The "Ask a Lutheran" Thread!

[joe370]

=joe370;6101137]Yup! However, I believe that all authority was given to Christ and Christ then conferred His authority on His church leaders in His stead, commissioning them to go to the ends of the earth, in His name, building up and governing His Church, and we are to obey our leaders and defer to their authority just as the the early Christians did when Paul said:

“Obey your leaders and defer to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
And I would encourage every Lutheran to do so, as well.

Amen brother.

Quote:
If we are to defer to the bible only as our one and only authority, then I guess Paul didn’t get the memo. I believe that Jesus endowed His church leaders (regardless of the century) - via the power of the holy spirit of course, with the discernment of Gods will and that they are incapable of error in expounding doctrine on faith or morals only. If I didn’t, I would have to consider the possibility that the 4th century Trinitarian dogma could actually be fallible, or that the 4th century doctrine of the hypostatic union (the two natures of Jesus, which was adopted as orthodox doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon ) - could very well be a fallible teaching as well. After all, many rejected this doctrine after it was defined by the CC. I would also have to consider the possibility that the Council of Ephesus, which decreed in 431 that Mary is Theotokos (which was met with opposition) - because her son Jesus is one person who is both God and man, divine and human, could also have been fallible in its pronouncement. If the infallibility of these early ecumenical councils are called into question, then so are the preceding doctrines defined therein. The question is: how did all these fallible CC leaders (who came together at certain times in history) - define these doctrines as infallibly accurate teachings of truth? Perhaps the holy spirit had something to do with it!

I agree with your view here. Remember, these were acts of the unified Church, which isn’t the case today. When Rome sets doctrine or dogma today, it does so without the other patriarchs.

Jon, is it safe for me to say that you believe that the CC prior to the 11th century split was in fact the church built by Jesus, on Pentecost?

Quote:
The Apostles then, did not take their office and authority upon themselves, but were appointed by a superior authority, Jesus Christ. The bible attest to the unique authoritative status of the Apostles in several ways. The Apostles possessed the gospel message precisely because it was “entrusted” to them, and not taken by them on their own initiative. The bible clearly establishes how the gospel message and the necessary authority that accompanies its preaching was passed on from God to Jesus Christ, then to the Apostles. The question I had to ask myself as a former Lutheran, was this: after the demise of the original 12 Apostles, how was this gospel and apostolic authority to be passed on?

Good question. Also, what happens when corruption and abuse place limits on those called to serve. And what Lutherans did, as a result, was return to the early practice of presbyter ordination, by divine law.

Jon, what is your answer to the question: after the demise of the original 12 Apostles, how was this gospel and apostolic authority to be passed on??

I know that they returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, but I could start a church tomorrow and claim to have returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, but would it be by divine commission? Isn’t there only one way to become a legitimate Pastor, as per the bible: by appointment from a superior, just as Timothy and Titus were appointed/commissioned (and commissioned others via apostolic succession)? I am quite certain if Timothy had stepped outside of that apostolic succession and started his own church, teaching something contrary (or not) - to the CC sphere of influence - Paul would have been a little peeved. LOL… By whose commission did Martin Luther derive his authority? Like Josiah said; no man can self appoint, not that I am impugning the works of Martin Luther - NEVER!

continued…

 

[joe370]

Corruption and abuse has definitely done a number on Jesus’ established church over a 2000 year period (man that is a long time) - no doubt about that! After all, the devil never rests, and the devil hates Jesus’ Mystical Body to which Jesus is the head and savior. If Jesus is the savior of His established church, (regardless of the chaff mixed in with the wheat) - then His church is in good hands, wouldn’t you agree? I believe that the devil is the primary cause for the corruption and abuse that has plagued Jesus’ church, no doubt in every century, (for that is the devils sole purpose) - but the devil cannot destroy Jesus’ Body, nor can the devil alter the deposit of faith; if the devil could, the devil would have. I would imagine that the devil would rather alter one of Jesus’ key doctrines (the Trinity or the true presence in the Eucharist) - than anything else. I can’t even fathom how immense the spiritual battle against Jesus’ Mystical Body must be. I just don’t think that we should give up on the one thing built by God (the church) - because of the evil men (pedophiles for example) -that have slithered their way into Jesus’ abode on earth. We don’t give up on the educational system when this happens. Jesus Himself predicted that such things would occur, but in the end, Jesus will say to them: “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

