The Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament

[1voice]

+JMJ+

Wait a minute…Jesus was NOT supposed to call Mary “Woman” because He would be disrespecting His mother, which is against the Fourth or Fifth (however you count it) Commandment of the Ten Commandments, which is in Scripture.

How can you reconcile your point with this, 1voice?

Refer to #476

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by 1voice
I take the same position that I take when I talk with Mormons on this forum. If you say something that is not in scripture (especially something that contradicts what the Bible clearly and simply states as fact) and you want it to be as true as the Bible… you have the burden of proof.

Well, for me the answer is demonstrated by Jesus in the Gospels. I simply follow his example. Any time Jesus was challenged in his actions he always responded to the challengers by quoting Scripture or by clarifying Scripture. Any time Jesus challenged the status quo … he quoted scripture as all the proof that he needed to defend his action.

If its a good enough strategy for Jesus its good enough for me.

It is obvious you have no scriptural proof to support such a position. All you keep doing is dodging the question posed at you.

If it is good enough for Jesus its good enough for you? Then apparently Jesus must have taught the same: Everything must be taught from the Bible or else it is false,

 

[PRmerger]

Quote:1voice
I’m simply saying…
the Bible is already proven to be true.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Of course.

But that’s like answering, when a child asks you, “How did I get here?”

Answer: God made you!

True, absolutely true.

But what did God use?

Humans.

And in the case of the Bible, what did God use?

Humans.

Catholic humans.

Catholic bishops, to be specific.

So each and every time you quote Hebrews, you are giving tacit approval to the authority of the Catholic Church (under the assistance of the Holy Spirit, of course) discerning this for you!

 

[pablope]

You are assuming that is my position. It is not.

**

I take the position that all actions/ beliefs must concur/ support / not contradict the Bible

Okay…question then…who gets to decide what supports and contradicts the Bible?

How is one to know what contradicts and supports Scripture? You, the individual, someone else? the Church?

In the same way that all laws and actions are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution and Bill of Rights … and only those things that contradict those documents are not permitted within the jurisdiction of the US.

Paul said “Everything (that is not expressly forbidden by God) is permissible”

Who interprets the US Constitution for such cases you mention?

 

[PRmerger]

You are assuming that I take the position that all actions must be specifically described in the Bible. I do not adhere to that position.

Excellent. Then you are not against Catholics praying to saints, then, and offering flowers before a statue of Mary?

If a new doctrine is presented, it must line up with the truth already revealed.

Well, 1voice, in your years in the Catholic Church it appears you were very poorly catechized. The CC does not, ever, proclaim “new doctrines.”

The Catholic faith was whole and entire before a single word of the NT was ever put to writ.*

I adhere to the position that the Bible is book from which all else must be compared.

Chapter and verse, please, for this “position”.

If you cannot provide one (and you cannot, this has already been demonstrated), then you have been following a man-made “new doctrine”. One that you heard from someone else, who heard it from someone else, who heard it from someone else…
[SIGN1]…but no one ever read it in a single page of the bible.[/SIGN]

This “I adhere to the position that the Bible is a book from which all else must be compared” is, ironically a new doctrine that does not “line up with the truth already revealed.”

*Now, it’s true that doctrine develops, but that is fodder for another thread. The entire faith was delivered, once for all, to the saints 2000 years ago.

 

[PRmerger]

As I said earlier, Jesus gave clarification. Israel had been celebrating Passover for centuries… He revealed the true significance of the long established Biblical tradition.

If you could give the chapter and verse, please, of the OT citation that Jesus (as you say) used to counter the challenge his followers had to his command to eat his flesh in John 6.

**Originally Posted by 1voice **
Well, for me the answer is demonstrated by Jesus in the Gospels. I simply follow his example. Any time Jesus was challenged in his actions he always responded to the challengers by quoting Scripture or by clarifying Scripture. Any time Jesus challenged the status quo … he quoted scripture as all the proof that he needed to defend his action.

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by 1voice
You are assuming that is my position. It is not.
I take the position that all actions/ beliefs must concur/ support / not contradict the Bible.

In the same way that all laws and actions are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution and Bill of Rights … and only those things that contradict those documents are not permitted within the jurisdiction of the US.

Paul said “Everything (that is not expressly forbidden by God) is permissible”

Seriously 1voice? Should I post your own words verbatim?

Oh I see…it is okay for you,but not for Catholics?

Everyone is constrained by the same rule.

Creating a new doctrine that expressly departs/ changes from the truth clearly written in the Bible is something that must be proven to me. Praying to or through anyone other than what is clearly instructed in the Bible is expressly forbidden and is cause for question.

 

[PRmerger]

.Praying to or through anyone other than what is clearly instructed in the Bible is expressly forbidden and is cause for question.

