The Amish way of life is the most Christian

[Publisher]

There are various Amish groups ranging from ultra conservative to more “progressive” Amish groups…each group determines their own disipline to live by, it usually follows the disipline of the “parent” group…but not always.

There are some Mennonite groups that are almost “Amish”. One issue facing some of the Amish is that almost all Amish are related in some way. The gene pool is not being supplimented. Some groups in a certain locale are made up of 3 to 4 families.

Some of the more “progressive” Amish groups do accept converts…but the commitment to become Amish is a rare find.

I mentioned a couple of Mennonite friends of mine, their grandparents are Amish, and the relationship is cordial and familial. They visit often. The parents of my friends met while the dad was working as a carpenter before his baptism…they fell in love and when the time to make the decision to be baptized he chose to leave the community, marry this Mennonite girl and be baptized Mennonite. The Mennonite girl…well…now a woman with grown children has Brethren in Christ relatives so there is some relationships between the “plain folk” of the Peace Churches.

My friends brother left his Amish roots as well and went North to join the Hutterian Brotherhood, where they live communal lives, have a strict disipline but do not shun modern convieniences, yet do dress plain.

All these groups stem from the “Radical Reformation” that predates Luther by a few years…the Anabaptists…were persecuted for decades, many were drowned as the method of execution since they wanted to be “rebaptized” the existing church and government obliged them and “baptized” them to death.

When Friends fled England to the Colonies due to persecution, many found refuge in Rhode Island and finally Pennsylvania with William Penn, who had been convinced under the ministry of George Fox.

Now Friends, Mennonites and Brethren make up the “Historic Peace Churches”, and work together to resolve international disputes through peaceful means. Friends no longer disown those who join the military, as do some of the more conservative groups of Anabaptist groups.

 

[Teeliumtrozzle]

Thanks Lack611. Read your link. It reads identical to what we in UK call the Plymouth Brethren.

They have very strong patriachal family structure where ‘father is head of the table’ and mother is so far down the list because she is female, that she does not feature in the family heirarchy, nor does any woman.

They take every teaching of the bible literally. If it says ‘an eye for an eye’ then ‘an eye must be extracted’ - no room for allegories here

A sacristan friend of mine was given a little book by a Plymouth brethren colleague with whom he worked. The colleague said ‘don’t read it now, save it until you get home’. This he did. On opening it, it contained all manner of grossely offensive material to Catholics including grossely offensive material about the Virgin Mary [and her lack of virginity etc etc].

My friend is extremely broad minded [he has a colourful past and has seen a lot of life], but even he was grossely offended by this book. Much of it was speculation but it alluded to the Mother of God as being a ‘woman’, not the consecrated Virgin that she is and certainly not the Mother of God, which it describes as a blasphemous term. ‘Only God is perfect, Mary is a woman and all women are inferior because they are and because they tempt and lead good men astray’. All women have inherited the weakness of Eve who is 100% to blame for the fall of humanity. Adam her unfortunate and weak victim was innocent of his crimes against God. It was [and is] 100% the fault and evil of woman.

When he next saw his colleague, she informed she did not agree with the contents but was obliged to pass it on to every Catholic she meets. Men can chose but women cannot, they have to be obedient servants of men and their role is to keep home and follow every command of men including ‘giving out the little books’.

Oh…I didn’t know they were horrible to women.That sounds ridiculous.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If you have the desire to live in a Catholic Community, who follow simplicity, prayer and charity, John Michael Talbot’s community might be for you. They have various vocations, including married couples.

littleportion.org/

Jim

 

[Publisher]

I thouroughly enjoy the music of John Michael Talbot, the first album I purchased was “Come to the Quiet”…it’s still my favorite, “Cave of the Heart” is probably next…as well as "Brother to Brother’ with Michael Card.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I thouroughly enjoy the music of John Michael Talbot, the first album I purchased was “Come to the Quiet”…it’s still my favorite, “Cave of the Heart” is probably next…as well as "Brother to Brother’ with Michael Card.

My wife and myself have all of JMTs albums. We’ve been to three of his concerts, the last was Monk Rock, which with his brother Terry.

John Michael Talbot has his last CD out and is on his last tour. He will be taking time off from recording and touring, for an undetermined amount of time.

