The Apostles & Islam

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The ONLY reason why Muslims kiss the stone is because the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself was seen kissing the stone.
Why did he do it? Doesn’t that constitute idolatry by Islamic terms? The fact remains that Muslims continue to kiss a stone.
In the case of the statues of Mary, did Jesus (pbuh) himself ever placed any statues of his mother in the temple?

If the answer is ‘NO’, then why on earth are Christians doing it?
As InJesus stated, why not? A Catholic reverences images and statues only in so far as they remind them of God, of Christ or of Our Lady and the Saints.

You’ve posted the same theme several times and it has been answered, but I will add a link to a booklet written to Protestants who accuse us of the same thing Muslims do. Maybe this will explain it.

Vickie
 
What if we Christians are right, and the Quran is in fact the word of a man and not of God?? Who are you really worshipping?

" It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path."

.80 Obeying Mohammed is obeying Allah.

**48:10. **Verily, those who give pledge to you (O Muhammad) they are giving pledge to Allâh.

According to these verses, Muhammad is elevated to the height of a god, since obeying him is the same as obeying God. Are you not ascribing partners to Allah as well??

Vickie
Hamba, you’ve not replied to any of this!

Vickie
 
Hamba, you’ve not replied to any of this!

Vickie
You need to understand that in Islam, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was appointed by God to not merely be a ‘postman’ delivering a divine Message but rather he was a vicegerent who will teach, administer and rule the people on behalf of God according to the divine laws that were revealed to him and the earlier Prophets (pbut) who were sent before him.

And so, since the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the vicegerent of God who has been sent to all nations bringing with him God’s Final Revelation to humankind, then obviously he has to be obeyed by anyone who professes to believe in the Message that he brought to the world.
 
You need to understand that in Islam, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was appointed by God to not merely be a ‘postman’ delivering a divine Message but rather he was a vicegerent who will teach, administer and rule the people on behalf of God according to the divine laws that were revealed to him and the earlier Prophets (pbut) who were sent before him.

And so, since the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the vicegerent of God who has been sent to all nations bringing with him God’s Final Revelation to humankind, then obviously he has to be obeyed by anyone who professes to believe in the Message that he brought to the world.
Jn. 14 6-7

Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him.

Vickie
 
You need to understand that in Islam, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was appointed by God to not merely be a ‘postman’ delivering a divine Message but rather he was a vicegerent who will teach, administer and rule the people on behalf of God according to the divine laws that were revealed to him and the earlier Prophets (pbut) who were sent before him.

And so, since the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the vicegerent of God who has been sent to all nations bringing with him God’s Final Revelation to humankind, then obviously he has to be obeyed by anyone who professes to believe in the Message that he brought to the world.
From the catechism:

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such a faith in a creature.

151 For the Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his “beloved Son,”, in whom the Father is “well pleased;” God tells us to listen to him.The Lord himself said to his disciples: " Believe in God, believe also in me." We can believe in Jesus Christ because he himself is God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."Because he “has seen the Fatrher,” Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.

Vickie
 
Jn. 14 6-7

Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him.

Vickie
I don’t see any discrepancy here Vick, Hamba pointed out that Muhammad (s) is a vicegerent. the statement of Jesus is also interpreted the same way.

Since Jesus was the messenger of God in his time, there is no way for the people of that era to understand the message of God unless they learn it from Jesus (a). This passage does not prove Jesus is [God / son of God] or that he is to be worshiped .
 
I don’t see any discrepancy here Vick, Hamba pointed out that Muhammad (s) is a vicegerent. the statement of Jesus is also interpreted the same way.

Since Jesus was the messenger of God in his time, there is no way for the people of that era to understand the message of God unless they learn it from Jesus (a). This passage does not prove Jesus is [God / son of God] or that he is to be worshiped .
You can interpret it in this way, that’s fine, But what matters is what the Jews whom Jesus was adressing understood. No previous prophet uttered this sentence, even though they were the prophets of their era. No prophet is THE truth. Only God is THE Truth, and Life. This passage is taken from the same gosple that says Jesus is the Word of God Is God.
 
The Black Stone - Hajar al- Aswad - is NOT mentioned in the Quran. The Black Stone is located about five feet from the ground on the East corner of the Kaaba (this corner is known as “al-rukn al-Aswad”).

While there are traditions about kissing or touching the Stone, its real significance is as marker of the point at which one starts the Tawaaf (circumambulation of the Kaaba as part of hajj or umra). Even the traditions which talk about kissing or touching the stone are VERY CLEAR that the Stone is JUST A STONE!

BUKHARI:

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 667:

Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said “NO DOUBT, I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT ANYONE NOR HARM ANYONE. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you.”

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675:

Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said: “Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, ‘BY ALLAH! I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it and said, ‘There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.’ 'Umar added, ‘(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).’”

MUSLIM:

Book 007, Number 2914:

Abdullah b. Sarjis reported: I saw the bald one, i. e. 'Umar b. Khattib (Allah be pleased with him). kissing the Stone and saying: BY ALLAH. I AM KISSING WITH FULL CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND THAT YOU CAN NEITHER DO ANY HARM NOR GOOD; and if I had not seen Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) kissing you. I would not have kissed you.

The Stone is not be worshiped or regarded as anything but a marker.
A marker which you bow to and kiss, RRIIIIGGHHHT.
 
You need to understand that in Islam, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was appointed by God to not merely be a ‘postman’ delivering a divine Message but rather he was a vicegerent who will teach, administer and rule the people on behalf of God according to the divine laws that were revealed to him and the earlier Prophets (pbut) who were sent before him.

And so, since the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the vicegerent of God who has been sent to all nations bringing with him God’s Final Revelation to humankind, then obviously he has to be obeyed by anyone who professes to believe in the Message that he brought to the world.
In Catholicism, we have the Pope as Vicar of Christ. We can list all the Popes back to Jesus. Who followed Mohammed’s vice regency until today?

A regent presumes the absence of the governor or the formation of a governing board which is run by the vicar and reports to the Governor. Our governor is not absent. Jesus is always with us. So the Church is the governing body which the Vicar or Vice Regent, the Pope governs in the Governor’s name.

In what sense is Mohammed a vice regent? If he is governing an organization, which is it and where is it today?

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
I don’t see any discrepancy here Vick, Hamba pointed out that Muhammad (s) is a vicegerent. the statement of Jesus is also interpreted the same way.

Since Jesus was the messenger of God in his time, there is no way for the people of that era to understand the message of God unless they learn it from Jesus (a). This passage does not prove Jesus is [God / son of God] or that he is to be worshiped .
You can look at it any way you like, but Jesus proclaimed himself the Truth which means that he is God! Too bad you can’t see it that way.The Jews at the time of Jesus saw it differently than you do. The reason they crucified him was precisely because he claimed to be God.

Vickie
 
You need to understand that in Islam, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was appointed by God to not merely be a ‘postman’ delivering a divine Message but rather he was a vicegerent who will teach, administer and rule the people on behalf of God according to the divine laws that were revealed to him and the earlier Prophets (pbut) who were sent before him.

And so, since the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed the vicegerent of God who has been sent to all nations bringing with him God’s Final Revelation to humankind, then obviously he has to be obeyed by anyone who professes to believe in the Message that he brought to the world.
No wonder Muslims worship, yes worship, Muhammed. Deny it if you like, but your actions say otherwise. We worship God only, they worship Allah & Muhammed and accuse us of being polythestic! :rolleyes:
 
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