The Anti-Catholic ABCs - "Anything But Catholic"

[Atemi]

Do you have any examples of “Anything But Catholic” thinking?

What is funny is all the “Anything But Protestant” thinking so many Catholics are oblivious of in their own lives.

For example, we just had a devout Catholic on another board insist that she would rather someone never come to Christ than come to Christ and be saved as a Protestant.

She is no radical. I have found her sentiment is shared by many RC brethren.

Beware the careless patting of backs when the reality of the matter tells a grander tale.

…

 

[po18guy]

What is funny is all the “Anything But Protestant” thinking so many Catholics are oblivious of in their own lives.

For example, we just had a devout Catholic on another board insist that she would rather someone never come to Christ than come to Christ and be saved as a Protestant.

She is no radical. I have found her sentiment is shared by many RC brethren.

Beware the careless patting of backs when the reality of the matter tells a grander tale.

…

You have just identified the Catholic Church as containing sinners. Well, we believe that Christ is with us in the Eucharist. To turn away from Him, or to try to be saved without Him is foolish. You might just be saved in your current church. God has blessed you if you are.

 

[Teflon93]

Protestant discernment sites like sliceoflaodicea.com and [alittle leaven.com](http://www.alittle leaven.com) (both well-written and interesting, by the way) see clearly what frequently happens when every pastor „does church“ as he sees fit. It isn‘t pretty. So what do they recommend to those who believe in the separation of church and circus (or church and casino, or church and soft-porn talk show)? „Anything but Catholic!“ Instead, found a house church and „do church“ as you and your friends see fit, without a pastor. Go figure.

Wow, that’s an example I hadn’t the foggiest idea was going on!

Solve the problems of heresy and schism by making everybody Pope? That’s a new one.

 

[Teflon93]

What is funny is all the “Anything But Protestant” thinking so many Catholics are oblivious of in their own lives.

For example, we just had a devout Catholic on another board insist that she would rather someone never come to Christ than come to Christ and be saved as a Protestant.

She is no radical. I have found her sentiment is shared by many RC brethren.

Beware the careless patting of backs when the reality of the matter tells a grander tale.

…

And beware conflating anecdote with data.

I know Seventh Day Adventists who don’t believe Catholics are Christians, period. Do all believe that? Is that official teaching of the community?

I know a fundamentalist evangelical who believes every Catholic is hellbound, period. Do all believe that? Is that official teaching of fundamentalism?

Nope, just a couple of data points of people who think heaven is their country club.

Now how about engaging on the thread topic?

 

[Hlafdige]

Wow, that’s an example I hadn’t the foggiest idea was going on!

Solve the problems of heresy and schism by making everybody Pope? That’s a new one.

No it isn’t. It’s the very nature of heresy and schism. 30,000 Protestant denominations can’t be wrong!?

 

[Teflon93]

No it isn’t. It’s the very nature of heresy and schism. 30,000 Protestant denominations can’t be wrong!?

Okay, you got me there.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Here’s a quote from De Maistre (quoted by famous Catholic theologian Hans Urs Von Balthasar)

“Did we ever find that Protestants bother to write books against Greek Orthodox, Nestorian, Syrian, etc. churches, even though they hold dogmas that Protestants abhor? They avoid this. Rather, they defend these churches, they flatter them, they are ready to agree with them, because they see any opponent of the Holy See [the Roman Church] as an ally.”

Seems to ring fairly true, but not amongst well-informed, honest Protestants. A good friend and teacher of mine is a Lutheran who has pictures of Benedict and John Paul II all over her office and readily defends Catholic doctrine to ‘Catholic’ theologians in the Boston College theology department. Remember that our Protestant brothers and sisters can be a lot closer to us than we think.

One thing the quote misses that there was a correspondence between the Lutherans of Tubingen and the Orthodox EP, which the EP eventually had to declare the Lutherans heretics, as the Lutherans denied a number of Orthodox tenets. Eventually the Orthodox had to convene the Synod of Jerusalem to denounce Calvinism. When I was Lutheran, I remember the Catechism talked a lot against Calvins ideas, especially on the Lord’s Supper. Maybe the Calvinists are the true church, as they get it from all sides. ABC, anything but Calvinist.

Fr. Guillquist has coined the term “Romophobia” to describe the affliction you are refering to.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The more you learn about the Catholic Church, the less you will debate it. In fact, once you know the fullness of truth, you will likely join it. Crazy? Read on. Please remember that fundamentalism, as a Christian practice, has existed since about 1890. If only they knew how much more to Christ there is. The church produced the bible, the bible did not produce the church. Christ founded a church in Matthew 16, not a bible. The bible is indispensable to the Christian, but it is far from complete as the rule of faith. It even says so (John 21:25).