After the wheat is planted, the Devil comes in and plants weeds, as per sacred scripture. What better place than the church built by God, to plant these weeds that look like wheat but produce no grain. Outwardly, these false Christians look like the genuine article, just as the “tares” look like real wheat, but in the end the jig will be up! Jesus said:

Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’"

Of course this doesn’t help the true Church leaders who are sadly lumped in with these parasites. If you get a chance, check out the apparitions of Garabandal to four 11 year old girls (they are not approved by the CC yet) - they are truly miraculous. The children were told (among many other things) - in 1962:

*I am advising you that this is the last One. Before, the Cup was filling up; now it is flowing over. Many Cardinals, many Bishops, and many Priests are on the road to perdition, and are taking many souls with them. Less and less importance is being given to the Eucharist.
*
As a matter of fact, it was these apparitions from 1961 -65 that pushed me off the proverbial fence in the direction of the CC. I almost gave up on Christianity when my girlfriend (fiancee) - died and it was these apparitions that restored my faith in Jesus Christ. I have always been sort of a modern day doubting Thomas.

No doubt these words are the very reason why the CC has not approved these apparitions, even though the miraculous nature of these apparitions is quite obvious and has changed the lives of thousands of people. Our Lord Jesus Christ told St. Catherine of Siena that throughout the Church were numerous clergymen who were nothing less than “incarnate devils.” This description is certainly more searing than what Our Blessed Mother Mary expressed, and no one censured Jesus for saying it. In fact, St. Catherine’s Dialogues with God did much to earn her the very rare title of “Doctor” of the Church!

There are many on line sites; this is just one of them.

garabandalarchives.com/

 

[JonNC]

=joe370;6106018]
Jon, is it safe for me to say that you believe that the CC prior to the 11th century split was in fact the church built by Jesus, on Pentecost?

Not exactly. I would say the Catholic Church, if it is understood that this is not a reference to Rome, or at least to Rome exclusively. That the Bishop of Rome was part of that Church Catholic is undeniable, nor do I feel the need to deny it. By the same, I as a Lutheran am part of that Church Catholic, as a result of our roots in the western Church.

Jon, what is your answer to the question: after the demise of the original 12 Apostles, how was this gospel and apostolic authority to be passed on??

Indeed the Church. I also do not deny the importance of apostolic succession in this way, though it is a human tradition, and does not exclude prestyber ordination as valid.

I know that they returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, but I could start a church tomorrow and claim to have returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, but would it be by divine commission? Isn’t there only one way to become a legitimate Pastor, as per the bible: by appointment from a superior, just as Timothy and Titus were appointed/commissioned (and commissioned others via apostolic succession)? I am quite certain if Timothy had stepped outside of that apostolic succession and started his own church, teaching something contrary (or not) - to the CC sphere of influence - Paul would have been a little peeved. LOL… By whose commission did Martin Luther derive his authority? Like Josiah said; no man can self appoint, not that I am impugning the works of Martin Luther - NEVER!

Your continued charity on this thread is appreciated.
The Treatise on the Power and the Primacy of the Pope explains the response to the Bishops refusing to ordain the Evangelical Catholic clergy better than I can, but yes, ordination must be within the framework of the Church. My Lutheran parish cannot simply ordain someone outside the hierarchy of the Church.

Jon

 

[AmericanJosiah]

How is the CC unaccountable? If I can trust that Jesus’ church leaders, teaching in His stead, are sharing with me the very truths regarding the teachings of Jesus Christ, then they are teaching infallibly (without error). For example. If they are correct about the following then they taught infallibly. If they are incorrect then they taught/teach fallibly:

Okay. But The Catholic Church gives you one choice: Read it in your Catechism, # 87. The (very Protestant!) question you ask is moot in the case of ONE, insists The Catholic Church, and that one is… yup, itself. It is infallible (in official matters of faith and morals anyway), so, since one alone (self) is INCAPABLE of errors in these matters, your question is a silly one if ask of that one (exclusively).

