The Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament

[Radical]

Do the similarities between Luke 1 and Samuel 6 ring no bell with Protestants?

No, they don’t…It seems that when Luke wanted to make a connection between Elijah and John the Baptist (in Luke 1 exactly) he just said it plainly. In contrast, however, I am supposed to believe that when he wanted to make a connection between the Ark and Mary (in that very same chapter) he resorted to dropping hints? That makes no sense and the hints aren’t even that good. How long did it take the early church fathers to figure out Luke’s code? …and today it seems that Catholic Venerators feel obliged to fudge or enhance the hints so that they appear to be better than they actually are The alleged connection isn’t believable.

 

[Moro_Rock]

I’m not trying to put words in anyone’s mouth, but why does there seem to be so much confusion about the ark and the temple?

Do the similarities between Luke 1 and Samuel 6 ring no bell with Protestants?

The Ark of the Covenant was the holiest object in the Old Testament and went before the Israelites into battle.
For Catholics Mary is the holiest person who ever lived ( not counting her son, Jesus, who is God). By virtue of the Rosary she goes before us into the spiritual battle. Saint Padre Pio and others referred to the Rosary as their weapon, and all Catholics know how effective were the many rosaries he prayed.

 

[mark_a]

The alleged connection isn’t believable.

Is it denyable?

 

[GaryTaylor]

For our Sola Scriptura enthusists who haven’t been “closely” following along there seems to be Key passage “missed” from scripture.

REVELATION 11:19

Then Gods temple in heaven opened and in the temple could be seen the Ark of the Covenant. There were flashes of lightning and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

Point being; You are not in Heaven, thus “you” are “not” the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[Radical]

Is it denyable?

Can one deny that Luke was trying to draw a connection between the Ark and Mary? Most certainly…in fact, it makes sense to do so.

 

[mark_a]

Most certainly…

And that Mary is undeniably not alluded to by Luke as the ark of the new covenant?

 

[Radical]

And that Mary is undeniably not alluded to by Luke as the ark of the new covenant?

there is absolutely no need for Luke to communicate this alleged connection by dropping hints…if he wanted to make that point, there is no reason why he couldn’t have just said it…so no, in all likelihood Luke was not trying to allude to Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant. The evidence for such an allusion is weak.

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

For our Sola Scriptura enthusists who haven’t been “closely” following along there seems to be Key passage “missed” from scripture.

REVELATION 11:19

Then Gods temple in heaven opened and in the temple could be seen the Ark of the Covenant. There were flashes of lightning and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

Point being; You are not in Heaven, thus “you” are “not” the Ark of the Covenant.

That seems to me to be the actual physical Ark from the OT. In the same way as our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, but there is a temple in Heaven. Does that mean that our bodies are not the temple for the Holy Spirit? No, because they are not meant to be the same thing. That’s the difference between a metaphor and literal object.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

No, they don’t…It seems that when Luke wanted to make a connection between Elijah and John the Baptist (in Luke 1 exactly) he just said it plainly. In contrast, however, I am supposed to believe that when he wanted to make a connection between the Ark and Mary (in that very same chapter) he resorted to dropping hints? That makes no sense and the hints aren’t even that good. How long did it take the early church fathers to figure out Luke’s code? …and today it seems that Catholic Venerators feel obliged to fudge or enhance the hints so that they appear to be better than they actually are The alleged connection isn’t believable.

Just like it makes no sense to believe that infants were not baptized?
or
Just like it makes no sense to believe that Jesus didn’t mean this is my body and this is my flesh?

… Another case of selective literacy…

 

[1voice]

All Grace flowed through Mary instantly by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.“Luke”. Therefore All Grace Never stopped following through Mary for Marys life was a perpetual fiat.

You can believe the above if you choose.

The Bible (Douay-Rheims) says:
Romans:
3:23 For all have sinned and do need the glory of God.
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

 

[1voice]

… your a sinner on earth seeking Gods Kingdom, in the process of obtaining Sanctifying Grace.

You can believe the above if you choose.
The Bible states in Romans:
8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who is against us?

8:32 He that spared not even his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how hath he not also, with him, given us all things?

8:33 Who shall accuse against the elect of God? God is he that justifieth:

8:34 Who is he that shall condemn? Christ Jesus that died: yea that is risen also again, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

8:35 Who then shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation? Or distress? Or famine? Or nakedness? Or danger? Or persecution? Or the sword?

8:36 (As it is written: For thy sake, we are put to death all the day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.)

