The Art of Killing--for Kids

[tabycat]

peta [sign]people eating tasty animals[/sign]

I agree!

 

[pnewton]

The problem is you apparently lack the moral imagination to consider things from the animal’s perspective.

I would rather say that his advantage is that he has the moral grounding in the one Church that teaches the truth about the uniqueness of the human condition.

 

[pnewton]

We are all immoral if we do not think as Spencelo does. And as has been insinuated time and again, we are all clearly uninformed. If we had the information HE has, we would think just as he does.

The problem with those that come here to preach to us poor immoral Catholics are that they never start at the begining. They jump in with a view that is already askew as there is a basic philosophical difference. An error in the begining is an error indeed. If you take God out of the equation, then you also take out the incarnation and the guidance of the Holy Spirit today. Never has there been a time, thanks to Bl. John Paul, where we better understood the uniqueness of the human condition. In this light, we can take a balanced approach to how we treat nature. WIthout it, spencelo’s position makes a certain sense. But as Catholics, our understanding of ethical treatment of animals is grounded in our humanity, not in their animal nature.

An error in the begining is an error indeed. We can not calculate circumference without pi, or an understanding of it. Determining ethics apart from God is like attempting calculus when you do not have the addition table down pat.

 

[tabycat]

Two questions for those afainst hunting and killing any animals:

1. Have you ever seen a cat (or kitten) ‘play’ with a mouse before she kills it? I have (it was my ‘job’ as a kid to get rid of the dead mice ‘my’ cat gave to my Mom).
2. Did you know that Hitler was a vegataren? We know one of the things that he did (it inveled 12 million dead humans :bigyikes::bigyikes:

 

[spencelo]

In my humble opinion, this is the core issue at stake. Every other thread is a derivative of this. All issues of welfare, rights, morality, etc. Unless this is addressed, nothing else can ever be laid to rest.

No, it isn’t. I’m simply appealing to principles that you already accept.

 

[shipwrkd]

Spence, I’m really trying to get a handle on where you stand regarding animals. I asked before and I’ll ask again; if your house had a family of mice living in it…what would you do???

You keep ignoring this question. You couldn’t ignore the mice, your only logical answer is to turn into a hunter, like the rest of us, and go after them. Your just hunting a smaller animal.

 

[spencelo]

You keep ignoring this question. You couldn’t ignore the mice, your only logical answer is to turn into a hunter, like the rest of us, and go after them. Your just hunting a smaller animal.

Your question is entirely irrelevant to the hunting issue – hunters actively go out and search for kills, while people with rodent problems do not. In any case, here’s my answer: peta.org/issues/wildlife/house-mice.aspx

 

[triumphguy]

The problem is you apparently lack the moral imagination to consider things from the animal’s perspective.

Stop judging!:banghead:

Or maybe he has moral good sense.

Look, I could use my moral imagination to believe that my motorbike has feelings, and that she gets very upset if I don’t change the oil.

We can imagine any stupid thing if we want to. Just because we can imagine it doesn’t make it reality.:dts:

 

[spencelo]

Stop judging!:banghead:

Or maybe he has moral good sense.

Look, I could use my moral imagination to believe that my motorbike has feelings, and that she gets very upset if I don’t change the oil.

We can imagine any stupid thing if we want to. Just because we can imagine it doesn’t make it reality.:dts:

Yes, you’re moral imagination would be inaccurate in the case of your motorbike, but not the case of a pig.

 

[triumphguy]

Not just information, but more compassion and empathy, which I admit is hard.

We Catholics save our empathy for the poor, the homeless, the sick and the dying, and the unborn.

Animals may get sympathy, but they can never have empathy since they are not like us, and we are not like them.

 

[triumphguy]

Yes, you’re moral imagination would be inaccurate in the case of your motorbike, but not the case of a pig.

All I owe pigs is a decent life and a quick death. I do not owe it to them to imagine anything.

Except for bacon.

 

[spencelo]

Animals may get sympathy, but they can never have empathy since they are not like us, and we are not like them.

Animals are like us in many relevant ways, so the claim that “they are not like us” is no excuse. Animals, like us, do have rich emotional lives – so exercising our moral imagination regarding that is perfectly appropriate.

alternet.org/story/150424/animals_have_emotional_lives,_too

 

[spencelo]

All I owe pigs is a decent life and a quick death. I do not owe it to them to imagine anything.

Except for bacon.

Hence you act inconsistency, and in my view, immorally.

 

[april32010]

Hence you act inconsistency, and in my view, immorally.

CONDUCT RULES
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks. See the Concierge Desk sub-forum for more information.

Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.

 

[spencelo]

CONDUCT RULES
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks. See the Concierge Desk sub-forum for more information.

Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.

My statement wasn’t a personal attack at all but a mere opinion statement regarding the morality of his action.

 

[triumphguy]

Animals are like us in many relevant ways, so the claim that “they are not like us” is no excuse. Animals, like us, do have rich emotional lives – so exercising our moral imagination regarding that is perfectly appropriate.

alternet.org/story/150424/animals_have_emotional_lives,_too

So they have souls do they?

And… apparently, rich emotional lives.:whacky:

How come you believe that, but don’t believe that plants have emotions?

Just think of all the trees that died so you could live where you do.

How many decades of tree life went into that place where you live? Imagine all the birds and animals that made their homes in their boughs. The shelter those trees afforded, that is now gone, and the land denuded. The animals homeless, the birds nestless.

You don’t kill just one animal to eat it (at least its essence and energy would be absorbed into you) no, you devour whole environments.

Imagine the pain of the trees as they were felled, and stripped of branches and bark - a glimmer of their energy still remaining, sharing their last feelings as they are loaded onto the truck destined for the woodmill.:crying::crying::crying:

You utter and complete @#$%^&*

You who feel their cries of warm blooded animals,. but are too blind and insensitive to understand the suffering of plants and trees.

Your soul must be dead, devoid of all grace, desolate.:christmastree1:

 

[spencelo]

You utter and complete @#$%^&*

I apologize for getting you so emotional, to the point where you would personally attack me. Obviously my approach isn’t working with you.

 

[triumphguy]

I apologize for getting you so emotional, to the point where you would personally attack me. Obviously my approach isn’t working with you.

Oh, so you admit to being insenstive to the pain and suffering of trees then!

Or did my whole analogy and caricature of what you are doing just go over your head. (BTW do you have dreadlocks, or braids?)

And er… no … your one sided, lop sided, obfuscatory approach is not working.

It’s keeping me amused though.

And maybe it shows other readers that we don’t have to believe what someone says just because they keep banging on about it.

 

[april32010]

Oh, so you admit to being insenstive to the pain and suffering of trees then!

Or did my whole analogy and caricature of what you are doing just go over your head. (BTW do you have dreadlocks, or braids?)

And er… no … your one sided, lop sided, obfuscatory approach is not working.

It’s keeping me amused though.

And maybe it shows other readers that we don’t have to believe what someone says just because they keep banging on about it.

dreadlocks,methinks :tiphat:

 

[GEddie]

Oh, so you admit to being insenstive to the pain and suffering of trees then!

Or did my whole analogy and caricature of what you are doing just go over your head. (BTW do you have dreadlocks, or braids?)

And er… no … your one sided, lop sided, obfuscatory approach is not working.

It’s keeping me amused though.

And maybe it shows other readers that we don’t have to believe what someone says just because they keep banging on about it.

He can bang on as long as he cares to. For me, the case is closed.

We do not get our morality from soupy feelings, we get it from Christ (and His church).

And since He was no vegan, and nothing He did was wrong, we are not obligated to be vegans. Full stop.

ICXC NIKA