The Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament

[1voice]

Arrogant? You are the one who refuses to provide the scriptural verses supporting your tradition:

Everything must be said or taught in the Bible.

But I am arrogant? I should be ignoring you.

LOL!
Ive answered the question way back somewhere … I lost track and started ignoring the repetition.

Your question is posed in the form that requires proving a negative. It is a gotcha question. Gotcha questions are a waste of time.
Proving a negative is fairly impossible… and you guys know it of course. Thats why youkeep ignoring my responses… you are having too much fun reading your own…
Based on that understanding…
My response has been to provide (positive) examples of how God looks at his own words.
I realize that you did not and probably will not accept my response here but that makes it no less valid.

Again I will provide a few examples that show how God relies on what he has written (through his prophets) to verify what he is about to do (things that are not written … YET!):… in the book of Amos where Amos disagrees with God and tries to get him to recant from his plan to chastise Israel … God simply says to Amos …“What do you see?” Amos sees a plumb line … which is God’s way of telling Amos that he is right and justified in what he is about to do (which is not yet in the Bible at that point …) simply based on the fact that Israel has refused to line up with God’s previously expressed commands (the plumb line represents God’s word). … Joshua said the same thing… “I set before you … life and death … blessing and cursing … choose life (God’s word) so that you and your children may live” !!! … Joshua was saying … If it doesnt line up with God’s word … RUN!!! … Israel chose not to follow Joshua’s admonition … and that was recorded in God’s word by later Prophets.

And…
Jesus consistently and exclusively relied on God’s previously written word and the written record of God’s dealings with Israel when faced with current (yet to be written at the time of the event) challenges and questions during his Earthly ministry. He is the fulfillment of Scripture … and he used Scripture, regularly, to verify his (current, yet unwritten at the time) authority.
One of the Gospels ,I think it is Matthew, is specifically focused on verifying all/most of the prophecies made concerning Jesus. It was extremely important, to God, that the words written in the past lined up perfectly with the events that unfolded in Jesus life.
Lining up with God’s previously revealed word when doing something new is always the pattern that God followed … and God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

The bottom line for me is … what works?
I have, to the best I know, tried to diligently follow the words/ instructions in the Bible … with amazing results and success.
i have, truly, seen many, many miracles … before my eyes. I have seen deep cries of my heart … answered. Promises of God’s word … fulfilled. God’s word is true!! I dont want anything but more of him as revealed in his written word !!

 

[LittleSoldier]

LOL!
Ive answered the question way back somewhere … I lost track and started ignoring the repetition.

Your question is posed in the form that requires proving a negative. It is a gotcha question. Gotcha questions are a waste of time.
Proving a negative is fairly impossible… and you guys know it of course. Thats why youkeep ignoring my responses… you are having too much fun reading your own…
Based on that understanding…

This is another introduction of a straw man along with some ad hominems. You seem to believe that you can define our position and tell us what we are doing. I, for one, am having no fun at all when my faith is mocked by someone who is supposed to be on my side. We are not ignoring your responses. You have NOT answered the question I have asked so many times and I don’t think you can. And my question is not formed as to have you try to prove a negative. To start a post off with laughing at others’ beliefs is rude and uncharitable. This isn’t a game to me. This is dead serious. It is dealing with the salvation of people who may otherwise end up damned for eternity. Is that funny to you? :tsktsk:

My response has been to provide (positive) examples of how God looks at his own words.
I realize that you did not and probably will not accept my response here but that makes it no less valid.

Your response has been to provide material that violates forum rules (personal revelation), to change the subject, to skirt the issue, to side-step, to dance around, to ignore questions outright, and to LOL. The topic of this thread was the Ark of the Covenant. The thread was hijacked.

Again I will provide a few examples that show how God relies on what he has written (through his prophets) to verify what he is about to do (things that are not written … YET!):… in the book of Amos where Amos disagrees with God and tries to get him to recant from his plan to chastise Israel … God simply says to Amos …“What do you see?” Amos sees a plumb line … which is God’s way of telling Amos that he is right and justified in what he is about to do (which is not yet in the Bible at that point …) simply based on the fact that Israel has refused to line up with God’s previously expressed commands (the plumb line represents God’s word). … Joshua said the same thing… “I set before you … life and death … blessing and cursing … choose life (God’s word) so that you and your children may live” !!! … Joshua was saying … If it doesnt line up with God’s word … RUN!!! … Israel chose not to follow Joshua’s admonition … and that was recorded in God’s word by later Prophets.