.

 

[joe370]

Originally Posted by joe370

How is the CC unaccountable? If I can trust that Jesus’ church leaders, teaching in His stead, are sharing with me the very truths regarding the teachings of Jesus Christ, then they are teaching infallibly (without error). For example. If they are correct about the following then they taught infallibly. If they are incorrect then they taught/teach fallibly:

**Okay. But The Catholic Church gives you one choice: Read it in your Catechism, # 87. **

Of course the CC gives you one choice regarding any one doctrine. There can be only one truth regarding any one doctrine. In the Protestant world, depending on the church, there are many conflicting truths, and there is no way to know who is right (teaching infallibly) - or who is wrong (teaching fallibly) - if authority is restricted to each respective church, as opposed to the collective whole. No one church has any demonstrable authority outside their sphere of influence, which is very problematic, ecumenically speaking.

Read your Catechism # 87.

I am reading it again. Do you believe me? LOL…

*87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms. *

Yes, again, all Christians belonging to the CC are ready and willing to receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms, which simply means that all Catholics are ready and willing to be taught; are teachable, and are willing to yield to supervision, direction, or management. As I said before: This is very biblical and is the reason why the CC has remained one and united for almost 2000 years, in spite of the internal corruption that has left its nasty mark. The Devil hates Jesus’ Mystical Body, but the Devil will never succeed at destroying Jesus’ Mystical Body. The devil has won some battles but in the end, we all know who wins the war! The CC is not not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.

CCC 86

Quote:
The Catholic Church demands that there is ONE human authority you are to exempt and exclude from such: Itself. Alone. Exclusively.

Of course, as does every other Protestant church, if one wants to belong to one of the many Protestant churches. Every PC demands that a Christian must defer to their church authority regarding their church charter (eg, the Lutheran Confessions) - and if one doesn’t, one is excluded from the assembly. The CC embraces all Protestants as brothers and sisters and believes that salvation is possible for both catholics and protestants.

The (very Protestant!) question you ask is moot in the case of ONE, insists The Catholic Church, and that one is… yup, itself.

The CCC teaches that many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church, and that the holy spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation. Would you say the same about the CC, which by your own admission was not built by Jesus?

"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity. CCC 819

Josiah, you believe that all Christians, regardless of the church to which said Christians belong, or when it it was established, comprise the one holy catholic church, BUILT BY JESUS CHRIST, with the exception of the CC - correct?

It is infallible (in official matters of faith and morals anyway), so, since one alone (self) is INCAPABLE of errors in these matters, your question is a silly one if ask of that one (exclusively).

To whom are you referring when you say: It is infallible (in official matters of faith and morals anyway), so, since one alone (self) is INCAPABLE of errors in these matters, your question is a silly one if ask of that one (exclusively).

Who is incapable of error regarding the teachings of Jesus Christ?

 

[joe370]

=joe370;6106018]
Jon, is it safe for me to say that you believe that the CC prior to the 11th century split was in fact the church built by Jesus, on Pentecost?

Not exactly. I would say the Catholic Church, if it is understood that this is not a reference to Rome, or at least to Rome exclusively.

I understand!

That the Bishop of Rome was part of that Church Catholic is undeniable, nor do I feel the need to deny it. By the same, I as a Lutheran am part of that Church Catholic, as a result of our roots in the western Church.

So, you belong to both the LC and the CC, as a result of your (Lutherans in general) - roots in the western Church? Could you maybe flesh that idea out a bit for me?

Quote:
Jon, what is your answer to the question: after the demise of the original 12 Apostles, how was this gospel and apostolic authority to be passed on??

Indeed the Church. I also do not deny the importance of apostolic succession in this way, though it is a human tradition…

Surely apostolic succession is biblical, and I agree with you that AS does not exclude prestyber ordination as being valid?