Jim

 

[Sixtus]

Oh…I didn’t know they were horrible to women.That sounds ridiculous.

They appear to tragically see women as subordinate to men. In that context, it appears that women are treated as second-class citizens or rather it may be more accurate to say ‘women are oppressed by men who are their natural superiors!’

Certainly the woman our Sacristan worked with, appeared to be depressed. He also made reference to how her husband spoke to her when he called to meet her from work. Not a hint of compassion as you would expect between spouses.

I would like to meet one to ask of the relative position among the Apostles of the Lord and His Holy Mother? Was she in their view 'inferior to the rest of the Apostles seeing they were all men?

They follow the bible and take every teaching literally, even those which are allegorical. I dread to think therefore, what they would make of the Lords metaphor of ‘cutting off a hand if it causes you to sin!’

 

[kidderdoc]

Not without the Eucharist it isn’t.

AMEN Porthos :clapping:

From my viewpoint…and as I look out my window I can see the buggies go by my rural road…the Amish are just like anyone else…don’t kid yourself…they have more sin going on that you would imagine!! :bigyikes: It is funny to see the “simple life” roll past you as the driver steers his horse and holds his cell phone at the same time!! :yup: How can you spell hipp-o-crit?

I have been in their homes and they have all the amenities, just run on a gas generator…you would not know the difference.

The general feeling around here is that they cheat the “English” and many do not trust them…but my nighbors have been good to me and I sure am glad to know them in case the nuclear bomb ever hits!! :tiphat:

 

[kidderdoc]

All these groups stem from the “Radical Reformation” that predates Luther by a few years…the Anabaptists…were persecuted for decades, many were drowned as the method of execution since they wanted to be “rebaptized” the existing church and government obliged them and “baptized” them to death.

I beg to differ but the Amish come from the Mennonites and the Mennonites were started by Menno Simons’ spinoff (he was a poorly catechized priest, by his own admission) and that was sometime after Luther began his church…circa 1530’s. My Mennonite neighbor and I was just discussing this yesterday; he was raised Amish.

for your edification in Menno’s own words… :coffeeread:
e-menno.org/ren.htm

 

[Light_Seeker]

I have been in their homes and they have all the amenities, just run on a gas generator…you would not know the difference.

The general feeling around here is that they cheat the “English” and many do not trust them…

Wife grew up in ‘Amish’ country in North Indiana, I also see this every time I visit. Their use of technology is puzzling, seems they pick and choose when to use it. As an example, every Amish carpenter I’ve ever seen is using electric tools,compressors, nail guns, etc. Their farms have are totally modern. The Amish women buy the latest hi-end kitchen gadgets - my wife use to sell it to them. And yes, it is common to see cell phones in their buggies! Any Friday or Saturday night you can find young Amish men hanging around the local truck stop in their buggies, oogling over the latest Playboy magazine. They rely on the local community to sell their goods at sometimes outrageous prices, but do very little if anything to support that same community, being cloistered when they want to it seems.

Most Christian? I think not. Cloistered and advantageous, yes.

 

[kidderdoc]

Wife grew up in ‘Amish’ country in North Indiana, I also see this every time I visit. Their use of technology is puzzling, seems they pick and choose when to use it. As an example, every Amish carpenter I’ve ever seen is using electric tools,compressors, nail guns, etc. Their farms have are totally modern. The Amish women buy the latest hi-end kitchen gadgets - my wife use to sell it to them. And yes, it is common to see cell phones in their buggies! Any Friday or Saturday night you can find young Amish men hanging around the local truck stop in their buggies, oogling over the latest Playboy magazine. They rely on the local community to sell their goods at sometimes outrageous prices, but do very little if anything to support that same community, being cloistered when they want to it seems.

Most Christian? I think not. Cloistered and advantageous, yes.

Same here in southern Indiana …but I will give 'em one thing…ain’t a chubby one in sight; they aren’t allergic to hard work!! :yup:

 

[Light_Seeker]

Same here in southern Indiana …but I will give 'em one thing…ain’t a chubby one in sight; they aren’t allergic to hard work!! :yup:

ABSOLUTELY!