And…
Jesus consistently and exclusively relied on God’s previously written word and the written record of God’s dealings with Israel when faced with current (yet to be written at the time of the event) challenges and questions during his Earthly ministry. He is the fulfillment of Scripture … and he used Scripture, regularly, to verify his (current, yet unwritten at the time) authority.
One of the Gospels ,I think it is Matthew, is specifically focused on verifying all/most of the prophecies made concerning Jesus. It was extremely important, to God, that the words written in the past lined up perfectly with the events that unfolded in Jesus life.
Lining up with God’s previously revealed word when doing something new is always the pattern that God followed … and God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

So you have interpreted the Bible. How do you know your interpretation is correct and someone else’s is wrong? And which Scriptures did Jesus carry around with Him to read? What was previously written by God? What was the written record of God’s dealings with Israel? Your response here makes no sense! You make it sound like Jesus had a diary! There was no Bible when Jesus walked the earth and the apostles had no Bible to use to teach people. They taught ORALLY, as Jesus taught them.

The bottom line for me is … what works?
I have, to the best I know, tried to diligently follow the words/ instructions in the Bible … with amazing results and success.
i have, truly, seen many, many miracles … before my eyes. I have seen deep cries of my heart … answered. Promises of God’s word … fulfilled. God’s word is true!! I dont want anything but more of him as revealed in his written word !!

The many, many miracles you claim to have seen are what is called private revelation and it is against forum rules to discuss them. So - please don’t.

Nobody is saying you have to accept more than what is written in the Bible. You have already admitted, though, that you practice what is forbidden by the Bible. And there is a problem when Catholics are told that praying to the saints is wrong or, to bring the thread back on-topic, that Mary is not the Ark of the Covenant (and she is).

If you have provided an answer to the question I have asked several times I have not seen it. And I have looked. If you have answered, please provide a post number.

 

[PRmerger]

All three of these statements are false, and the source of your error is revealed in the words in bold.

How so?

When was the Bible codified? (5th century)*

When was the first infallible preaching of the Apostles? (Day of Pentecost)

That seem quite clear which came first.

*And who discerned this codes? The Catholic bishops.

So each and every time you quote Hebrews as being inspired, you are giving tacit acknowledgement of the authority of the Catholic Church.

You would not know that Hebrews is inspired any other way.

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by PRmerger
But Tradition came first, 1voice. That’s what gave you the Bible.

How so?

When was the Bible codified? (5th century)*

When was the first infallible preaching of the Apostles? (Day of Pentecost)

That seem quite clear which came first.

*And who discerned this codes? The Catholic bishops.

So each and every time you quote Hebrews as being inspired, you are giving tacit acknowledgement of the authority of the Catholic Church.

You would not know that Hebrews is inspired any other way.

According to God’s word, the Bible came first.
… it was the Holy Spirit, through God’s reveled word to his prophets, that wrote the Bible.
According to Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing
without revealing his plan
to his servants the prophets.​

 

[LittleSoldier]

Originally Posted by PRmerger
But Tradition came first, 1voice. That’s what gave you the Bible.

According to God’s word, the Bible came first.
… it was the Holy Spirit, through God’s reveled word to his prophets, that wrote the Bible.
According to Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing
without revealing his plan
to his servants the prophets.​

No, 1voice. The Scriptures that make up the Bible are not, in and of themselves, separately, the Bible. The Bible was put together by the Catholic Church. Catholics are the ones who decided what would go into this most holy book - guided by the Holy Spirit. Jesus and the Apostles did not carry Bibles around with them - Bibles didn’t exist. And what some consider Scripture was not included in the Bible. It was Catholics who decided what would be put in the Bible and what would not be - all under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus and the Apostles taught ORALLY. Most of the people they taught were illiterate, anyway, and this probably includes the Apostles. Papyrus (or whatever was used) was very expensive and whatever passed for ink was, too.

Even the stone tablets that contained the Ten Commandments had been lost. It was oral tradition, straight from the mouth of God Incarnate, that formed the teaching when the Apostles interacted with Him and with the people they taught after the Pentecost. TRADITION. For hundreds of years. And THEN came the Bible.