Quote:
I know that they returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, but I could start a church tomorrow and claim to have returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, but would it be by divine commission? Isn’t there only one way to become a legitimate Pastor, as per the bible: by appointment from a superior, just as Timothy and Titus were appointed/commissioned (and commissioned others via apostolic succession)? I am quite certain if Timothy had stepped outside of that apostolic succession and started his own church, teaching something contrary (or not) - to the CC sphere of influence - Paul would have been a little peeved. LOL… By whose commission did Martin Luther derive his authority? Like Josiah said; no man can self appoint, not that I am impugning the works of Martin Luther - NEVER!

Your continued charity on this thread is appreciated.

The Treatise on the Power and the Primacy of the Pope explains the response to the Bishops refusing to ordain the Evangelical Catholic clergy better than I can, but yes, ordination must be within the framework of the Church. My Lutheran parish cannot simply ordain someone outside the hierarchy of the Church.

Well, that makes perfect sense to me! I will check out the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope tonight.

Jon, I was still hoping that you would field the following question: when the various churches were popping up everywhere for the past 500 years (and continue to do so) - claiming to have returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, to you consider these churches to be divinely commissioned by God?

 

[JonNC]

=joe370;6110703]
So, you belong to both the LC and the CC, as a result of your (Lutherans in general) - roots in the western Church? Could you maybe flesh that idea out a bit for me?

Sure. In my view, Evangelical Catholics (Lutherans) are a reformational Church, the goal of which is (should be) reconciliation. Also, the CCC says I am a member of the Church Catholic via my Baptism.

Surely apostolic succession is biblical, and I agree with you that AS does not exclude prestyber ordination as being valid?

Biblical as implied, or explicit?

Jon, I was still hoping that you would field the following question: when the various churches were popping up everywhere for the past 500 years (and continue to do so) - claiming to have returned to the early practice of presbyter ordination, to you consider these churches to be divinely commissioned by God?

Please don’t take this as a cop out, as I don’t mean it as such. I can’t speak for other denominations and their practices, nor do I wish to impune or judge them. Suffice it to say that I believe there must be at least some level of education and training, indeed even vetting, and a requirement that a pastor rightly teach. Lutheran pastors go through a rigorous training in the faith and are called upon to make a statement of faith.

Jon

 

[Matt_G]

(I actually had to buy a Catechism of the Catholic Church for my Lutheran Confessions class.)

That intrigues me. Why the apparent need for a CCC? I’m not very familiar with Lutheran Confessions.

 

[Matt_G]

Please don’t take this as a cop out, as I don’t mean it as such. I can’t speak for other denominations and their practices, nor do I wish to impute or judge them. Suffice it to say that I believe there must be at least some level of education and training, indeed even vetting, and a requirement that a pastor rightly teach. Lutheran pastors go through a rigorous training in the faith and are called upon to make a statement of faith.

Jon

Do Lutherans as with most I assume before and during seminary go through an extensive discernment process and so on?

 

[JonNC]

Please don’t take this as a cop out, as I don’t mean it as such. I can’t speak for other denominations and their practices, nor do I wish to impute or judge them. Suffice it to say that I believe there must be at least some level of education and training, indeed even vetting, and a requirement that a pastor rightly teach. Lutheran pastors go through a rigorous training in the faith and are called upon to make a statement of faith.

Jon

Do Lutherans as with most I assume before and during seminary go through an extensive discernment process and so on?

Depending upon what you mean, I would think so, though Pastor Gary would more insight on the actual practice than I do.

Jon

EDIT: Matt, I don’t know for sure about why the CCC would be needed in a class about the Lutheran Confessions, except as a reference since the confessions often respond to teachings of the Catholic Church (for example, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession is a direct response to the Confutation). Better to have the actual teaching from the CCC than to speculate.

 

[Teneas]

I don’t think I saw it posted here, but I might have missed it. I did only scan it briefly.

During communion, what is the Lutheran take on exactly how long the bread is actually Christ’s body?

And…you guys don’t honor Mary much at all right?

Even though Luther’s own teachings and words on her were Catholic in belief. Just asking, as I honestly don’t know the teachings of your faith.

