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2ndGen
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Were those that created The Apostles Creed Catholic Christians who proclaimed The See of Peter as The True Church?
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2ndGen
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Hesychios
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The Apostles Creed originated as baptismal formulae used in the west somewhere, possibly Gaul.
But you already knew that, didn’t you?
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paulCT
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According to Church tradition, it is believed that the Apostles, on the day of Pentecost and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, composed the Creed with each Apostle contributing one of the twelve articles.
This is also told in the book The Mystical City of God.
This is also told in the book The Mystical City of God.
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2ndGen
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Actually, it was first documented in Milan a full century before Gaul.
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2ndGen
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I’ll buy that, but since non-Catholic Christians don’t believe in Catholic traditions, I was hoping to see someone offer up a concrete explaination as to when it first appeared.
I’m trying to see if someone has different opinions or beliefs from traditional Catholicism’s.
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bpbasilphx
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According to Church tradition, it is believed that the Apostles, on the day of Pentecost and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, composed the Creed with each Apostle contributing one of the twelve articles.
That’s a pious legend without an ounce of evidence for it, as the Apostles’ Creed is totally unknown in Eastern Churches, even those of apostolic foundation.
The reason that it was called the Apostles’ Creed is that it is a summary (symbol) of Apostolic faith.
There is only ONE Creed with the authority of an Ecumenical council: the Nicene.
That’s a pious legend without an ounce of evidence for it, as the Apostles’ Creed is totally unknown in Eastern Churches, even those of apostolic foundation.
The reason that it was called the Apostles’ Creed is that it is a summary (symbol) of Apostolic faith.
There is only ONE Creed with the authority of an Ecumenical council: the Nicene.
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2ndGen
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Subrosa
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Pope Benedict XVI, as Cardinal Ratzinger, wrote a book entitled, “An Introduction to Christianity” in which he outlines the Apostles Creed and states that it was, in fact, a developement specifically in Rome and that it stemmed from the baptismal formula during worship.
Which book would you say is more authoritative?
Subrosa
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2ndGen
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Wikipedia states that it was known as early as the 1st century as “The Symbol of The Apostles”.
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Hesychios
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Not off topic, and quite correct.
The Apostles Creed is nice, but it is not known in the East where the majority of Christians lived for centuries, it cannot actually be Apostolic.
It is a nice local symbol of Faith, and like all such, seems to have been composed for the baptism.
The Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed is the official Creed of the church, and it was composed on an Antiochian model.
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Hesychios
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If you are learning from inferior sources, you get what you have paid for.
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2ndGen
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Which one takes precedence?
The Nicene Creed (325 AD)…
…or The Apostles Creed (circa 100 AD)?
Which is the “original” Creed?
And has the Nicene Creed “added” to the original Creed?
Is The Nicene Creed a fresh new creation in 325 AD or was it “based” on The Apostles Creed?
Because the two are pretty much 90% similar.
Also, if “who” the majority of Christians is is what you use to define true orthodoxy,
what does that say about 350 Million Orthodox adherents VS 1.3 Billion Catholics?
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Isa_Almisry
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Isa_Almisry
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Christ said it was a narrow gate, through which His little flock would go.Which one takes precedence?
The Nicene Creed (325 AD)…
…or The Apostles Creed (circa 100 AD)?
Which is the “original” Creed?
And has the Nicene Creed “added” to the original Creed?
Is The Nicene Creed a fresh new creation in 325 AD or was it “based” on The Apostles Creed?
Because the two are pretty much 90% similar.
Also, if “who” the majority of Christians is is what you use to define true orthodoxy,
what does that say about 350 Million Orthodox adherents VS 1.3 Billion Catholics?
The Nicene Creed was not a new creation, but as Hesychist points out, it wasn’t based on the Apostle’s Creed, which few, if any, of the Father’s at Nicea had heard of (remember, most of the bishops who attended were from the East, where most of the Christians lived, hence Hesychist’s comment). The Creed’s roots are in the Creedal confessions within the broader Antiochean tradition (which included at the time what would become the Jerusalem and Constantiople patriarchates).