 

[PRmerger]

According to God’s word, the Bible came first.
… it was the Holy Spirit, through God’s reveled word to his prophets, that wrote the Bible.

Of course it was the Holy Spirit that wrote the Bible, 1voice.

Are you under the misapprehension that Catholics believe otherwise?

But saying that the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible in no way means that “the Bible came first.”

That’s like saying, “I was first in line!”
When someone asks you to provide evidence for this you respond with, “President Obama lives in the White House! and gets to be first in line wherever he goes!”

Those are non-sequiturs, 1voice.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Well it is evident we will never get to read any verses supporting 1voice position.

No, we won’t. Ever.

 

[PRmerger]

*And who discerned this codes?

Above should be corrected to: codex.

 

[PRmerger]

Again I will provide a few examples that show how God relies on what he has written (through his prophets) to verify what he is about to do (things that are not written … YET!0

Of course God relied on what he had written.

God just didn’t rely on ONLY what he had written.

He also proclaimed the Good News–new teachings–based on His Word.

And, again, His Word is revealed through 2 channels: Scripture AND Tradition.

 

[1voice]

It is obvious you have no scriptural proof to support such a position. All you keep doing is dodging the question posed at you.

If it is good enough for Jesus its good enough for you? Then apparently Jesus must have taught the same: Everything must be taught from the Bible or else it is false,

You are assuming that is my position. It is not.
I take the position that all actions/ beliefs must concur/ support / not contradict the Bible.

Jesus confirmed it.
The word of God, lined up perfectly with Jesus actions.
God/ the Holy Spirit considered it so important that he had
Matthew, (in verse 12:18-21) quote Isaiah so as to to validate, through scripture, what Jesus did for the demon possessed man described in the verses that followed this quote…

18“Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19He will not quarrel or cry out;
no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
till he leads justice to victory.
21In his name the nations will put their hope.”
Isaiah 42:1-4

and (in the next verse) … when challenged/ accused of not being aligned with God’s word … as Matthew asserts/ disproves (using scripture) above…

Jesus said this about the importance of anything that we or God does … being aligned with the Bible/ Word of God:

“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
Matt 12:25

 

[LittleSoldier]

You are assuming that is my position. It is not.
I take the position that all actions/ beliefs must concur/ support / not contradict the Bible.

Jesus confirmed it.
The word of God, lined up perfectly with Jesus actions.
God/ the Holy Spirit considered it so important that he had
Matthew, (in verse 12:18-21) quote Isaiah so as to to validate, through scripture, what Jesus did for the demon possessed man described in the verses that followed this quote…

18“Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19He will not quarrel or cry out;
no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
till he leads justice to victory.
21In his name the nations will put their hope.”
Isaiah 42:1-4

and (in the next verse) … when challenged/ accused of not being aligned with God’s word … as Matthew asserts/ disproves (using scripture) above…

Jesus said this about the importance of anything that we or God does … being aligned with the Bible/ Word of God:

“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
Matt 12:25

I don’t read those passages as meaning what you say they mean. They certainly do not support your position. Who is the servant? What is justice? Which nations? You have quarreled and cried out in laughter. If you speak in the streets you are heard. You can break a bruised reed and so can I. You can easily snuff out a smoldering wick. Who is leading justice to victory? What is that victory? What is the name in which nations have put their hope? What nations are meant?

What you have done is form your own man-made tradition - *your *tradition. You have made yourself the authority. Yet nowhere in the Bible are *you *given the authority to interpret Bible Scripture infallibly.

The Bible is difficult to understand in many places, including the passages you have quoted (please note that you have posted one passage which doesn’t even contain the words you claimed it did - I have mentioned this in a previous post and so far you have not responded). It seems strange to me that God would send His Son to die for us in such a brutal way and yet leave us with a book that is so difficult to understand without an authority that He has chosen. Not you. Not me. God. Either one must believe in an authority appointed by God or believe that the Bible means different things to different people and that’s the way it is supposed to be (what I have termed “Biblical Relativism”).

The Bible can lead us to salvation. It’s important. It’s very important. And that’s why I do not believe in Biblical Relativism. The Word of God means what He says it means.