Fundamentalists have a lot of tradition in their church as well, but many don’t know it. The bible is a product of Tradition, since the Tradition preceded the bible, and complements it, rather than contradicts it. Paul’s letters, in particular, document that Tradition was well established and that Christians must hold tightly to it. See 2 Thessalonians 2:15. Additionally, the bible was assembled by a Catholic council under the authority of the Pope. Its contents were determined by, decided upon, approved by the Pope and presented to the world. Luther, and any truth seekers after him, gave credit to the Catholic church for the bible. That is not disputed.

I was just at a presentation this evening by Mark P. Shea, a former Fundamentalist who searched for the source of the scriptures, who sought to prove that scripture attested to itself and needed nothing else. He learned that scripture only documented, backed up, and complemented Sacred Tradition. He is a writer whose work may be found here: catholicexchange.com/node/65930

Christ’s peace be always with you.

The first list of the canon that we have today was promulgated by a Pope-of Alexandria: Pope St. Athanasius in his paschal message of 367, calling the NT canonized along with the Septuagint (also done at Alexandria).

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Shhhhhhhh. Contraception, confession (even though ELCAs encourage it), divorce. Did I mention contraception and divorce? I know it sounds cynical and it is not prudent to bring this up on a thread like this but scratch the surface, and BOOM! CCD. Throw in masturbation. The life issues are frequently the back breakers.

So Latin converts to Lutherans are masturbators?

 

[Teflon93]

One thing the quote misses that there was a correspondence between the Lutherans of Tubingen and the Orthodox EP, which the EP eventually had to declare the Lutherans heretics, as the Lutherans denied a number of Orthodox tenets. Eventually the Orthodox had to convene the Synod of Jerusalem to denounce Calvinism. When I was Lutheran, I remember the Catechism talked a lot against Calvins ideas, especially on the Lord’s Supper. Maybe the Calvinists are the true church, as they get it from all sides. ABC, anything but Calvinist.

Fr. Guillquist has coined the term “Romophobia” to describe the affliction you are refering to.

So the Orthodox spend how much time attacking Calvinism?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

So the Orthodox spend how much time attacking Calvinism?

Only as much time as necessary, like when they come to steal sheep (which is why the Synod of Jerusalem was called).

Once, when they first started coming after the fall of communism, there was a tent revival in Russia, at the end of which the preacher invited those who had accepted Christ to come forward. After a silence, an old lady’s voice in the back of the crowd said “those of us who were Christians before you came are Christians still.”

 

[revelations]

I’ve experienced this sentiment from some of my family; “why catholic?” “cant you wait…” and then finally “can’t you find anything but a catholic church?”.

I nailed it down to the fact that people don’t like being told how wrong they are. Everyone deep down knows the Church has an authority to it, which is why so many try to change it. So long as the Church holds steady and continues to teach the truth of morals, people will not like it.

It’s easier to be a good protestant than a good Catholic, as my mother said. To her it’s just another Church with more rules…Sometime when things got rough at her baptist church when she was younger, they just switched parishes to another lovey-dovey one.

Also, with most protestants that cringe when I tell them i’m becoming a “big C”, they always ask how on earth i’ll manage to have the copious amounts of sex i supposedly need in marriage without having a bunch of kids… It always comes back to sex.

-revelations

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I’ve experienced this sentiment from some of my family; “why catholic?” “cant you wait…” and then finally “can’t you find anything but a catholic church?”.

I nailed it down to the fact that people don’t like being told how wrong they are. Everyone deep down knows the Church has an authority to it, which is why so many try to change it. So long as the Church holds steady and continues to teach the truth of morals, people will not like it.

It’s easier to be a good protestant than a good Catholic, as my mother said. To her it’s just another Church with more rules…Sometime when things got rough at her baptist church when she was younger, they just switched parishes to another lovey-dovey one.

Also, with most protestants that cringe when I tell them i’m becoming a “big C”, they always ask how on earth i’ll manage to have the copious amounts of sex i supposedly need in marriage without having a bunch of kids… It always comes back to sex.

-revelations

And isn’t interesting, coming from those who neither consider marriage a sacrament, nor celebacy a vocation?

 

[Teflon93]

Only as much time as necessary, like when they come to steal sheep (which is why the Synod of Jerusalem was called).

Once, when they first started coming after the fall of communism, there was a tent revival in Russia, at the end of which the preacher invited those who had accepted Christ to come forward. After a silence, an old lady’s voice in the back of the crowd said “those of us who were Christians before you came are Christians still.”

LOL—that must have been something to see!

I think the argument for Catholicism being under attack is that we are the primary target for many non-Catholics. This is a function of history and geography (Protestants and Orthodox separated by 500 years or so and on separate ends of the ole Roman Empire) to significant degree.

It is certainly heartening to see a bit of rough-and-tumble between Orthodox and Protestant, however. It is also funny to see Protestants who are unaware of Orthodox theology try to adopt an “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” approach in discussion without realizing that the Orthodox view of Christianity is quite distinct from the Protestant. I’ve taken to congratulating them on their conversion to the Orthodox Church and commending them on at last receiving a full complement of the sacraments Christ crafted for us.

