The Art of Killing--for Kids

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spencelo said:
That logic appears to be correct. You claim it’s okay to treat animals the way we do because they lack X, Y, and Z. If so, then it should be okay to treat humans similarly if they lack X, Y and Z.
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That logic is incorrect, as was shown by the other responses.
If you follow the teachings of Ingrid Newkirk, then facepalms are in order.
 
spencelo said:
Well, I showed you various studies - I suggest you read them seriously. And as I said, that animals experience emotions is common sense, but I understand why meat-eaters are motivated to deny this and play the skeptical card. The truth would mean profound changes.
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You did not show studies you just linked web sites that show opinions. I think that I could accuse of playing the “common sense” card (is that even a valid epistemological view?) to justify your own projection onto animals when “common sense” tells me that hunting and raising livestock for food as been around as long as human beings have been.
 
Cristiano said:
You did not show studies you just linked web sites that show opinions. I think that I could accuse of playing the “common sense” card (is that even a valid epistemological view?) to justify your own projection onto animals when “common sense” tells me that hunting and raising livestock for food as been around as long as human beings have been.
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If you read those references carefully, you would see that actual studies are referenced and linked. And common sense is perfectly valid in many cases. For instance, it’s common sense that babies can feel pain and suffer – even though they can’t “communicate” those facts to us. Behavior is a compelling indication of one’s mental and emotional life.
 
Crescentinus said:
Something tells me that spencelo is a member of PETA.
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People Eating Tasty Animals

spenceio I’ve read the comments after the blog you posted and they run in line with the comments of this thread. This topic is is similar to any post on gun control. There are those that think ALL guns should be banned and there are those who will give their’s up when it’s pried from their cold dead hand. I imagine your a member of the former group where I belong to the later. Just from the title of your post The Art of Killing–for Kids, IMHO, you started this just to stir the pot, knowing the response you’d get :twocents:
 
spencelo said:
Well, I showed you various studies - I suggest you read them seriously. And as I said, that animals experience emotions is common sense, but I understand why meat-eaters are motivated to deny this and play the skeptical card. The truth would mean profound changes.
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I remember about 30 years ago around Carson City I was a guest at a friend’s ranch and they’d been having coyote problems. After two ranch dogs were killed overnight they decided to put an end to it. it took three days of waiting (mornings and evenings) in a hillside blind but I winged one of them with a monster long range shot. By the time we tracked it down it was still alive, but holy mackerel, if looks could kill, I’d have been as dead as those two dogs, and the cattle it had killed. it was like it was waiting to make a final lunge at me. so I shot it again. we got her partner the next day.

so I don’t know what this humanizing nonsense is.

Westerby
 
Cristiano said:
Spencelo I just wondering if you are claiming that the states of the mind and the states of the brain are the same thing? I am asking because sometimes it looks like you treat emotions in animals like a behaviorist where you get the same effect for the same cause.
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spencelo said:
I…Behavior is a compelling indication of one’s mental and emotional life.
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So are you saying that they are the same and one?
 
Cristiano said:
I was wondering if you could elaborate on this.
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I mean both, but especially mammals. I was wondering if you could elaborate on why you think that the inability of animals to “communicate” their mental states implies that we can’t know that they are.
 
spencelo said:
I mean both, but especially mammals. I was wondering if you could elaborate on why you think that the inability of animals to “communicate” their mental states implies that we can’t know that they are.
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So if I understand correctly you are saying that vertebrate and invertebrate animals have mind states and separately brain states.
 
spencelo said:
I mean both, but especially mammals. I was wondering if you could elaborate on why you think that the inability of animals to “communicate” their mental states implies that we can’t know that they are.
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That is not the crux of anyone’s argument, that is just part of it. :doh2:

The issue of the morality of eating meat is complicated. It’s not just about their ability to communicate or not, it’s about what they are and what we are.

And the bottom line is men need meat to be truly healthy. It is thanks to meat that we have the brains we have. Thanks to meat that we are able to reason as we do (according to many studies). Thanks to meat that you can make the arguments you choose to make.

So if I were you I’d be grateful our ancestors decided turkey looked tasty.
 
spencelo said:
No. Behavior is strongly indicative of a mental or physical state, but the two are not identical.
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I am sorry now you are saying that mental and physical states are the same, that is the basic idea of the identity theory that results in behaviorism.
 
nickybr38 said:
And the bottom line is men need meat to be truly healthy. It is thanks to meat that we have the brains we have. Thanks to meat that we are able to reason as we do (according to many studies). Thanks to meat that you can make the arguments you choose to make.

So if I were you I’d be grateful our ancestors decided turkey looked tasty.
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The idea that we need meat to be healthy is a common myth.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.psychologytoday.com%2Fblog%2Fthe-farmacy%2F201205%2Fdo-happy-healthy-brains-need-meat&ei=Tj9aUNb4NeWA0AHgwIA4&usg=AFQjCNF3TxUHaQbfdmRQ2xkn_S4CPbP0ig

vegsource.com/news/2011/06/study-vegetarian-diets-healthier-in-every-way-than-diets-with-meat.html
 
 
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