God gave us an authority - the authority is the Catholic Church. That is the Church God founded. She is His Church and speaks His Truth. She always has and she always will. She has the authority to bind and loosen. Her first Pope, Peter, was given the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.

You can laugh your head off, mock our faith, jeer, and LOL all you want. When one does such things one shows how one feels about people who are taking the Word of God seriously and hoping that they can somehow shed light, using God’s authority, to guide others who are seeking Truth. The seriousness of this cannot be overemphasized. As Catholics we believe in ALL of the Word of God - every last letter in every last word that has come from Him. There is NO place in the Bible that states which books should be in the Bible or otherwise supports your position or the alleged position you mistakenly believe is the Catholic position. When you are asked to provide Bible passages to support your position you say you already have but then lost track and that “gotcha questions” are a waste of time. With all due respect, you have not provided those passages. And you cannot provide those passages. And “gotcha questions” are not a waste of time but are slam-dunk questions which prove that your position cannot be defended adequately.

With all charity, all I have seen (sadly) is side-stepping, dancing around the issues, changing the subject, reporting unauthorized personal revelation (which is a violation of forum rules), and uncharitable behavior such as mocking and jeering. You have introduced a straw man and have resorted to ad hominems - always off-topic, always uncharitable, and usually the sign of a last act of desperation. The Word of God deserves more respect than that. When we speak about the Word of God we should really be face down on the ground in total subjugation to God. This is HOLY and SACRED.

Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. She carried Jesus within her womb and not only that, His holy cells became part of her body just as surely as her cells and DNA became part of His. She was conceived without Original Sin and remained a pure and holy vessel throughout her entire life and remains so today as Queen of Heaven and Earth. No other human being can truthfully make that claim. Our Lady is so intertwined with her Son, physically and spiritually, that she has been blessed beyond belief. No wonder she is so loved, both by Jesus, and by those who understand, even if just a little bit, her role in our salvation. We could not have been saved without her and we now ask her to pray for us as she has promised to do.

The Catholic position on Mary’s role in not unbiblical. Her *Magnificat *is quoted in the Bible. I have more to say on this and then I will be finished with this thread.

 

[LittleSoldier]

There is a Biblical basis for the Magnificat.

The title commonly given to the Latin text and vernacular translation of the Canticle (or Song) of Mary. It is the opening word of the Vulgate text (Luke 1:46-55): “Magnificat anima mea, Dominum”, etc. (My soul doth magnify the Lord, etc.). In ancient antiphonaries it was often styled Evangelium Mariæ, the “Gospel of Mary”. In the Roman Breviary it is entitled (Vespers for Sunday) Canticum B.M.V. (Canticle of the Blessed Virgin Mary). The “Magnificat”, “Benedictus” (Canticle of Zachary — Luke 1:68-79), and “Nunc Dimittis” (Canticle of Simeon — Luke 2:29-32) are also styled “evangelical canticles”, as they are found in the Gospel (Evangelium) of St. Luke.

Form and content

Commentators divide it into three or four stanzas, of which easily accessible illustrations may be found in McEvilly, “Exposition of the Gospel of St. Luke” (triple-division: verses 46-49, 50-53, 54-55); in Maas, “Life of Jesus Christ” (also triple, but slightly different: vv. 46-50, 51-43, 54-55); and in Schaff andRiddle, “Popular Commentary on the New Testament” (division into four stanzas: vv. 46-48, 49-50, 51-52, 53-55). The Magnificat is in many places very similar in thought and phrase to the Canticle of Anna ( 1 Samuel 2:1-10), and to various psalms (xxxiii, 3-5; xxxiv, 9; cxxxvii, 6; lxx, 19; cxxv, 2-3; cx, 9; xcvii, 1; cxvii, 16; xxxii, 10; cxii, 7; xxxii, 11; xcvii, 3; cxxxi, 11).Similarities are found with Hab., iii, 18; Mal., iii, 12; Job 5:11; Isaiah 12:8 and 49:3; Genesis 17:19. Steeped thus in Scriptural thought and phraseology, summing up in its inspired ecstasy the economy of God with His Chosen People, indicating the fulfillment of the olden prophecy and prophesying anew until the end of time, the Magnificat is the crown of the Old Testament singing, the last canticle of the Old and the first of the New Testament. It was uttered (or, not improbably, chanted) by the Blessed Virgin, when she visited her cousin Elizabeth under the circumstances narrated by St. Luke in the first chapter of his Gospel. It is an ecstasy of praise for the inestimable favour bestowed by God on the Virgin, for the mercies shown to Israel, and for the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham and to the patriarchs. Only four points of exegesis will be noted here. Some commentators distinguish the meaning of “soul” (or “intellect”) and “spirit” (or “will”) in the first two verses; but, in view of Hebrew usage, probably both words mean the same thing, “the soul with all its faculties”. In v. 48, “humility” probably means the “low estate”, or “lowliness”, rather than the virtue of humility. The second half of v. 48 utters a prophecy which has been fulfilled ever since, and which adds to the overwhelming reasons for rejecting the Elizabethan authorship of the canticle. Finally the first half of v. 55 (As he spoke to our fathers) is probably parenthetical.