8:37 But in all these things we overcome, because of him that hath loved us.

8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might,

8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And …

8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit 2 in Christ Jesus has set you 3 free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because 4 it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 You, however, are not in 7 the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but 8 the Spirit is your life 9 because of righteousness. 8:11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one 10 who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ 11 from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

8:12 So then, 13 brothers and sisters, 14 we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh 8:13 (for if you live according to the flesh, you will 15 die), 16 but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are 17 the sons of God. 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, 18 but you received the Spirit of adoption, 19 by whom 20 we cry, “Abba, Father.” 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness to 21 our spirit that we are God’s children. 8:17 And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) 22 – if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.

 

[Nicea325]

there is absolutely no need for Luke to communicate this alleged connection by dropping hints…if he wanted to make that point, there is no reason why he couldn’t have just said it…so no, in all likelihood Luke was not trying to allude to Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant. The evidence for such an allusion is weak.

Then you just rebuked your own belief on the symbolic Eucharist. There is no reason why Jesus couldn’t have just said it: This is a SYMBOL of my Body or this only REPRESENTS my Body. So no, in all likelihood Jesus was not trying to allude to the Eucharist as being symbolic. Once more the evidence for such a belief is even weaker. Nice try!

 

[GaryTaylor]

You can believe the above if you choose.

The Bible (Douay-Rheims) says:
Romans:
3:23 For all have sinned and do need the glory of God.
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

A Sola Scriptura sentence much debated through the years. 4 were created with no-sin. Adam, Eve, Mary and Jesus. The knot of disobedience Adam and Eve tied was untied by Mary and Jesus.

All have sinned doesn’t include Mary in 2000 years of Apostolic Church teaching. No Stain of Sin would be the teaching, Immaculate Conception, and the reverberating testimony through the centuries.

Justified by Grace also must be understood in the context of humanity. Thus the work of Sanctifying Grace/State of Grace/Living Presence etc. as mentioned above.

However, you can also believe as you wish also. Thats a truth and luxury of this world in, Free-Will. I choose to follow the teachings of Christs Apostles in succession here on earth and in this case the beloved Apostle Peter. Who at this moment, its Pope Benedict XVI who resides in that chair.

Whos teachings are you following?

Peace

 

[mark_a]

So which is it:

Most certainly…

and

absolutely no need

or

in all likelihood

and

The evidence for such an allusion is weak.

 

[GaryTaylor]

You can believe the above if you choose.
The Bible states in Romans:
8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who is against us?

8:32 He that spared not even his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how hath he not also, with him, given us all things?

8:33 Who shall accuse against the elect of God? God is he that justifieth:

8:34 Who is he that shall condemn? Christ Jesus that died: yea that is risen also again, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

8:35 Who then shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation? Or distress? Or famine? Or nakedness? Or danger? Or persecution? Or the sword?

8:36 (As it is written: For thy sake, we are put to death all the day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.)

8:37 But in all these things we overcome, because of him that hath loved us.

8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might,

8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And …

8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit 2 in Christ Jesus has set you 3 free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because 4 it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 You, however, are not in 7 the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but 8 the Spirit is your life 9 because of righteousness. 8:11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one 10 who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ 11 from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

8:12 So then, 13 brothers and sisters, 14 we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh 8:13 (for if you live according to the flesh, you will 15 die), 16 but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are 17 the sons of God. 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, 18 but you received the Spirit of adoption, 19 by whom 20 we cry, “Abba, Father.” 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness to 21 our spirit that we are God’s children. 8:17 And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) 22 – if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.

To a musician this would be a Bowl of Notes which doesn’t make music. For you see “all” the apostles followed the path of the original Apostolic Churchs in Revelations. They still do. Some of those Churchs “still” exist and have followed the Tradition Oral and Written for a very long time. A point which leads most who actually take the time to read and research to come to see throughout the centuries.

Course you can always stick with what you think the Bible is saying. I think I’ll stick with Gods Church as he established through the Apostles. Which would translate into as Close to the Truth as possible. For Christ spoke ONE TRUTH to the Apostles.

And the Bible, as to the OP states this. which is the TOPIC…

REVELATION 11:19

Then Gods temple in heaven opened and in the temple could be seen the Ark of the Covenant. There were flashes of lightning and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

So to redirect the conversation YOU are not the Ark of the Covenant, agreed?

