The act of God not wanting evil is what created evil?

[Usagi]

I agree with Vonsalza. God is not simply a passive watcher, creating and then stepping back. He holds all things in existence actively. He did not simply create Satan and then stand back, He actively sustains Satan’s very being knowing all that Satan would and will do. He created and creates and will create Satan knowing what that means.

Now, in that Satan has being, that is a good. Satan’s choice was Satan’s to make, not dictated by God. ButGod’s will is being served in creating beings of different grades of goodness who sometimes do evil.

I agree, with a caveat. God can be described as having both a perfect will and a permissive will. God permissively wills the current, evil-including state of creation in that He obviously allows it to exist and uses elements of it for His purposes. However, as far as we know God would be entirely satisfied had neither Satan nor Adam nor any other creature ever sinned, and indeed we know that His plan is ultimately to “cure” and eliminate evil. God’s perfect will is a world without any evil at all. Even the angel who became the devil was made to know, love, and serve God forever in His presence, despite God’s foreknowledge that the angel would choose otherwise.

 

[fhansen]

This paragraph from the CCC highlights God’s relationship to evil/sin:

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:
For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

 

[Vonsalza]

Thus I think we can reasonably conclude that “the act of God not wanting evil” is not responsible for the existence of evil; as a direct answer to the OP.

First, the desire of God as it pertains to “evil” is obviously not very knowable. He’s God. He doesn’t do anything (including “think”) like we do.

Second, we agree that God created all things (including Lucifer) with perfect knowledge of “what they’d do”.

Whether you make the logical jump to “therefore God created all things to do what they ultimately do”, which includes your conception of evil (likely not the same as God’s), is a decision I leave to you. It’s a mystery.

I make that logical jump and have zero problem doing so, but I confess that I’m an ex-Calvinist. I’m very comfortable with the simultaneous duality of God’s unflinching sovereignty AND man’s free moral agency just like I’m comfortable with a train running on both it’s right and left rails simultaneously…

However, if you’re looking for that elusive “rock-solid, indubitable answer” for questions metaphysical, good luck. Let me know when you find one

 

[rinnie]

Evil is not a “thing” that can be created and just sit there independently. It requires a created being with a rational soul to enact evil. God knew it was possible (and indeed that it would happen) that His creatures would prefer lesser goods to true Good and thus commit evil, but His knowing that did not somehow make evil exist.

I believe this is the best answer. He created us in everything that was good. And if we wanted to be good we would want pure goodness which is only him, and would not want to disobey him.

He gave us free will with goodness in us. It is our free will that is used to separate ourselves from goodness and him to evil and sin.

God created creation for all good, creation created evil by sin.

 

[hasantas]

This is a belief found in Judaism based on the notion that G-d’s very thought is an act of creation. The belief not only attempts to respond to (but not solve) the problem of evil but also reinforces the idea that G-d created everything, including evil, as the Hebrew Bible indicates.

Yes. God is creator of everything. There is no other creative cause.

The simply explaining is that: Creating evil is not evil but attaining evil is evil. Because there are many other good and useful results of creating. For example because of Satan some people may go Hell(ofcourse by evil choices with free will). But many people by fight against satans deserve Heavens.

 

[hasantas]

It depends on what we mean by create and exist. “Evil” is not a substance in its own right. It isn’t an existent thing in itself. Evil is a deprivation, a lack.

God did create beings of various grades of goodness (keeping in mind that outside of God, everything created must have goodness in a finite way). That there would be with grades, and that deprivations in goodness within created beings, and that beings would have free will to affect others and themselves in this way, means God did plan such a world in which such deprivations could happen.

Saint Thomas gives his thoughts on the matter in Summa contra Gentiles, Book II, Chapter 45. I recommend reading the whole section (it’s a few paragraphs, really). To quote just part, because I find it helpful (even if some won’t be satisfied):

"[4] Then, too, a thing approaches to God’s likeness the more perfectly as it resembles Him in more things. Now, goodness is in God, and the outpouring of goodness into other things. Hence, the creature approaches more perfectly to God’s likeness if it is not only good, but can also act for the good of other things, than if it were good only in itself; that which both shines and casts light is more like the sun than that which only shines. But no creature could act for the benefit of another creature unless Plurality and inequality existed in created things. For the agent is distinct from the patient and superior to it. In order that there might be in created things a perfect representation of God, the existence of diverse grades among them was therefore necessary.