catholic-saints.net/saints/the-magnificat.php

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[LittleSoldier]

-----continuation of last post-----

[SIGN]Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament?[/SIGN]

“This teaching upholds the Deity of Christ; as the original ark bore the Presence of God, so Mary truly bore God Himself in her virginal womb.”

Biblical Basis

"The Holy Ghost inspired St. Luke to portray Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant in his Gospel. In Luke 1:35, the angel Gabriel tells Mary ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.’ ‘Overshadow’ here comes from the Greek word ‘episkiasei’, which denotes a bright cloud of glory. It is used in reference to the cloud at the transfiguration of Jesus (Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7. Luke 9:34). This cloud is none other than the Shekinah Glory, the visible Presence of God in the Hebrew Scriptures, which dwelt in the Holy of Holies above the ark of the covenant (Exodus 24:15-16, 40:34-38, 1 Kings 8:10).

"The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures made two centuries before Christ, uses “episkiasei” in Exodus 40:34-35, to describe the Shekhinah’s overshadowing of the Temple. Saint Luke, who was quite familiar with the Septuagint, uses the very same word for the Spirit’s overshadowing of Mary! The angel Gabriel clearly drew a parallel between God’s presence in the Sanctuary and in Mary. She is the new, living Ark chosen to bear the God-Messiah.

"St. Luke also draws a parallel between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant in the account of the Visitation (Luke 1:39-52). Compare it to 2 Samuel 6:4-16, where David tries to bring the original Ark into Jerusalem. Both the ark and Mary are on a journey. David dances before the ark; John leaps in his mother’s womb. David says ‘How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?’ (2 Sa 6:9); Elizabeth says ‘Who am I, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’ (Lk 1:43). The ark stayed in the house of Obededom for three months (2 Sa 6:11); Mary stayed in Elizabeth’s house for three months (Lk 1:56)

The two passages are clearly parallel. The Holy Spirit inspired Luke to draw this parallel, to show that Mary is the New Ark, chosen to bear God. The Ark was a sacred vessel which bore the Divine Presence, Mary is a holy woman who bears the Lord God.

Finally, just before the vision of the New Eve in Revelations 12, we read “and the temple of God saw opened in heaven, and there was seen the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail” (11:19). Now remember; the Bible was not written in chapter and verse; that was added in the twelfth century AD. When John penned these words, there was no division between chapters 11 and 12; he wrote about one right after another as a continuous thought. The appearance of the Ark here immediately precedes the appearance of the Woman, the Mother of the Christ Child; and we saw above that the Woman is Mary. This also indicates a relationship between the Ark and Our Lady.

maryimmaculate.tripod.com/marian2.html

The site also examines common objections to the idea of Mary being the Ark of the Covenant and I recommend that anyone who is interested click on the link and read the entire article.

The evidence supporting the concept of Mary as the Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament is overwhelming. Mary *is *the Ark of the Covenant. That is what this thread is about and I hope I have brought it back to the topic.

The Church does not demand that we pray to Mary. The Church does not demand that we offer Mary any special love or devotion. If one wishes to rely solely on the Bible, while at the same time ignoring the passages which provide such strong evidence for Mary as the Ark of the Covenant, that is certainly acceptable, although I don’t know why anyone would choose to turn his/her back on the Word of God. What is important is that we obtain Heaven and help others obtain Heaven. Obtaining Heaven is the most important personal goal that one can have.