They go right on along the ABC path, of course.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

LOL—that must have been something to see!

I think the argument for Catholicism being under attack is that we are the primary target for many non-Catholics. This is a function of history and geography (Protestants and Orthodox separated by 500 years or so and on separate ends of the ole Roman Empire) to significant degree.

It is certainly heartening to see a bit of rough-and-tumble between Orthodox and Protestant, however. It is also funny to see Protestants who are unaware of Orthodox theology try to adopt an “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” approach in discussion without realizing that the Orthodox view of Christianity is quite distinct from the Protestant. I’ve taken to congratulating them on their conversion to the Orthodox Church and commending them on at last receiving a full complement of the sacraments Christ crafted for us.

They go right on along the ABC path, of course.

Yes, I often say that if Chick Publications knew who we were, they’d hate us too.

 

[Teflon93]

Yes, I often say that if Chick Publications knew who we were, they’d hate us too.

I think the Chickites just really hate people who wear big hats.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Isa and Teflon:

This always drives me crazy, as well. I was on a fundamentalist families forum not too long ago, and there was a lady there who was a former Orthodox (I don’t know which church), and mentioned that the church she was baptized in was like 1800 years old, or something. So I started a poll asking if any of the ladies (it’s a parenting website, so most of the posters are women) had ever considered Orthodoxy, since fundamentalists seem to strive for the “purest” form of “New Testament” Christianity, and you can historically trace some Orthodox churches back to the earliest centuries, and there’s not that pesky Pope to deal with . Very few responded, but the ones that did admitted that they either didn’t know anything about Orthodoxy, or that they found it “too Catholic”. One woman, a very anti-Catholic ex-Catholic, stated that the Pope wasn’t the only thing she had a problem with, so therefore wouldn’t become Orthodox, but then admitted that she wished her father would become Orthodox, rather than staying if the Catholic Church. When I asked why-if the Pope wasn’t the only problem she had, she of course wouldn’t answer (and no one else responded to thread after that). It just boggles my mind, the “A B Cs” are the only explanation I can think of to explain that attitude .

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[revelations]

When I asked why-if the Pope wasn’t the only problem she had, she of course wouldn’t answer (and no one else responded to thread after that). It just boggles my mind, the “A B Cs” are the only explanation I can think of to explain that attitude

It’s because the Pope is an authority figure, even though we know that is not truly the case. All the misinformed see him as the “President and CEO of Christianity”. I would guess, based on my encounters, that all the ABC’s prefer the Me-Myself-and I as the sole figure of moral authority.

 

[Teflon93]

Isa and Teflon:

This always drives me crazy, as well. I was on a fundamentalist families forum not too long ago, and there was a lady there who was a former Orthodox (I don’t know which church), and mentioned that the church she was baptized in was like 1800 years old, or something. So I started a poll asking if any of the ladies (it’s a parenting website, so most of the posters are women) had ever considered Orthodoxy, since fundamentalists seem to strive for the “purest” form of “New Testament” Christianity, and you can historically trace some Orthodox churches back to the earliest centuries, and there’s not that pesky Pope to deal with . Very few responded, but the ones that did admitted that they either didn’t know anything about Orthodoxy, or that they found it “too Catholic”. One woman, a very anti-Catholic ex-Catholic, stated that the Pope wasn’t the only thing she had a problem with, so therefore wouldn’t become Orthodox, but then admitted that she wished her father would become Orthodox, rather than staying if the Catholic Church. When I asked why-if the Pope wasn’t the only problem she had, she of course wouldn’t answer (and no one else responded to thread after that). It just boggles my mind, the “A B Cs” are the only explanation I can think of to explain that attitude .

In Christ,

Ellen

It’s an excellent point. The fundamentalists who evince respect for Orthodox Christianity seem to do so only insofar as she opposes Catholicism.

Moreover, if they really did agree with the Orthodox view, one would expect them at minimum to reject the Nicene Creed with the filioque clause which has been so controversial between Orthodox and Catholic. It is a curious position that the Catholic Church had this right but that the Orthodox Church was right on everything else.

It would be a vast improvement if all Protestants became Orthodox tomorrow, I’d warrant.

 

[po18guy]

One woman, a very anti-Catholic ex-Catholic, stated that the Pope wasn’t the only thing she had a problem with, so therefore wouldn’t become Orthodox, but then admitted that she wished her father would become Orthodox, rather than staying if the Catholic Church. When I asked why-if the Pope wasn’t the only problem she had, she of course wouldn’t answer (and no one else responded to thread after that). It just boggles my mind, the “A B Cs” are the only explanation I can think of to explain that attitude . In Christ, Ellen

SIN. She left as she was carrying her sins with her. She may have had an abortion, used contraception, or maybe was divorced and re-married. If she would answer, I’ll bet that she did not partake of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. When this is the case, she must either begin to hate herself, or the Catholic Church. For many, it is an easy choice. There is a thread dealing with this: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=197007&highlight=separation+anxiety

Christ’s peace.