…

[9] To sum up: The diversity and inequality in created things are not the result of chance, nor of a diversity of matter, nor of the intervention of certain causes or merits, but of the intention of God Himself, who wills to give the creature such perfection as it is possible for it to have."

Good. Shortly: Human have action potantial both good and evil. Satans and test(include disasters … ) on the world trigger and launch that potantials ofcourse through free will.

For instance every human may be subjected to disasters. Some pray for patience and help from God but some rebel against God. The evil is rebeling and the good is being patient and want help from God. Who be patient get good deeds but revolt against God is evil. God intent for human to get good deeds but human attain evil by free will.

 

[hasantas]

I’ll jump in

I’m a man that prefers deductive reasoning over inductive reasoning while admitting that the former still relies on the debated truth value of the premises and is, in that way, still “tainted” by inductivity

I deduce that only God is infinitely good and all things apart from Him are, thus, finitely good at best. Humanity is an great example of this “finite goodness” in that it is corruptible as we see with Eve and then, in turn, Adam.

Further, I deduce that the machinism of their fall was the completion of their free moral agency by the snake. Prior to that beast’s influence, Adam and Eve only knew sublime goodness - there was no sin/fallen world with which to juxtapose their state. Thus the fall occurred when they chose to eat the apple, not by necessarily “biting in”. Rebellion had been committed when the desire for the divine knowledge was manifested, even if the snake were to tail-slap the apple from Eve’s hand as she drew it close. And as the completion of free moral agency in Eve was done by the snake, we must blame the snake.

Ergo, the real question is "Why did God create Lucifer with the capacity to create the genesis of all rebellion (with his own rebellion and subsequent fall).

Your quote of “Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world” might not be a fully true premise. We know all things ultimately serve the will of God.

In conclusion, you must believe in a God that created sin by a matter of degrees (Lucifer started it and God created Lucifer) to fulfill His divine will OR you must believe in a God who rules a universe He created where sin was a cosmic accident, outside of God’s will.

I choose the former.

Agree.

Why did God create Satan?

Perhaps if God did not create Satan so non human would go Heavens. Would that not be evil?

 

[hasantas]

God’s knowledge of creation is subjected to individual decisions therefore it is not up to Him to create a creation without evil. It is beyond His power to create a creation without evil unless He creates machines.

God can create anything without any machines and means.

 

[hasantas]

God did not create evil. That is a heresy. God created all things good. It was the evil angels that decided to go against God. Yes, they had free will. But free will means to choose between two goods. God never gave permission to the angels and then to man to do evil. Still God had to test all to see that they deserved Heaven. Thus Lucifer now Satan chose not to do good. And so did man. Hell was not invented for man, but if his choice is to do evil, so be it. Jesus himself was very sorry when He saw how hard hearted the PHarisees were in ignoring God’s commandments. Thus it was the evil angels and then man who invented evil.

God did/do create everything include evils. You to purify God from creating evil but you suppose another creators beside God. That is not true. Neither angels nor satans and nor human and nor anything else can create any thing!

Creating is good by final conclusion and it is useful by many ways. Creating troubles for human is to allow human to improve in good deeds. Every one has free will to do good or evil.

 

[STT]

God can create anything without any machines and means.

What do you mean? It seems to me that you didn’t understand what I said.

 

[fred_conty]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

When I go to the grocery store, there are so many choices to make as I walk down each isle. Selecting a breakfast cerial becomes a big chore because there are so many different kinds and mfgrs. But as I proceed thru the store I make many choices and many rejections. Because this is what I am, a choice maker. Without that I am really not a human being. Because choice is a part of what I must do every day of my life and I cannot avoid making choices all the time. It is a natural thing to me and I can’t imagine myself without it, for then I would become something else.

Some of the choices I have to make are necessarily going to be moral … about right and wrong … good and evil. I can’t get around making moral choices for they are a part of my life as well, and therefore I’m forced into making them. Such as whether I will study for my exam or not. Whether I will take that 20 dollar bill laying on someone else’s desk or not. Or to go to porn sites or not. These are things right in front of me day in and out, and I have no choice but to say yes or no.

So sin comes in when I, as a human being, make the wrong moral choice. And if I am free to make choices of good and evil, which I know I can, than I am the one who is responsible for making sin for I am the one making the wrong choice.

So who is the one who is in control of saying yes or no? Me. And that is where the buck stops.

 

[rinnie]

Agree.

Why did God create Satan?

Perhaps if God did not create Satan so non human would go Heavens. Would that not be evil?