“She, the Lady above heaven and earth, must have a heart so humble that she might have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for St. John the Baptist, like a servant girl. What humility! It would surely have been more just to have arranged for her a golden coach, pulled by 4,000 horses, and to cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded: ‘Here passes the woman who is raised FAR ABOVE all women, indeed above the WHOLE human race.’”

Martin Luther.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

During communion, what is the Lutheran take on exactly how long the bread is actually Christ’s body?

MY understanding is that Lutheranism simply is not definitive on this. While Lutherans passionately embrace Real Presense, there simply isn’t anything in Holy Scripture that addresses the question you raise.

I think SOME Lutherans would reply to your question with a PIOUS OPINION that Christ is present in connection with it being a Sacrament. This would be a pretty natural extension of the concept of Sacramental Union - a thought often expressed in Lutheranism. Thus, when the Sacrament is completed, so is the union - and thus Christ is not present. I think probably MOST Lutherans would hold that AFTER the Mass, we now have bread and wine (and that’s all) - albeit, most would still treat such with some reverance.

But, as far as I know, there simply is no official doctrine on this point.

And…you guys don’t honor Mary much at all right?

Lutherans embrace, doctrinally, that Mary was a virgin at the Nativity of our Lord and that She is the Mother of God. Some Lutherans use the term “Queen” or “Queen of Heaven” and “Chief of Saints” but I don’t think those terms are found in our Confessions.

Lutherans revere, adore, esteem and honor Mary. But, no, She is not the focus of as much as is the case in much of contemporary Catholicism. It’s not a quality issue, it’s a quantity issue, lol.

Luther personally, as most of the Lutheran Church Fathers, held spiritually to the Marian views OF THEIR DAY. However, with the exception spoken of above, these were not regarded as dogmas. Today, I think most Lutherans are simply “neutral” on this things - neither embracing them or denouncing them. But there are exceptions. My own pastor embraces the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and the Assumption of Mary, for example.

On your Luther quote, you should be aware that Luther is not an authority for Lutherans. Luther said ALL KINDS of things - and we regard such as simply Luther’s views. Many might see some of them wise, some of them horrible. He was a mere mortal; fallible, sinful, accountable. The rule/canon for Lutherans is Scripture (not Luther) and under that, the Lutheran Confessions as " a true exposition of Scripture."

Thank you!

Pax

• Josiah

.

 

[gcnuss]

Do Lutherans as with most I assume before and during seminary go through an extensive discernment process and so on?

There is an ongoing discernment process for those who feel called to the ministry. It begins with initial applications for candidacy and interviews to determine if one is to be allowed to enter the process. Then, while in seminary, there are annual meetings with a candidacy committee and, at the end of the process, a final determination as to whether one is eligible to be ordained.

The seminary faculty is the determining body as far as academic preparation is concerned; the internship supervisor provides (name removed by moderator)ut at to the candidate’s performance in the parish setting; and, the candidacy takes all of that and makes its determination. Of course, the candidate is expected to affirm that he/she will preach and teach in accordance with Holy Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions and will abide by the ELCA’s (I don’t know the details of other Lutheran bodies) expectations of its clergy.

That’s the process in brief.

 

[JonNC]

There is an ongoing discernment process for those who feel called to the ministry. It begins with initial applications for candidacy and interviews to determine if one is to be allowed to enter the process. Then, while in seminary, there are annual meetings with a candidacy committee and, at the end of the process, a final determination as to whether one is eligible to be ordained.

The seminary faculty is the determining body as far as academic preparation is concerned; the internship supervisor provides (name removed by moderator)ut at to the candidate’s performance in the parish setting; and, the candidacy takes all of that and makes its determination. Of course, the candidate is expected to affirm that he/she will preach and teach in accordance with Holy Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions and will abide by the ELCA’s (I don’t know the details of other Lutheran bodies) expectations of its clergy.

That’s the process in brief.

