The accursed tree

[water]

Where there are three gods they are divine. I however do not worship them. Do I know they exist? Yes, I do.

As a Christian, we believe in the Trinity - Three but One, One but Three. Do you believe Jesus is God?

 

[PaulDupre]

Wait a minute, GH. Perhaps you are being too hard on yourself.

If you make a “mistake”, that is, you do something objectively wrong without really knowing it was wrong, then it is not sin. Sin is a “crime of intent” as we say in the legal trade. You have to be fully aware that the action is wrong, and then do it anyway, in defiance of God’s will for that action to be a sin.

God is merciful,
Paul

 

[Godhead]

Good job, Godhead. When you are explaining your point without insulting people you are really quite erudite. I understand your point of view, having been through my own period of nature worship while I was searching for meaning and truth, as you are now.

We Catholics understand your observations somewhat differently. We see the glory of nature, and the perfect and grand systems of which it is composed, as a glimpse into the mind of God. In the New Testament, St. Paul taught that even the heathens were without excuse in denying God, because the evidence of His glory and His love was all around them in nature.

The key for me was reading the biography of Sir Isaac Newton when I was about 20 years old. He (like all the great Christian scientists) believed fervently that to unlock the mysteries of science was to know the mind of God.

One last thing - you asked “Why worship anything at all?”. We worship because it is our first and best duty to worship our creator. After all, He gave us life and all that we need to sustain life (the sun and the earth and the air and all of the other things you rightly mentioned). But why does God want us to worship Him? It’s not like He needs it. He needs us like a hole in the head! But he wants us to experience the joy of knowing, loving and serving Him in this life and sharing His joy, power and perfect love in the next life.

God love you,
Paul

I understand completely. Don’t get me wrong.

I see the glory of nature just as you do. However, I would want an earth church rather than a temple. Green is more pleasant to the eyes than gold, well at least in my opinion. Why not hold sermons outside–that mass I would attend. I’m not going to be drawn into any house unless there is grass on the ground, birds in the sky, a gentle breeze over the trees–this is the most desireable lot to worship, not houses made of brick and stone.

 

[Godhead]

As a Christian, we believe in the Trinity - Three but One, One but Three. Do you believe Jesus is God?

Yea, I believe that Jesus is God. But I’m not going to worship any being as long as there is life in me. Yea, I know what you’re going to say, without Jesus there is no life in me. So be it. O well. I’ll get over it.

 

[Godhead]

Wait a minute, GH. Perhaps you are being too hard on yourself.

If you make a “mistake”, that is, you do something objectively wrong without really knowing it was wrong, then it is not sin. Sin is a “crime of intent” as we say in the legal trade. You have to be fully aware that the action is wrong, and then do it anyway, in defiance of God’s will for that action to be a sin.

God is merciful,
Paul

O, well, I don’t do that. I’ve always been more inclined to choose good over evil. Unlike others I listen to what my gut feeling has to say. Is this wrong? If it is, I won’t do it. There is nothing to persuade me to do it.

 

[water]

I’m not going to be drawn into any house unless there is grass on the ground, birds in the sky, a gentle breeze over the trees–this is the most desireable lot to worship, not houses made of brick and stone.

From what you’ve been discussing, I can see that you have a great love or attach to nature. Well, I consider that is a great gift you got there. Not everybody can look at the nature the way you do. I know that the Native Americans respect nature a lot too.

You mention about trees. Would you attend a church where the church is made up of wood then? also, the bricks and stones are part of the nature too.

 

[PaulDupre]

I understand completely. Don’t get me wrong.

I see the glory of nature just as you do. However, I would want an earth church rather than a temple. Green is more pleasant to the eyes than gold, well at least in my opinion. Why not hold sermons outside–that mass I would attend. I’m not going to be drawn into any house unless there is grass on the ground, birds in the sky, a gentle breeze over the trees–this is the most desireable lot to worship, not houses made of brick and stone.

Of course we can, and should, worship everywhere. And I too feel in awe of God when I watch a sunset over the ocean or hear the cooing of a newborn baby.

But God has asked us to worship in community as well as privately. Church buildings are really just places built to be convenient to corporate worship. When you have 1500 people getting together for mass, from ages 1 month to 100 years, you need a safe and comfortable place to get together.

