the actual body of Christ.

[SacredHeartFan]

Bread and wine is sacrificed on the Altar. It goes up to Heaven and is exchanged for the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in His eternal sacrifice on the Cross.

His Sacrifice on the Cross, which is eternal, is made present at the moment of time that we call the Mass, yes.

Well actually the holy spirit comes down upon it and changes it. You were close though!

 

[someotherguy]

I haven’t changed anything I’ve said. What part of Catholci beliefe confuses you? Look, you keep asking, “Do Catholics believe the bread and wine ARE Christ’s body and blood?” The answer is “No” because the bread and wine cease to exist at the moment of consecration. They are replaced by Christ’s body and blood.

I don’t see why this is confusing you.

First you say they are, then you say they aren’t, then you say they are, then you say they’re neither, then you say they’re not even on Earth…

 

[Gamera]

So then, what do the people eat?

Christ’s body and blood.

 

[someotherguy]

Christ’s body and blood.

And why do they eat Christ’s body and blood?

 

[Johndigger]

In all my years attending mass, I don’t recall ever getting into a time machine. In fact, I’m pretty sure each mass was a new and seperate event from the last one.

In a discussion, I’d be very grateful if you didn’t misquote me and then go on to knock down a straw man.

You quoted this:

Not quite. If you got into a time-machine and went to watch and pray at Our Lord being crucified and you offered up prayers at the foot of the cross.

Would that be the same thing as you re-sacrificing him?

And then I go onto say which knocks down your point about us being the ones to step into the time machine.

Well, this is exactly what happens at Mass, except it’s Christ that is transported to us. It’s not a re-sacrifice. It’s the same sacrifice made present in our times.

And why do they eat Christ’s body and blood?

Because Our Lord tells us to.
John 6:53:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him

John 6:56:

Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you

In Jesus,

JD

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Bread and wine is sacrificed on the Altar. It goes up to Heaven and is exchanged for the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in His eternal sacrifice on the Cross.

His Sacrifice on the Cross, which is eternal, is made present at the moment of time that we call the Mass, yes.

And why do they eat Christ’s body and blood?

He commanded us to in John 6:

41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

NIV

 

[Gamera]

Hebrews 10:14.

“For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified,” Hebrews 10:14.

Wait, I thought you said everyone who was “born again” was perfected? Where does this verse say “born again?” What translation are you using?

 

[SacredHeartFan]

John 6:53

 

[Gamera]

And why do they eat Christ’s body and blood?

1. Because Christ told us to.
2. Because we love Christ and want to be as intimate with Him as possible.
3. Because accepting Jesus into the core of our very being is the summit of Christian worship.
4. Because it strengthens us in holiness.

 

[jmcrae]

The sacrifice has already been made.

But not yet consumed by all who need to consume it.

He said that the debt of sin had been paid by His sacrifice.

According to your belief system, every time someone accepts Jesus into their heart for the first time, another debt of sin gets paid by Christ’s death on the Cross, right? (And if the person elects not to accept Jesus as his saviour, he remains in his sins - Jesus doesn’t cover his sins if the person doesn’t accept Him into his heart, right?)

So, although it all got paid at Calvary, there is still a sense in which Christ is continuing even now to pay the debt of sin by His death on the Cross, which means that the effect of Christ’s death on the Cross is outside of time, and on-going.

What we believe in the Catholic Church is that the on-going effect of Christ’s death on the Cross is made present at Mass in an unbloody manner, that everyone present at the Mass can partake in, in much the same way that Evangelicals believe that they can partake in it by accepting Jesus into their hearts.

 

[Pier]

Why does the body of Christ need to keep being re-sacrificed when the Bible says that He was already sacrificed, once and for all?

In the Bible, we learn that Jesus said, “This is my body.”

and

“This is my blood.”

As well as leaving the instructions, “Do this in memory of me.”

That’s why.

 

[someotherguy]

According to your belief system, every time someone accepts Jesus into their heart for the first time, another debt of sin gets paid by Christ’s death on the Cross, right?

I don’t know what “accepts Jesus into their heart” means.

So, although it all got paid at Calvary, there is still a sense in which Christ is continuing even now to pay the debt of sin by His death on the Cross, which means that the effect of Christ’s death on the Cross is outside of time, and on-going.

No, Jesus said that the debt is paid and the atonement is finished.

What we believe in the Catholic Church is that the on-going effect of Christ’s death on the Cross is made present at Mass in an unbloody manner, that everyone present at the Mass can partake in, in much the same way that Evangelicals believe that they can partake in it by accepting Jesus into their hearts.

Again, I don’t know what “accepting Jesus into their hearts” means.

 

[someotherguy]

In the Bible, we learn that Jesus said, “This is my body.”

and

“This is my blood.”

As well as leaving the instructions, “Do this in memory of me.”

That’s why.

Oh, so it’s just a memorial thing?

 

[someotherguy]

1. Because Christ told us to.
2. Because we love Christ and want to be as intimate with Him as possible.
3. Because accepting Jesus into the core of our very being is the summit of Christian worship.
4. Because it strengthens us in holiness.

So, what happens to Jesus’ body and blood when your body is through digesting Him?

 

[Pier]

If it’s “one single sacrifice”, then why are you doing it every week?

Actually, the Holy Mass is celebrated every day - (Give us this day, our Daily Bread)…

From what I understand, every hour of every day, somewhere in the world, the Mass is being said, and the Body of Christ is offered in the Eucharist (which means “Thanksgiving”).

 

[someotherguy]

He commanded us to in John 6:

41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

NIV

You realize this isn’t referring to the Lord’s Supper, right?

 

[someotherguy]

Actually, the Holy Mass is celebrated every day - (Give us this day, our Daily Bread)…

Oh, so it’s a daily thing?

 

[Gamera]

No, Jesus said that the debt is paid and the atonement is finished.

Let’s not paraphrase. Jesus said “It is finished,” John 19:30. You seem to draw different conclusions than I do about what Jesus meant by “it.”

Jesus’ suffering and death was finished, never to occur again. His place as our priest and sacrifice was forever established. His love for us wasn’t “finished.” His priesthood wasn’t “finished.” His mediation on our behalf wasn’t “finished.” They are eternal!

 

[Johndigger]

So, what happens to Jesus’ body and blood when your body is through digesting Him?

When the outward appearances of bread and wine are gone. It is not the Body and Blood of Christ anymore.

So, absolutely nothing is the answer to your question.

JD

 

[Gamera]

So, what happens to Jesus’ body and blood when your body is through digesting Him?

Christ’s body and blood cease to be present when the accidents (outward appearances) of bread and wine cease to be present.