The act of God not wanting evil is what created evil?

[Ben_Sinner]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

 

[STT]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

God’s knowledge of creation is subjected to individual decisions therefore it is not up to Him to create a creation without evil. It is beyond His power to create a creation without evil unless He creates machines.

 

[St_Francis]

Since evil is the absence of good, it was not created.

 

[AlphaFoxtrotNW]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

I am not sure about it 100% but this sounds like a rephrased “Problem of Evil”. My personal theory is that Satan taking the form of a snake, btw if i remember correctly is cast out of heaven at this time, tempts Eve to eat the fruit of knowledge. Now the problem is that the Garden is a seperate place from Earth if I understand correctly so how Satan got into the Garden is beyond me. I believe that God is all good and loving so the idea that he created evil doesnt sit well for me. Maybe someone more well versed in the subject of genesis and theology could correct any factual errors I might have made.

 

[v21337304]

God did not create evil. That is a heresy. God created all things good. It was the evil angels that decided to go against God. Yes, they had free will. But free will means to choose between two goods. God never gave permission to the angels and then to man to do evil. Still God had to test all to see that they deserved Heaven. Thus Lucifer now Satan chose not to do good. And so did man. Hell was not invented for man, but if his choice is to do evil, so be it. Jesus himself was very sorry when He saw how hard hearted the PHarisees were in ignoring God’s commandments. Thus it was the evil angels and then man who invented evil.

 

[Simeon_Hovey]

If, by some chance, God were to destroy Satan today how would this change anything about the world or the people in it?

God cannot create evil because God is light (illumines) and there is no darkness in him. It is we who create evil by not doing the will of God – it’s just that some create far more evil than others due, mainly, to selfishness and the willingness to take what they want without caring who they hurt.

I am not trying to say that evil doesn’t exist because I know it does. I’m a US Army war veteran and have seen, and been part of, the worst evils on earth. Also, when my legs were paralyzed I was later sent to a VA hospital and early one AM I felt the presence of evil enter my room. I do not know why it chose to show up but it did and it was a terrible thing to behold, however, when I said the word “Jesus” out loud it immediately disappeared.

 

[Wesrock]

It depends on what we mean by create and exist. “Evil” is not a substance in its own right. It isn’t an existent thing in itself. Evil is a deprivation, a lack.

God did create beings of various grades of goodness (keeping in mind that outside of God, everything created must have goodness in a finite way). That there would be with grades, and that deprivations in goodness within created beings, and that beings would have free will to affect others and themselves in this way, means God did plan such a world in which such deprivations could happen.

Saint Thomas gives his thoughts on the matter in Summa contra Gentiles, Book II, Chapter 45. I recommend reading the whole section (it’s a few paragraphs, really). To quote just part, because I find it helpful (even if some won’t be satisfied):

"[4] Then, too, a thing approaches to God’s likeness the more perfectly as it resembles Him in more things. Now, goodness is in God, and the outpouring of goodness into other things. Hence, the creature approaches more perfectly to God’s likeness if it is not only good, but can also act for the good of other things, than if it were good only in itself; that which both shines and casts light is more like the sun than that which only shines. But no creature could act for the benefit of another creature unless Plurality and inequality existed in created things. For the agent is distinct from the patient and superior to it. In order that there might be in created things a perfect representation of God, the existence of diverse grades among them was therefore necessary.

…

[9] To sum up: The diversity and inequality in created things are not the result of chance, nor of a diversity of matter, nor of the intervention of certain causes or merits, but of the intention of God Himself, who wills to give the creature such perfection as it is possible for it to have."

 

[Aloysium]

Since evil is the absence of good, it was not created.

This.
To bring into existence a creature capable of love, necessarily implies that it can do otherwise. Or else it wouldn’t be love, would it.
Supernovas exploding and galaxies rotating around immense black holes is pretty spectacular, but it pales in comparison to what is happening here as we exchange ideas.