I get what you’re saying, though. And I appreciate your sincerity.

God love you,
Paul

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I deal with my sin. I just will judge the way I want to judge and measure the way I want to measure. This is my judgement. I was born without knowledge. I am entitled to mistakes or what you call sin. Once I realize that I have committed sin, I gain knowledge. Therefore, I can change. I will NOT be held accountable to any God for my mistakes or sins. I was born without knowledge.

You are right to say you will judge and measure the way you want to. And when you realise sin you can change.

God is not a “Hanging Judge” waiting to string us up. He takes into consideration how we judge others. Thats why He looks at the heart.

Its been said abit but mistakes are what makes a person human. Sin is outright wrong to another being. You may be hard on yourself as Paul posted.

 

[PaulDupre]

O, well, I don’t do that. I’ve always been more inclined to choose good over evil. Unlike others I listen to what my gut feeling has to say. Is this wrong? If it is, I won’t do it. There is nothing to persuade me to do it.

I’m glad to hear that. I also listen to my gut feeling as well as my intellect. It is a delicate balancing act, because our feelings can deceive us. So we need to check our feelings against reason and common sense. I wish I knew that when I was young - I wouldn’t have done so many stupid things and hurt so many people.

God love you,
Paul

 

[kellie]

A link to what? Telling me that snakes used to walk on their legs back in evolution? Perhaps, what was before a snake had legs but that does not make it a snake. A snake is a thing in itself. Crawling on their bellies defines the reality of a snake.
O yea, in previous post I said some snakes had legs. I was thinking of one thing but actually meant another. To fix that mistake, actually some lizards have no legs. That is what I meant. It is irrelevant.

I am finding it awfully hard to understand your point of view.

You said “snakes have always crawled on their bellies” and therefore “Genesis is a lie as it says the snake wasn’t crawling on it’s belly but after deceiving Adam and Eve God told it would crawl on it belly forever” ( I have paraphrased you).

My link clearly shows snakes have not always crawled on their bellies.

“Crawling on it’s belly” does not define what a snake is, otherwise a worm would be a snake.

 

[kellie]

The serpents light has you mezmorized. There really was no forbidden tree in the midst of any garden. Adam and Eve were not real people. If you knew anything about historical accuracy of biblical scripture then you would know that Adam used to be male human being and Eve used to be female human being. Adam and Eve were added afterwards. The story of creation is an allegory. In allegory we use symbolic fictional characters and truth and generalizations to explain existence. I’m sorry to tell you that there was no Adam and no Eve. In Hebrew, the original root of the word Adam meant man. And the feminine Adam meant woman. Little known fact. They were not actual people.

To examine this allegory further, anyone who knows anything knows that the serpent has always been the embodiment of wisdom. The serpent symbolized wisdom. Wisdom opened man and woman’s eyes to the knowledge between good and evil. Wisdom, not an actual serpent gave man this knowledge.

We can really twist this story around. By saying even though God commanded man not to eat from the tree. Man came across wisdom and wisdom opened his eyes. There really was no piece of fruit, guys. It’s a freaking allegory. An allegory is not an actual account of events.

Man did not actually disobey God because God told him not to eat from the tree of knowledge. But rather man came across wisdom which inevitably opened his eyes to good and evil. God did not tell man to not seek wisdom. Are you telling me that God did not know that wisdom would lead to this knowledge?

Once you learn to adore the serpent that God created you can move on. But until that point when you get it out of your heads that the serpent was not actually the devil, you can do nothing.

You have taken a “fable” and interpreted it your own way and come to your own moral.
It is like taking the Aesop fable of “The Hare & the Tortoise”, which has the moral of “slow and steady wins the race” and interpreting it yourself to mean “hey, I can slacken off in life, and I will still make it to the end, it doesn’t matter if I don’t win”.

Unfortunately for you, when the Bible is taken in complete context, you find that your interpretation doesn’t fit in.