I know local employers hire any Amish that applies for a job. Their work ethic puts everyone else to shame.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

From my understanding The Amish do not reject technology necessarily. The purpose for living the simple lifestyles as they do, is to maintain a community environment.
If technology can be used that does not separate them from their neighbors, then it is allowed.

Amish farms are generally about 80 acres. A man alone can not harvest his crops or maintain the farm as he should. He requires help from his neighbor and visa verse. So, this creates community.

In our world, technology has helped to isolate ourselves from each other. I remember growing up in the fifties, where my mother would send me over to the neighbors house, for a cup of sugar, or they would come to our house for an egg or some other need. This created a sense of community. We knew about our neighbors who were sick, and my mother would send over some soup, or look after their kids for afternoon. We new each other, more than just by name. We looked out after each other

Now, if I need a cup of sugar and I don’t have the cash on hand, I can run down to the super market and put it on my ATM card.
I don’t need my neighbor to help me paint my house, because I hire some one to do it. He doesn’t need me because his house has vinyl siding. Just a little while ago, it was on the news that they found the body of an old women in her home. She had been dead for almost a year. She had no family and she died, without anyone knowing about. The neighbors only knew her by name. The gas company came to turn off her gas. When the meter reader couldn’t get in, they had the police come and break down the door and they found her decayed body.

The Amish desire to keep this sort of thing from happening to them. So, they reject technology, when it will take them away from being involved with their neighbor. If the technology doesn’t infringe on community, it is allowed.

I think its unfair to call them hypocrites.

Jim

 

[Light_Seeker]

If technology can be used that does not separate them from their neighbors, then it is allowed.

Thanks for that insightful post Jim.

I’m still puzzled though. How does using a horse & buggy instead of a pickup truck separate them from their neighbors? Am farmers are tilling their fields with tractors pulling plows, not a community. Their dairy farms have the latest milking and pasteurization equipment where one man,with a son or 2, can easily maintain a large herd. They don’t have electricity from the grid, but each home will have a generator and windmills. Wired phone service isn’t allowed, but no problems using satellites, repeaters, and other cell phone services.

And I too miss those days when locks on doors were unheard of, & neighbors were always lending a hand.

 

[Publisher]

I beg to differ but the Amish come from the Mennonites and the Mennonites were started by Menno Simons’ spinoff (he was a poorly catechized priest, by his own admission) and that was sometime after Luther began his church…circa 1530’s. My Mennonite neighbor and I was just discussing this yesterday; he was raised Amish.

for your edification in Menno’s own words… :coffeeread:
e-menno.org/ren.htm

You are right, the Anabaptists were contemporaries of Luther…I guess I was thinking more of Hus and Wycliff…I stand corrected on my dates.

 

[Publisher]

Wife grew up in ‘Amish’ country in North Indiana, I also see this every time I visit. Their use of technology is puzzling, seems they pick and choose when to use it. As an example, every Amish carpenter I’ve ever seen is using electric tools,compressors, nail guns, etc. Their farms have are totally modern. The Amish women buy the latest hi-end kitchen gadgets - my wife use to sell it to them. And yes, it is common to see cell phones in their buggies! Any Friday or Saturday night you can find young Amish men hanging around the local truck stop in their buggies, oogling over the latest Playboy magazine. They rely on the local community to sell their goods at sometimes outrageous prices, but do very little if anything to support that same community, being cloistered when they want to it seems.

Most Christian? I think not. Cloistered and advantageous, yes.

The Amish I knew through my Mennonite friends were able to use “modern” technology for their farm work…they could have a tractor and gas generator for farm work, but no electricity in the house…they could use phones…and had a phone booth on the dirt road off their property, but no phone in the house…they could ride in cars…but not own them…they could fly in planes and travel in trains.

It depends on how “plain” each group is and what “disipline” they hold to…Old Order Amish, Beachy Amish etc. It is puzzling at times but the rule of their bishop and the community they live within guides their disipline.

 

[kidderdoc]

From my understanding The Amish do not reject technology necessarily. The purpose for living the simple lifestyles as they do, is to maintain a community environment.
If technology can be used that does not separate them from their neighbors, then it is allowed.

Amish farms are generally about 80 acres. A man alone can not harvest his crops or maintain the farm as he should. He requires help from his neighbor and visa verse. So, this creates community.

