The Anglicans are Coming! (maybe)

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WetCatechumen said:
That is Nestorianism. There is but one hypostasis; you propose two persons. Jesus of Nazareth, a human, who was not divine, and Jesus Christ, God, who is divine.

Jesus Christ is but a single person. He is both divine and human. Because he is human, he has a sex. His sex is male.

The person Jesus Christ existed eternally. At his Incarnation, without subtracting form his divinity, he added to himself humanity. In adding humanity, he picked up physical maleness.

To say that Jesus Christ is not a male is incorrect.
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I’ll admit that my explanation was inelegant but I don’t really consider Jesus of Nazareth any different than Jesus Christ. I simply don’t believe that His male body, or male nature, in human form, have any bearing on His divine nature. But defining Christ’s nature is not something I know anything about, nor is it something I’m interested in attempting to do. As for Nestorianism, all I can say is that the only pope I’ve ever actually seen in the flesh is Mar Dinkha IV, the patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East!
 
I’d like to suggest that anybody who’s still around read this speech, which I just came across. It’s by N.T. Wright, a conservative evangelical Anglican, who argues forcefully for female ordination while speaking out against the tendency towards gnosticism in the liberal wing of the Anglican Communion. I won’t say that all of his exegesis is correct, but I think even the most fervent Catholics here have to agree that he is one of the most intelligent and thorough theologians in the world today. His views are very interesting reading for anybody, on either side of the issue, who’s interested in this debate.
 
:eek:

Wow, just, I…wow. I have never seen one person hold to different heresies
of different natures at the same time. I thought it was logically impossible
to hold mutual exclusive heresies at the same time,as did my calvinist friend
who has also read the exchange since I asked for clarification. He looked
at me and asked me “is this Melquita for real or is she pulling our leg to
get a reaction?”

GKC, I think Edwin (Contarini) saw though this post and is laughing. I find it
extremely difficult to believe Melquita truly believes or understands what she
is writing. She contradicts herself to such degree that I think she is just doing
this to have fun with whoever rises to the bait.

Fr. Mark
 
Melquita said:
I see it as Arianism in that the characteristics evident in Christ’s human nature should not be imputed to, nor should they detract from, His divine nature. Jesus of Nazareth was male; Jesus Christ is not. To say that Jesus is male, full stop, is to say that God is male. You may believe that He is, but I do not.
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When a priest acts in the person of Christ, which nature do you assume he’s acting in - Divine or Human? Do you think it’s both and or. If God wanted a woman to be ordained to the priesthood he would have elevated his mother and the other Marys.
 
MarkBrown said:
:eek:

Wow, just, I…wow. I have never seen one person hold to different heresies
of different natures at the same time. I thought it was logically impossible
to hold mutual exclusive heresies at the same time,as did my calvinist friend
who has also read the exchange since I asked for clarification. He looked
at me and asked me “is this Melquita for real or is she pulling our leg to
get a reaction?”

GKC, I think Edwin (Contarini) saw though this post and is laughing. I find it
extremely difficult to believe Melquita truly believes or understands what she
is writing. She contradicts herself to such degree that I think she is just doing
this to have fun with whoever rises to the bait.

Fr. Mark
Click to expand...
Edwin’s views on the matter center, as we know, on Christological and soteriological points. But he’s consistent.

GKC
 
Melquita said:
I’ve always thought that that was just the stupidest and most anti-intellectual argument against female ordination imaginable, given that the same people are so fond of talking about how we don’t make the rules in order to attract people to the church or to make the religion easy to follow. If God wants us to ordain women, we should do it regardless of how difficult or controversial it will be. Not to mention the fact that, from the perspective of someone who believes it is biblically imperative to ordain women, the only reason it’s controversial at all is because men’s bigoted attitudes have corrupted the correct understanding of God’s teachings since the earliest days of the Old Testament.

Note that, as I said before, I’m not presently in favor of female ordination in the Catholic Church, largely because of the existence of the Anglican Church.
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hello melquita. i suspect your college educated. so exactly what correct understandings of Gods teachings have been corrupted, since the earliest days of the Old Testament, due to our male bigotry? plz clarify. thank you. peace 🙂
 
Melquita said:
Jesus is God. God is neither male nor female, or perhaps equally male and female. Any church that automatically restricts any of the sacraments to half of the population based solely on the appearance of their genitals can be only, at best, half holy.

I use much the same argument to argue against priestly celibacy – we are all created in God’s image, yet we can only reach our fulfillment as humans in God’s image when united as one flesh in holy matrimony to a partner of the opposite sex. Anybody who aspires to lifelong celibacy is denying half of their Godly nature (in addition to their human nature).
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i aspire to lifelong celibacy. and although i agree with you, that the male and female together in intimate union completely represent the image of God. not all are called to marriage. i for one, am complete in and of myself. also you cannot take this position of defending homosexuality, if you believe this about God. the reason Male homosexuality is so abhorent in many societies, is because it makes a mockery of the image of God, that you correctly stated can only be found in a male female sexual union. Peace 🙂
 
GKC said:
Edwin’s views on the matter center, as we know, on Christological and soteriological points. But he’s consistent.

GKC
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did not mean to imply Edwin is inconsistent. Sorry if it came across that way.

Fr. Mark
 
Melquita said:
… To say that Jesus is male, full stop, is to say that God is male. You may believe that He is, but I do not.
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If Jesus has had only one nature, I suppose you would have a point. I also do not think that God is truly ‘male’.

I am assuming that the church fathers considered this point deeply when they debated on the nature/natures of Christ. I don’t recall any conciliar pronouncements declaring God to actually have a sexual orientation. The essence of God is transcendent and sexless.
 
Ahimsa said:
Live long and prosper.
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thank you. its a good life. just ran into another soldier who caught his wife cheating on him. :banghead: tends to be a problem in my line of work. at least that one thing i dont have to worry about!😃 peace 🙂
 
MarkBrown said:
:eek:

Wow, just, I…wow. I have never seen one person hold to different heresies
of different natures at the same time. I thought it was logically impossible
to hold mutual exclusive heresies at the same time,as did my calvinist friend
who has also read the exchange since I asked for clarification. He looked
at me and asked me “is this Melquita for real or is she pulling our leg to
get a reaction?”

GKC, I think Edwin (Contarini) saw though this post and is laughing. I find it
extremely difficult to believe Melquita truly believes or understands what she
is writing. She contradicts herself to such degree that I think she is just doing
this to have fun with whoever rises to the bait.

Fr. Mark
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Does anyone know if this man is a priest? I’ve tried contacting him but he’s off line.
 
Father Mark is an ACNA Anglican priest in the midst of going through the ordinariate to become a married Roman Catholic priest.
Rv_Cain_Spencer said:
Does anyone know if this man is a priest? I’ve tried contacting him but he’s off line.
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