Indeed.

Catholic prayer to the saints* is *supported and affirmed by the Bible.

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by 1voice
Well, for me the answer is demonstrated by Jesus in the Gospels. I simply follow his example. Any time Jesus was challenged in his actions he always responded to the challengers by quoting Scripture or by clarifying Scripture. Any time Jesus challenged the status quo … he quoted scripture as all the proof that he needed to defend his action.

If you could give the chapter and verse, please, of the OT citation that Jesus (as you say) used to counter the challenge his followers had to his command to eat his flesh in John 6.

This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."
John 6:53-58

 

[stewstew03]

…Creating a new doctrine that expressly departs/ changes from the truth clearly written in the Bible is something that must be proven to me…

1voice,
Not to gang up on you (this is a Catholic forum after all), but who determines what is “clearly written in the Bible?” Or is it up to each one of us as individuals to pray/meditate with the help of the Holy Spirit…? If so, where is THAT clearly written in the Bible?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Crickets are back

 

[PRmerger]

This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."
John 6:53-58

Fair enough.

It does show that Jesus used the OT in reference to what he was saying in John 6.

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by 1voice
…Creating a new doctrine that expressly departs/ changes from the truth clearly written in the Bible is something that must be proven to me…

1voice,
Not to gang up on you (this is a Catholic forum after all), but who determines what is “clearly written in the Bible?” Or is it up to each one of us as individuals to pray/meditate with the help of the Holy Spirit…? If so, where is THAT clearly written in the Bible?

Clearly written in the Bible:

"This, then, is how you should pray: “'Our Father in heaven” …
Matt 6:9

“ask in my name”
John 13:14

“Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.”
John 16:24

“pray to the Lord”
Matt 9:38

---

Clearly not written in the Bible:

… "our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’” …Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae

“When we have recourse to Mary in prayer, we are having recourse to the Mother of Mercy, who is so well disposed towards us that, whatever the necessity that presses upon us, especially in attaining eternal life. …” Leo XIII: Encyclical, Magnae Dei Matris

 

[LittleSoldier]

Nice commentary,but nothing you said has answered my challenge to you.

Sorry,but I still waiting for the **bibical verses **supporting your biblical belief:

Everything must be said and taught in the Bible in order to be true? Burden of proof is on you to show us this biblical belief.

chirp…chirp…chirp…

 

[stewstew03]

Clearly not written in the Bible:

… "our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’” …Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae

“When we have recourse to Mary in prayer, we are having recourse to the Mother of Mercy, who is so well disposed towards us that, whatever the necessity that presses upon us, especially in attaining eternal life. …” Leo XIII: Encyclical, Magnae Dei Matris

Clearly written in the Bible:

…the Church (not 1voice) is the pillar and foundation of truth.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Tim 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by Nicea325
Nice commentary,but nothing you said has answered my challenge to you.

Sorry,but I still waiting for the bibical verses supporting your biblical belief:

Everything must be said and taught in the Bible in order to be true? Burden of proof is on you to show us this biblical belief.

chirp…chirp…chirp…

Where is it written that my responses require your acceptance?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Originally Posted by 1voice
…Creating a new doctrine that expressly departs/ changes from the truth clearly written in the Bible is something that must be proven to me…

Clearly written in the Bible:

"This, then, is how you should pray: “'Our Father in heaven” …
Matt 6:9

“ask in my name”
John 13:14

“Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.”
John 16:24

“pray to the Lord”
Matt 9:38

---

Clearly not written in the Bible:

… "our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’” …Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae

“When we have recourse to Mary in prayer, we are having recourse to the Mother of Mercy, who is so well disposed towards us that, whatever the necessity that presses upon us, especially in attaining eternal life. …” Leo XIII: Encyclical, Magnae Dei Matris

Isn’t the first half of the Hail Mary directly from the Bible?

Thus the second half acknowledges the Mother of the Lord and also her Intercession?

What about the Nicene Creed? Here and there throughout the Bible? What about the Communion of Saints? Intercession?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Originally Posted by 1voice
…Creating a new doctrine that expressly departs/ changes from the truth clearly written in the Bible is something that must be proven to me…

Clearly written in the Bible:

"This, then, is how you should pray: “'Our Father in heaven” …

So no other prayer is allowed? Is this your position? All prayers must be the Lord’s Prayer?

1voice, when you pray, do you pray only by yourself - in your own room? Or do you pray during church services? Do you pray by yourself with the door shut behind you? Do you pray out loud?

 

[1voice]

Clearly written in the Bible:

…the Church (not 1voice) is the pillar and foundation of truth.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Tim 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]

Any doctrine cannot contradict/ must line up with … truth already revealed in the Bible.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Where is it written that my responses require your acceptance?

She’s in charge of the Crickets:shrug: