word “Christian” in there might be over-qualifying the statement. Take the statement “If those electronics get exposed to North American water than they may short out.” The “North American” qualifier is superfluous and could have been left out.
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please go back and read the context of the post/reply
 
The claim that Christians do good for some sort of future reward rather than to do God’s will which is to love, is nonsense based not only on the Christians I know, but on what the Church teaches.
The closer to being Christ-like, the closer one is to Love itself.
No one has suggested that only Christians can love.
It should also be clarified that to act out purely as an emotional response, whether it is pity or fear or anger, diminishes the morality of a particular act.
When your heart is hardened, that is when we can be most loving, acting not out of some superficial feeling but doing what is best for the other for that reason only.
As to empathy, it means solely to understand the other person’s circumstances and how they are being affected. It does not demand a morally correct response. Empathy is not love.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
But atheism says nothing about compassion. If you don’t have it, that’s good too because there is no moral imperative in atheism per se for compassion.
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Would say whether you support waterboarding, and if so, how that qualifies you to lecture others on compassion?
 
inocente said:
Would say whether you support waterboarding, and if so, how that qualifies you to lecture others on compassion?
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Waterboarding is compassionate toward the thousands of potential victims, but certainly not to a few evil culprits.

Please stay on topic and try not to lecture others on compassion. 😉
 
NM505StKate said:
Simple. They make the most of the life they have now. This one life on a moat of dust in the vastness of space. Doing good for the sake of doing good and not for some reward that has not been shown to exist.
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clem456 said:
A great statement of Christian moral motivation.
👍
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I know what both of you mean, but feel compelled to say that do-gooders are anathema in charity work, because they cause havoc in their desire to do good.

The person who does good by giving a beggar twenty dollars never stops to ask first what the beggar will spend it on, and never sees the beggar die later that day from alcohol poisoning.

The Good Samaritan, on the other hand, is a model for charity work. He is motivated not by doing good but by compassion. He knows what he’s doing, and when he’s done it he doesn’t hang around but gets on with his own life.

And Jesus chose men revered by His audience, a priest and Levite, to walk on by, and chose a Samaritan, from a tribe despised by His audience, to show mercy, to teach that a person’s beliefs are irrelevant here, which I take it was St Kate’s point.
 
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