God created Satan the same reason he created us, to love and serve him. It was his through his own free will he chose to quit following God and wanted to be a god. A false god the angel of death (sin) is what he became.

 

[hasantas]

What do you mean? It seems to me that you didn’t understand what I said.

Right. Can you state with simple words?

 

[hasantas]

God created Satan the same reason he created us, to love and serve him. It was his through his own free will he chose to quit following God and wanted to be a god. A false god the angel of death (sin) is what he became.

Going on wrong way was fault of Satan. Satan had a good position initially. That is true. But what I mean God has eternal wisdom. So God knew7know satan would rebel and try to deceive humanbeings.

 

[rinnie]

Going on wrong way was fault of Satan. Satan had a good position initially. That is true. But what I mean God has eternal wisdom. So God knew7know satan would rebel and try to deceive humanbeings.

But knowing what someone will or will not do in no way makes one responsible for ones actions.

And yes God knew Satan would try to deceive others, the word of God tells us that. But again it does not mean he will succeed. Its our free will to follow him or God. God is still no more responsible for our choices then satan is.

In the garden of eden God asked Eve why she ate the apple, she said the devil made me do it (see thats where we got that saying) but it did not fly for eve then, anymore then it does for us now.

Answer me this, how can someone have free will but can only use that free will to do good? Then if you can only choose good, not bad, that how is that free will.

So you get yourself into a trap here. Free will is exactly what it means free to choose for oneself.

 

[STT]

Right. Can you state with simple words?

I am so sorry but I have to repeat myself.

 

[hasantas]

But knowing what someone will or will not do in no way makes one responsible for ones actions.

And yes God knew Satan would try to deceive others, the word of God tells us that. But again it does not mean he will succeed. Its our free will to follow him or God. God is still no more responsible for our choices then satan is.

In the garden of eden God asked Eve why she ate the apple, she said the devil made me do it (see thats where we got that saying) but it did not fly for eve then, anymore then it does for us now.

Answer me this, how can someone have free will but can only use that free will to do good? Then if you can only choose good, not bad, that how is that free will.

So you get yourself into a trap here. Free will is exactly what it means free to choose for oneself.

I did not say God is responsible. I said God created action of evil. Satan have free will and human have free will. If satan or human decide to do something with free will God create that and it may be evil or good. Human and Satan here are to be responsible because they decide to if which action will be created.

 

[rinnie]

I did not say God is responsible. I said God created action of evil. Satan have free will and human have free will. If satan or human decide to do something with free will God create that and it may be evil or good. Human and Satan here are to be responsible because they decide to if which action will be created.

So then you can blame the manufacturer of a gun when a person kills someone right? Because they also created action of evil right?

And you can blame ford for making cars because someone could hit someone.

And blame the internet for ruining marriages.

 

[hasantas]

So then you can blame the manufacturer of a gun when a person kills someone right? Because they also created action of evil right?

And you can blame ford for making cars because someone could hit someone.

And blame the internet for ruining marriages.

I do not know exactly what is your intention!

God is the unique creator and there is no other. You should say for other subjects to be cause of being created. I mean other subjects except God have no power to create but they can be cause for something to be created by God.

There is a statement in Islam : The deeds/actions are regarded to intentions. That mean the being important is intention of human. If someone make a gun for defending that is not evil. If smeone kill other with that gun as wrongful that is evil. Defending country by guns is not evil.

Delicate issue: God create action of triggering and death. But the responsibility is belong to human who decide to decide trigger/kill other. God had given free will. God say if you choice any action either good or evil but I(God) create.

Cars are very useful. If someone drive that wrongly but responsibility is belong to driver.

For instance God create fire. Fire is very useful we cook and heat etc. But if someone evil conduct with fire and burn house so the misconducter is responsible.

If someone use something wrongly he/she is responsible.

 

[rinnie]

Since God made a conscious act to NOT want evil in the world, his thoughts alone created the concept of evil when he gave man free will?

For the concept of evil to even exist, God had to think of it when he thought “I love m creation and will decide to let it love me by it’s own accord. Hopefully it doesn’t choose evil”…thus, creating it?

The argument is…if God wouldn’t have even brought up the concept of evil by not wanting it…the concept of evil wouldn’t even exist…thus God created evil.

How do we refute this?

Simple, if I have a child and create that child in Love and only teach that child goodness, then that child chooses to do the opposite of what it was taught, I am not to blame. If so open up the cells in jail parents are deemed guilty also. Long story short, don’t blame God for evil he did not teach.