 

[Radical]

Then you just rebuked your own belief on the symbolic Eucharist. There is no reason why Jesus couldn’t have just said it: This is a SYMBOL of my Body or this only REPRESENTS my Body. So no, in all likelihood Jesus was not trying to allude to the Eucharist as being symbolic. Once more the evidence for such a belief is even weaker.

oh dear…it looks like you haven’t thought this through very well. The last supper was a passover meal. In the passover meal the elements of the meal symbolized certain things in regard to the original passover and the exodus…no transformation in the substance of the symbols occurred. Absolutely no transubstantiation was involved. At the last supper Jesus redefined the symbols to mean something else and b/c his audience was entirely Jewish there was no need to explain that the elements were symbols (b/c that was already their understanding). On the other hand, if Jesus was introucing something that did not occur as part of the passover meal (such as a transubstantiation of the symbolic elements of the meal), then an explanation would have been expected.

Nice try!

I am not trying…I am just stating the extremely obvious

 

[Radical]

So which is it:
and

or

and

do you have anything worthwhile to ask?

 

[1voice]

A Sola Scriptura sentence much debated through the years. 4 were created with no-sin. Adam, Eve, Mary and Jesus. The knot of disobedience Adam and Eve tied was untied by Mary and Jesus.

All have sinned doesn’t include Mary in 2000 years of Apostolic Church teaching. No Stain of Sin would be the teaching, Immaculate Conception, and the reverberating testimony through the centuries.

Justified by Grace also must be understood in the context of humanity. Thus the work of Sanctifying Grace/State of Grace/Living Presence etc. as mentioned above.

However, you can also believe as you wish also. Thats a truth and luxury of this world in, Free-Will. I choose to follow the teachings of Christs Apostles in succession here on earth and in this case the beloved Apostle Peter. Who at this moment, its Pope Benedict XVI who resides in that chair.

I have a clear understanding of the Catholic position concerning Mary’s sinlessness.
My focus in my response is on the source of God’s grace.

Whos teachings are you following?

The one that wrote the Bible …

---

My focus in my response to the statement Originally Posted by GaryTaylor:
“All Grace flowed through Mary instantly by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.“Luke”. Therefore All Grace Never stopped following through Mary for Marys life was a perpetual fiat.”

… Is on his take on the discussion of grace compared with what the Bible clearly states in Romans:
3:23 For all have sinned and do need the glory of God.
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

 

[1voice]

To a musician this would be a Bowl of Notes which doesn’t make music. For you see “all” the apostles followed the path of the original Apostolic Churchs in Revelations. They still do. Some of those Churchs “still” exist and have followed the Tradition Oral and Written for a very long time. A point which leads most who actually take the time to read and research to come to see throughout the centuries.

Course you can always stick with what you think the Bible is saying. I think I’ll stick with Gods Church as he established through the Apostles. Which would translate into as Close to the Truth as possible. For Christ spoke ONE TRUTH to the Apostles.

You said:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor:
… your a sinner on earth seeking Gods Kingdom, in the process of obtaining Sanctifying Grace.

I, in response, quoted the Bible’ (I added nothing) position on the same topic. … Which is…

Originally Posted by 1voice:

You can believe the above if you choose.
The Bible states in Romans:
8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who is against us?

8:32 He that spared not even his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how hath he not also, with him, given us all things?

8:33 Who shall accuse against the elect of God? God is he that justifieth:

8:34 Who is he that shall condemn? Christ Jesus that died: yea that is risen also again, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

8:35 Who then shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation? Or distress? Or famine? Or nakedness? Or danger? Or persecution? Or the sword?

8:36 (As it is written: For thy sake, we are put to death all the day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.)

8:37 But in all these things we overcome, because of him that hath loved us.

8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might,

8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And …

8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit 2 in Christ Jesus has set you 3 free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because 4 it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 You, however, are not in 7 the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but 8 the Spirit is your life 9 because of righteousness. 8:11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one 10 who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ 11 from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

8:12 So then, 13 brothers and sisters, 14 we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh 8:13 (for if you live according to the flesh, you will 15 die), 16 but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are 17 the sons of God. 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, 18 but you received the Spirit of adoption, 19 by whom 20 we cry, “Abba, Father.” 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness to 21 our spirit that we are God’s children. 8:17 And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) 22 – if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.

---

Your response, quoted at the top of this post, indicates that there is a conflict between the Bible and your position.

Any conflict between the two is not of my making.

 

[PRmerger]

+JMJ+

She is, and so are we.

Indeed.

As the first person to say “yes” to the good news of Jesus (Luke 1:38), Mary is in a sense the prototypical Christian, and received early the blessings we will all one day be given.