 

[fhansen]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

Obviously God deemed that it was better to create, including creatures with free will in that creation, than not to create, knowing that great good would ultimately come about even as His creation would abuse their free will, with evil resulting for a time. Evil, even though it is a negation of or distraction from good, is nonetheless a reality which was never originally experienced in Eden and won’t be in heaven. And this is why Jesus came to deal with it. Evil is to stray from the will of God in one manner or another. Jesus came to reconcile and restore His wayward creation back to justice, back to right relationship with Its Creator.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

dont think of evil as a creation on its own, but rather a resulting conceptual phenomena that comes about when what God does create rejects him.

You can’t measure cold, but only the difference or absence of heat of one thing vs. another. You can’t add coldness to something, you can only remove heat from it.

You can’t measure darkness, but only the difference or absence of light. You can’t add darkness to something, but only reduce or block light from it.

Likewise, evil is not a quantitative object, but rather a conceptual construct used to describe a lack of true quantitative objects like goodness, love, and conformity to God’s will.

Ultimately evil is not really created, but is an allowed byproduct. I think this quote from St. Pope John XXIII sums the concept up well:

If God created shadows, it was to better emphasise the light.

• Pope John XXIII

God allows us to freely choose him. When we do, that light can be seen and distinguished from the evil and darkness that we can now perceive because of the light. By allowing the darkness, it enables us to see the both beauty of an individual light and the tragic sorrow of the absence of it.

 

[Vonsalza]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

I’ll jump in

I’m a man that prefers deductive reasoning over inductive reasoning while admitting that the former still relies on the debated truth value of the premises and is, in that way, still “tainted” by inductivity

I deduce that only God is infinitely good and all things apart from Him are, thus, finitely good at best. Humanity is an great example of this “finite goodness” in that it is corruptible as we see with Eve and then, in turn, Adam.

Further, I deduce that the machinism of their fall was the completion of their free moral agency by the snake. Prior to that beast’s influence, Adam and Eve only knew sublime goodness - there was no sin/fallen world with which to juxtapose their state. Thus the fall occurred when they chose to eat the apple, not by necessarily “biting in”. Rebellion had been committed when the desire for the divine knowledge was manifested, even if the snake were to tail-slap the apple from Eve’s hand as she drew it close. And as the completion of free moral agency in Eve was done by the snake, we must blame the snake.

Ergo, the real question is "Why did God create Lucifer with the capacity to create the genesis of all rebellion (with his own rebellion and subsequent fall).

Your quote of “Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world” might not be a fully true premise. We know all things ultimately serve the will of God.

In conclusion, you must believe in a God that created sin by a matter of degrees (Lucifer started it and God created Lucifer) to fulfill His divine will OR you must believe in a God who rules a universe He created where sin was a cosmic accident, outside of God’s will.

I choose the former.

 

[ffg]

Being the Author of creation is NOT the author of a creation’s thought (which leads to action).

Read wisdom 1 for a good analysis on this point.

 

[fhansen]

I’ll jump in

I’m a man that prefers deductive reasoning over inductive reasoning while admitting that the former still relies on the debated truth value of the premises and is, in that way, still “tainted” by inductivity

I deduce that only God is infinitely good and all things apart from Him are, thus, finitely good at best. Humanity is an great example of this “finite goodness” in that it is corruptible as we see with Eve and then, in turn, Adam.

Further, I deduce that the machinism of their fall was the completion of their free moral agency by the snake. Prior to that beast’s influence, Adam and Eve only knew sublime goodness - there was no sin/fallen world with which to juxtapose their state. Thus the fall occurred when they chose to eat the apple, not by necessarily “biting in”. Rebellion had been committed when the desire for the divine knowledge was manifested, even if the snake were to tail-slap the apple from Eve’s hand as she drew it close. And as the completion of free moral agency in Eve was done by the snake, we must blame the snake.

Ergo, the real question is "Why did God create Lucifer with the capacity to create the genesis of all rebellion (with his own rebellion and subsequent fall).

Your quote of “Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world” might not be a fully true premise. We know all things ultimately serve the will of God.