 

[zerinus]

The serpent tempted Adam and Eve with knowledge. I really don’t understand you people. Could you help me understand your logic and reasoning? The serpent gave you knowledge between good and evil. What is so wrong with having knowledge between good and evil? Can you help me understand, I’m confused? I thought it was a good thing to have knowledge between good and evil; in that way we could choose good and see our mistakes. If having knowledge between good and evil is evil then I think it is good to be this sort of evil. Can someone please help me understand, what evil did the serpent commit by opening our eyes to good and evil?

Secondly, your God cursed the earth because someone ate a piece of fruit? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Can someone help me understand, the logic and reasoning behind these two subjects?

The first thing you need to do is to change your login name; it is disrespectful to the Deity.

My Godhead is in heaven, and I address him in my prayers. I am not going to address you by the same sacred title. In some forums they have rules that people should not adopt names that are rude, vulgar, salacious, insulting, or blasphemous. Your screen name is clearly the latter; and I am not going to debate with you under that name.

I am asking the board admin to order you to change your screen name or get the hell out. Once that has been sorted out, the other issues you have raised can be discussed.

zerinus

 

[Godhead]

Have you ever told a lie?

No I never lie.

 

[Godhead]

From what you’ve been discussing, I can see that you have a great love or attach to nature. Well, I consider that is a great gift you got there. Not everybody can look at the nature the way you do. I know that the Native Americans respect nature a lot too.

You mention about trees. Would you attend a church where the church is made up of wood then? also, the bricks and stones are part of the nature too.

The only church I would attend is one that has the sky for a roof.

 

[Godhead]

Of course we can, and should, worship everywhere. And I too feel in awe of God when I watch a sunset over the ocean or hear the cooing of a newborn baby.

But God has asked us to worship in community as well as privately. Church buildings are really just places built to be convenient to corporate worship. When you have 1500 people getting together for mass, from ages 1 month to 100 years, you need a safe and comfortable place to get together.

I get what you’re saying, though. And I appreciate your sincerity.

God love you,
Paul

Outside is very comfortable. People are just afraid to get dirty when they sit on the grass.

 

[Godhead]

You are right to say you will judge and measure the way you want to. And when you realise sin you can change.

God is not a “Hanging Judge” waiting to string us up. He takes into consideration how we judge others. Thats why He looks at the heart.

Its been said abit but mistakes are what makes a person human. Sin is outright wrong to another being. You may be hard on yourself as Paul posted.

What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger. I bathe in pain. I will never be delivered from it nor do I wish to.

 

[Godhead]

I’m glad to hear that. I also listen to my gut feeling as well as my intellect. It is a delicate balancing act, because our feelings can deceive us. So we need to check our feelings against reason and common sense. I wish I knew that when I was young - I wouldn’t have done so many stupid things and hurt so many people.

God love you,
Paul

Our feelings only deceive us when we are selfish.

 

[water]

The only church I would attend is one that has the sky for a roof.

I suppose you are sitting outside somewhere in a barn field and get wireless internet connection and surf Catholic.com

 

[Godhead]

I am finding it awfully hard to understand your point of view.

You said “snakes have always crawled on their bellies” and therefore “Genesis is a lie as it says the snake wasn’t crawling on it’s belly but after deceiving Adam and Eve God told it would crawl on it belly forever” ( I have paraphrased you).

My link clearly shows snakes have not always crawled on their bellies.

“Crawling on it’s belly” does not define what a snake is, otherwise a worm would be a snake.

Listen, Adam and Eve were not real people. In the Hebrew text, the original text Adam meant man and the feminine Adam of Hebrew meant woman. The serpent is not a real snake. The serpent has always been the symbol for wisdom. Adam and Eve did not really disobey God. There really never was any tree. Man came across wisdom and his eyes were opened to good and evil. That is what the whole story is about.
There never really was any fruit. The story is an allegory. The serpent is a symbolic character representing wisdom.
Woman was not really formed from a rib.

 

[water]

Listen, Adam and Eve were not real people. In the Hebrew text, the original text Adam meant man and the feminine Adam of Hebrew meant woman. The serpent is not a real snake. The serpent has always been the symbol for wisdom. Adam and Eve did not really disobey God. There really never was any tree. Man came across wisdom and his eyes were opened to good and evil. That is what the whole story is about.
There never really was any fruit. The story is an allegory. The serpent is a symbolic character representing wisdom.

let set this aside for a second.
Do you believe Jesus is God?