But to deny Catholics their right to pray and show love and devotion to Mary is wrong. She is the Mother of God, the Mater Dei, the Theotokos. She is deserving of our love and devotion and she will pray for us if we ask it of her because she is merciful and loves us.

I will not post in this thread again, although I am now thinking that I may start a new thread on Mary as the Ark of the Covenant. The mocking and ridicule in this thread sadden me immensely. If I start a new thread I humbly request that such behavior not be demonstrated. I love Mary and have recently found a new admiration for my Dad, who also loved Mary. I wish I had understood his love and devotion for her while he was alive on earth. We did not share much. It would have helped our troubled relationship. I hope and pray that he is aware that I now understand.

I pray that everyone who has posted in this thread finds God’s peace.

And that is all I am going to say.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Jesus said this about the importance of anything that we or God does … being aligned with the Bible/ Word of God:

“Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
Matt 12:25

1Voice… the Pharisees’ charge that Jesus performs exorcisms by a pact with satan, He replies that the objection lacks common sense, overlooks the tradition of exorcistic power in Israel, and refuses to acknowledge, in the person and teaching of Chirst, the New reign of God…capable of destroying satans power!

That is “the” definition for 12:24-29.

And this too seems to be the case with you also, and the faith healing aspect which is suspect to say the least.

Now, on to Mary, this is very much tradition/scripture/history thus reality, course you can ignore it, but then to ignore the history thus truth would indicate it would automatically work against you. To what degree I have no idea.

The Annunciation, oldest known image was painted in the 2nd century in the catacomb of Priscilla in Rome. The Annunciation has been a key topic in Christian art in general and is one of the most if not the most popular image of not only Mary but of any woman in “history”.

Of course this doesn’t come from only Luke but also Matthew in 1:18 which also relates in 1:22 to; Isaiah “God with Us” “a Virgin shall give Birth” Or Luke 1:28 Hail Highly Favored One [or] Full of Grace, pending which Bible you choose.

Matthew 1:25 “He had no relations with Mary before She bore a Son, whom is named Jesus.” [Point is to place emphasis on the virginal conception] but “again”.

With God nothing is impossible as we see sterile or women conceiving of elder age, this is a re-occuring theme in OT/NT with…Sarah mother of Isaac, Samsons mother, Hannah mother of Samuel, and of course Elisabeth in the NT.

Mary however differs and is for one a Virginal Conception, not yet married but betrothed, nor can see be considered sterile, for that is a unknown by the virginal conception and through the course of Her earthy life so too remained a virgin.

What we have is Grace which preceeded the Act of the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit predicted in advance by the Annunciation which through God, becomes God in the Incarnation, thus the second person of the Trinity fully Human and Fully Divine [God With Us]. He who in the state of I AM has no-sin and chose through Mary who found Favor with God also No-Sin and a Virginal Conception.

Thus we have Gods plan of Salvation in this moment known from the past and seen in the future to become the Incarnation through I AM in that present moment.

This does validate not only the importance of the Annunciation/Incarnation but also the Immaculate Conception. The Assumption is simply “Biblically” not a new concept.

2 Kings 2:1-13 Elijah is assumed into Heaven

Hebrews 11:5 Enoch is Assumed into Heaven

John 5:28-29 All the righteous will be Assumed into Heaven.

Without the East or West Apostolic Churchs it certainly doesn’t take a rocket scientist to conclude the Blessed Virgin whom “All Generations will call Blessed” is a very special individual to the Trinity and Gods plan of Salvation, and intricate part for sure.

Intercessional Prayer is “also” Biblical.

James 5:16 Pray for one another!

Galatians 6:2 Help carry one anothers burdens!

Revelations 4:8-11 Day and Night without pause they Sang!

Revelations 5:7-8 the elder’s fell down before Lamb, holding the aromatic spices, which were the Prayers of Gods Holy people.

Revelations 8:3-4 The Prayers of ALL Gods Holy ones, and, 4-the Prayers of Gods people!

Revelation…The Ark of the Covenant is in Heaven!

I would conclude a very good case has been made as to Blessed Virgin Mary as the Ark of the Covenant. All as you say…it aligned with Bible and Tradition/History.

When you say…"I’ don’t see it, then that is your “opinion” which is contrary to Bible/Tradition/History. Not only with St Mary but many Biblical truths.