In our world, technology has helped to isolate ourselves from each other. I remember growing up in the fifties, where my mother would send me over to the neighbors house, for a cup of sugar, or they would come to our house for an egg or some other need. This created a sense of community. We knew about our neighbors who were sick, and my mother would send over some soup, or look after their kids for afternoon. We new each other, more than just by name. We looked out after each other

Now, if I need a cup of sugar and I don’t have the cash on hand, I can run down to the super market and put it on my ATM card.
I don’t need my neighbor to help me paint my house, because I hire some one to do it. He doesn’t need me because his house has vinyl siding. Just a little while ago, it was on the news that they found the body of an old women in her home. She had been dead for almost a year. She had no family and she died, without anyone knowing about. The neighbors only knew her by name. The gas company came to turn off her gas. When the meter reader couldn’t get in, they had the police come and break down the door and they found her decayed body.

The Amish desire to keep this sort of thing from happening to them. So, they reject technology, when it will take them away from being involved with their neighbor. If the technology doesn’t infringe on community, it is allowed.

I think its unfair to call them hypocrites.

Jim

That is what they are! They claim to have cornered the market on the purest Christian life by keeping all things simple and plain by shunning technological ownership, (as opposed to use) but they keep all these things in their barns and out of the house. They have created an elaborate “traditions of men” system and do not abide by it when it suits their needs or morph the rules to their liking. In this area, there is a large group of amish involved in the meth “industry”…and that’s the plain and simple truth! :yup: Since the thread is claiming the Amish way of life is the most Christian, I would beg to differ…especially since there is not one way they adhere to.

 

[Publisher]

That is what they are! They claim to have cornered the market on the purest Christian life by keeping all things simple and plain by shunning technological ownership, (as opposed to use) but they keep all these things in their barns and out of the house. They have created an elaborate “traditions of men” system and do not abide by it when it suits their needs or morph the rules to their liking. In this area, there is a large group of amish involved in the meth “industry”…and that’s the plain and simple truth! :yup: Since the thread is claiming the Amish way of life is the most Christian, I would beg to differ…especially since there is not one way they adhere to.

As far as the Amish being involved in the meth industry, that is a not quite true. Amish youth are allowed to go through “Rumspringa”(SP). They go out into the world to make the decision as to whether they wish to be baptized and become part of the community. During this time many Amish raised teenagers do become involved in drug use and use alchohol. They do go WILD at times, including selling drugs…but it is not the Amish community that is involoved…it is the Amish raised youth prior to their baptisms and during “Rumspringa”.

A documentary called the “Devil’s Playground” is well worth the viewing as I never understood it prior to seeing the video. I also took a class at the university called “Amish Las Vegas” to get a better understanding of the Amish…very enlightening…but to say the Amish church is involved in the meth trade is simply not true.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That is what they are! They claim to have cornered the market on the purest Christian life by keeping all things simple and plain by shunning technological ownership, (as opposed to use) but they keep all these things in their barns and out of the house. They have created an elaborate “traditions of men” system and do not abide by it when it suits their needs or morph the rules to their liking. In this area, there is a large group of amish involved in the meth “industry”…and that’s the plain and simple truth! :yup: Since the thread is claiming the Amish way of life is the most Christian, I would beg to differ…especially since there is not one way they adhere to.

Well I’m not an expert on the Amish, and I have never visited Amish country. However, I understand that there are varying degrees of the Amish. Some, are staunch orthodox, while others have modernised according to necessity. In fact PBS had a program where some Amish in Pennsylvania, have opened up their farms as bed and breakfast inns. Others have turned them into gift shops, selling Amish quilts and stuff. You can’t operate these sorts of business without technology in this day and age. They’re capitalizing as a necessity to survive. Many have sold off their farms and those who are left, are surrounded by housing developments.

As far as their way of life being most Christian, I don’t believe it is.

Living among the world while holding on to faith, requires more spiritual strength than isolating yourself from it.

Jim

 

[Sixtus]

(Originally by mgrfin)—
How could St. Augustine be a Calvinist. He preceded John Calvin by 800 years.

Are you trying to say that Calvin was an Augustinian?

 

[angelusm]

They are a protestant sect, they are not in unity with Peter. I don’t know anything about their doctrine, sacraments, etc. It’s hard to treat seriously people who reject cars or tv.