In conclusion, you must believe in a God that created sin by a matter of degrees (Lucifer started it and God created Lucifer) to fulfill His divine will OR you must believe in a God who rules a universe He created where sin was a cosmic accident, outside of God’s will.

I choose the former.

Sin was outside God’s will, but not unforeseen, of course; God created knowing full well that man would sin, and deemed it worthwhile to create nonetheless. I tend to believe that the voice of satan-of temptation-would always be a possibility for a created being with “finite goodness”. Lucifer, himself, fell, presumably without any external influence for example. God cannot be the author of evil; only created beings glorying in who they are and what they’ve been given-in their finite, created selves IOW, preferring *that *over their Creator- could bring about evil by valuing such lesser things over more deserving greater ones.

 

[Vonsalza]

Sin was outside God’s will, but not unforeseen, of course; God created knowing full well that man would sin, and deemed it worthwhile to create nonetheless.

Respectfully, that is a contradiction. If sin was outside God’s will, how could He knowingly create imminently sinful man?

You seem to imply that God couldn’t create man without the eventuality of sin. That is a limitation upon God that I find no basis for and I’d appreciate if you shared why you think it’s not only possible, but plausible.

I tend to believe that the voice of satan-of temptation-would always be a possibility for a created being with “finite goodness”.

We agree fully.

Lucifer, himself, fell, presumably without any external influence for example. God cannot be the author of evil; only created beings glorying in who they are and what they’ve been given-in their finite, created selves IOW, preferring *that *over their Creator- could bring about evil by valuing such lesser things over more deserving greater ones.

As I stated previously, the real question is “Why did God create Lucifer?” Either Lucifer is, in his own way, carrying out God’s will OR God was blind-sided by his own creation - which doesn’t “jive” with the idea of an omniscient and omnipotent God.

 

[rinnie]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

The word of God. l Tim all God created was good. Man created evil when he used his free will to disobey God and sin.

 

[meltzerboy]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

This is a belief found in Judaism based on the notion that G-d’s very thought is an act of creation. The belief not only attempts to respond to (but not solve) the problem of evil but also reinforces the idea that G-d created everything, including evil, as the Hebrew Bible indicates.

 

[Wesrock]

I agree with Vonsalza. God is not simply a passive watcher, creating and then stepping back. He holds all things in existence actively. He did not simply create Satan and then stand back, He actively sustains Satan’s very being knowing all that Satan would and will do. He created and creates and will create Satan knowing what that means.

Now, in that Satan has being, that is a good. Satan’s choice was Satan’s to make, not dictated by God. But God did not have to create or keep creating Satan to begin with. It is His will to create that angel. The world exists now as God intended it as part of His overarching plan. God’s will is being served in creating beings of different grades of goodness who sometimes do evil.

 

[fhansen]

Respectfully, that is a contradiction. If sin was outside God’s will, how could He knowingly create imminently sinful man?

Sin is opposed to God’s will by its nature, but the freedom to sin, or not to, by His created beings is within His will to permit.

You seem to imply that God couldn’t create man without the eventuality of sin. That is a limitation upon God that I find no basis for and I’d appreciate if you shared why you think it’s not only possible, but plausible.

I said no such thing. God, in His omniscience, couldn’t help but know that Adam & Eve would sin before he created them, even as sin is not at all strictly inevitable. Do you think He was surprised?

 

[Ben_Sinner]

This is a belief found in Judaism based on the notion that G-d’s very thought is an act of creation.

This was how I was trying to phrase the question, but was having trouble.

How do we refute the assertion that just God THINKING the of the concept of evil created evil. (He can’t think of evil if it doesn’t exist, or else he wouldn’t think it).

 

[Usagi]

This was how I was trying to phrase the question, but was having trouble.

How do we refute the assertion that just God THINKING the of the concept of evil created evil. (He can’t think of evil if it doesn’t exist, or else he wouldn’t think it).

Evil is not a “thing” that can be created and just sit there independently. It requires a created being with a rational soul to enact evil. God knew it was possible (and indeed that it would happen) that His creatures would prefer lesser goods to true Good and thus commit evil, but His knowing that did not somehow make evil exist.