However this here Scripture/Tradition/History is a far cry from [Mr “so and so”] doing Sooth Saying and Faith Healing in his home.

Peace

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by PRmerger
But Tradition came first, 1voice. That’s what gave you the Bible.

According to God’s word, the Bible came first.
… it was the Holy Spirit, through God’s reveled word to his prophets, that wrote the Bible.
According to Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing
without revealing his plan
to his servants the prophets.​

WRONG! No where does the Bible state the Bible came first…no where! ORAL teachings came first followed by writing. If the Bible came first, tell me what Bible did Abraham use and show me one place where Abraham quotes the Bible,if the Bible came first according to God? Remember…God…not 1voice.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1voice
“for you have exalted your Word above all your name”
Psalm 138:2

1voice, do you ever plan to answer anyone’s questions? Where does the verse say: ONLY the WRITTEN word?

Tell me where “Word” refers only to the written Word of God?

 

[Nicea325]

LOL!
Ive answered the question way back somewhere … I lost track and started ignoring the repetition.

Your question is posed in the form that requires proving a negative. It is a gotcha question. Gotcha questions are a waste of time.
Proving a negative is fairly impossible… and you guys know it of course. Thats why youkeep ignoring my responses… you are having too much fun reading your own…
Based on that understanding…
My response has been to provide (positive) examples of how God looks at his own words.
I realize that you did not and probably will not accept my response here but that makes it no less valid.

Again I will provide a few examples that show how God relies on what he has written (through his prophets) to verify what he is about to do (things that are not written … YET!):… in the book of Amos where Amos disagrees with God and tries to get him to recant from his plan to chastise Israel … God simply says to Amos …“What do you see?” Amos sees a plumb line … which is God’s way of telling Amos that he is right and justified in what he is about to do (which is not yet in the Bible at that point …) simply based on the fact that Israel has refused to line up with God’s previously expressed commands (the plumb line represents God’s word). … Joshua said the same thing… “I set before you … life and death … blessing and cursing … choose life (God’s word) so that you and your children may live” !!! … Joshua was saying … If it doesnt line up with God’s word … RUN!!! … Israel chose not to follow Joshua’s admonition … and that was recorded in God’s word by later Prophets.

And…
Jesus consistently and exclusively relied on God’s previously written word and the written record of God’s dealings with Israel when faced with current (yet to be written at the time of the event) challenges and questions during his Earthly ministry. He is the fulfillment of Scripture … and he used Scripture, regularly, to verify his (current, yet unwritten at the time) authority.
One of the Gospels ,I think it is Matthew, is specifically focused on verifying all/most of the prophecies made concerning Jesus. It was extremely important, to God, that the words written in the past lined up perfectly with the events that unfolded in Jesus life.
Lining up with God’s previously revealed word when doing something new is always the pattern that God followed … and God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

The bottom line for me is … what works?
I have, to the best I know, tried to diligently follow the words/ instructions in the Bible … with amazing results and success.
i have, truly, seen many, many miracles … before my eyes. I have seen deep cries of my heart … answered. Promises of God’s word … fulfilled. God’s word is true!! I dont want anything but more of him as revealed in his written word !!

All that writing and still no verses? Now that is more comical. And yet you still cannot swallow your pride,because you have YET to show us those biblical verses clearly showing us the Bible teaches everything must be said and taught in the Bible?

 

[Nicea325]

All three of these statements are false, and the source of your error is revealed in the words in bold.

Really? Explain to us how the Bible came before Oral teachings?

 

[GaryTaylor]

I know, I seen that earlier, something. I don’t want to deter New Members, so I shall forewarn ya… this is me JOKING!

You mean the Bible from Gods Printing Press in the Garden during the period of Adam and Eve.

He gave Adam a copy whom carried it out with him, then he locked the Gate. Explains it all, now I see now how Isaiah knew what was happening in advance. He read the book.

 

[1voice]

All that writing and still no verses? Now that is more comical. And yet you still cannot swallow your pride,because you have YET to show us those biblical verses clearly showing us the Bible teaches everything must be said and taught in the Bible?

Herees reality.
I clearly/ repeatedly… answered the question. You dont want to hear it.

… or just dont get it… not sure which.

God bless …