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Pons
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Apostles’ Creed - Catholic Encyclopedia
Of course it’s Apostolic… if the local church of Rome was Apostolic, its original creed was Apostolic.
I wasn’t aware there was an “official” one…
Where I come from, we exclusively use the Apostles’ Creed; Catholicism came to us through colonization by Spain in the 16th century.
Why ask this, since we were still united at the First Council of Nicaea anyway, whether one looks at it through Catholic or Orthodox viewpoints? For Catholics, the answer is “of course”, but change "Apostles’ " to “Nicene”, and the answer is the same. And I may be wrong, but doesn’t “see of Peter” mean the “local church of Rome” only?
The Catholic Church uses both creeds, of course. Some Catholics die without ever knowing there are other creeds. Nobody would say this is wrong…
Of course it’s Apostolic… if the local church of Rome was Apostolic, its original creed was Apostolic.Yes, originally.
I wasn’t aware there was an “official” one…Where I come from, we exclusively use the Apostles’ Creed; Catholicism came to us through colonization by Spain in the 16th century.
Why ask this, since we were still united at the First Council of Nicaea anyway, whether one looks at it through Catholic or Orthodox viewpoints? For Catholics, the answer is “of course”, but change "Apostles’ " to “Nicene”, and the answer is the same. And I may be wrong, but doesn’t “see of Peter” mean the “local church of Rome” only?The Catholic Church uses both creeds, of course. Some Catholics die without ever knowing there are other creeds. Nobody would say this is wrong…
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Isa_Almisry
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I think Hesychist is countering the suggestion of 2nd’s of the pious legend that the Apostles wrote it, which they didn’t. We don’t have a problem with it (the Western Rite Orthodox use it) as being Apostolic in the other uses of that term.Apostles’ Creed - Catholic Encyclopedia
The Ecumenical Councils make that quite clear.
Not according to St. Gregory, who wrote to the Pope of Alexandria that Rome, Alexandria and Antioch (Peter’s first See, which your church used to celebrate on February 22) are one Petrine See.
Not per se, no.
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Hesychios
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Gen is erecting straw men because he likes to look for ways to put down other Christians and sow discord. That is apparently why he makes such sophomoric arguments.
The fact is that baptismal formulae are the usual basis of the Creeds, which came later. Rather than answer each question as asked, it is possible to just recite all of the answers to the baptismal questions as one all encompassing statement and say “This I believe”.
The Apostles Creed so called is just one of many local variations, all of which derive from Apostolic communities but cannot be shown to have been recited by any Apostles themselves. (There was no other kind, ALL Christian communities either had Apostolic origins or derived from such communities). In this case the formula is from some community in western Europe. It has no other significance.
As mentioned above, the official Creedal statement of the church is the Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed. It is sacrosanct, inviolable and must not be tampered with, having been composed by the Fathers of the early church gathered in Holy Council for the purpose of trimming away or excluding commonly expressed heretical notions of the day and setting limits beyond which the Faith is not to be expressed.
Other Creeds are nice too, so long as they are not in conflict with the Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed. The Apostles Creed of the west qualifies as one such creedal formula.
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SIA
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The Creeds were actually written to combat several heresies of the times in which they were written. The Nicene Creed was written of course during the Council of Nicea to combat the heresies of those who did not believe that Jesus is God and that he was born to a virgin woman amongst others.
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Subrosa
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Hi Hesychios, and God bless you in your preparations for Holy Pascha -
When I read this, it looks like a you are trying to seperate the church in Rome with any Apostolicity, i.e., “…it cannot actually be Apostolic.”
Am I reading this wrong? Please say that I am and correct my understanding.
And just to be clear - the Apostles did not write it. It developed from the baptismal formula that Christ left us. For that matter, they didn’t write the Nicene Creed either. According to your logic, the Nicene Creed is not Apostolic.
Subrosa
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