Thanks for your help, Pastor.
Jon

 

[bluelake]

A couple of questions:

1. What are the doctrinal differences in the LCMS and Wisconsin synod?
2. How far do you think the split is going to go with the ELCA Lutherans after the recent decision to allow “gay clergy in a committed relationship”?
3. Martin Luther was devoted to Mary, as evidenced in his writings. When and why did Lutherans abandon Marian devotion?
4. Sometimes Lutherans rail against “man-made teachings” (other Protestant groups are more vocal about this too). Since Lutherans believe revelation was closed when the canon of scripture was put together (at least that’s what I was taught in LCMS catechism), how are the teachings of Martin Luther, a man, justified (pun intended )?

I do not approve of any church that would allow a practicing homosexual to receive Holy Communion. Hetersexuals that are living together are in the same catagory.
We are all required to repent of all sins. LCMS would require this sin to be confessed to the Pastor. Sin is sin. Lets pray for each other.

bluelake

 

[bluelake]

Thanks, Mark.
Perhaps you could be more specific. In what way do we not stand for anything?

Jon

JON,
“For God does not show favoritism.” Rom.2:11
Also, Mt.7:1-5 tells us when we judge others, the same measure we use on others will be used on us.
The Lord loves us all. We were chosen in Him while we were being formed in our mother’s womb. See Ps.139 13-16 Please read this. It’s beautiful. We have an awesome God.

God bless you,
bluelake

 

[IAGladfelter]

There is an ongoing discernment process for those who feel called to the ministry. It begins with initial applications for candidacy and interviews to determine if one is to be allowed to enter the process. Then, while in seminary, there are annual meetings with a candidacy committee and, at the end of the process, a final determination as to whether one is eligible to be ordained.

The seminary faculty is the determining body as far as academic preparation is concerned; the internship supervisor provides (name removed by moderator)ut at to the candidate’s performance in the parish setting; and, the candidacy takes all of that and makes its determination. Of course, the candidate is expected to affirm that he/she will preach and teach in accordance with Holy Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions and will abide by the ELCA’s (I don’t know the details of other Lutheran bodies) expectations of its clergy.

That’s the process in brief.

Missouri Synod Seminaries teach that a seminarian does not come to the seminary with a call to the ministry and may never have a call to the ordained because a call to the ministry comes only from God through the Call Committee of an individual LCMS congregation.

LCMS Seminary faculty (who are the real gatekeepers to ordained ministry in the LCMS) must be convinced that a seminarian, once ordained, will preach and teach in accordance with Holy Scripture (and with the Lutheran Confessions - all of them - “because they are trustworthy witnesses to Scripture.”) Pastors are essentially monitored in this regard by the LCMS Circuit Counselors; and in my experience, most LCMS congregations have laymen who are theologically well educated and astute enough to function as “confessional rottweilers.”

Blessings,
Irl

 

[JonNC]

The following website was brought to my attention by an ELCA member in South Carolina.
It seems there is a growing movement from within the ELCA to return that Lutheran body to Orthodox Lutheranism regarding this past summer’s Churchwide Assemby, and its statement about practicing gays in the clergy.
I pray for these, my fellow Lutherans, in their actions.

reformfromwithin.com/aboutus.html

Jon

 

[jessep28]

I have a Luthean liturgy question:

Today I went to a later Worship service at my congregation. It was a blended worship format. Instead of the standard corporate Confession and Absolution I’m used to in the traditional format, there was a Rite of Baptismal Renewal.

I understand that the Rite was there because we celebrated Jesus’ baptism today in worship, but is this Rite a valid substitute?

Thank you.

 

[JonNC]

I have a Luthean liturgy question:

Today I went to a later Worship service at my congregation. It was a blended worship format. Instead of the standard corporate Confession and Absolution I’m used to in the traditional format, there was a Rite of Baptismal Renewal.

I understand that the Rite was there because we celebrated Jesus’ baptism today in worship, but is this Rite a valid substitute?

Thank you.

jessep,
Is it in the Lutheran Serice Book? I, frankly, have not seen it.
That said, I would definitely expect confession and Absolution, particularly prior to receiving the sacrament. Was there a mechanism within the rite for this to happen?
If not, my first reaction would be quite leary of it as a substitute for confession and Holy absolution.

Jon