"The Baha'i Faith"

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O Supreme Pontiff! Incline thine ear unto that which the Fashioner of mouldering bones counselleth thee, as voiced by Him Who is His Most Great Name. Sell all the embellished ornaments thou dost possess, and expend them in the path of God, Who causeth the night to return upon the day, and the day to return upon the night. Abandon thy kingdom unto the kings, and emerge from thy habitation, with thy face set towards the Kingdom, and, detached from the world, then speak forth the praises of thy Lord betwixt earth and heaven. Thus hath bidden thee He Who is the Possessor of Names, on the part of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Knowing. Exhort thou the kings and say: “Deal equitably with men. Beware lest ye transgress the bounds fixed in the Book.” This indeed becometh thee. Beware lest thou appropriate unto thyself the things of the world and the riches thereof. Leave them unto such as desire them, and cleave unto that which hath been enjoined upon thee by Him Who is the Lord of creation. Should anyone offer thee all the treasures of the earth, refuse to even glance upon them. Be as thy Lord hath been. Thus hath the Tongue of Revelation spoken that which God hath made the ornament of the book of creation.Whatever proceeded from the tongue of the Son was revealed in parables, whilst He Who proclaimeth the Truth in this Day speaketh without them. Take heed lest thou cling to the cord of idle fancy and withhold thyself from that which hath been ordained in the Kingdom of God, the Almighty, the All-Bountiful. Should the inebriation of the wine of My verses seize thee, and thou determinest to present thyself before the throne of thy Lord, the Creator of earth and heaven, make My love thy vesture, and thy shield remembrance of Me, and thy provision reliance upon God, the Revealer of all power.
O followers of the Son! We have once again sent John unto you, and He, verily, hath cried out in the wilderness of the Bayan: O peoples of the world! Cleanse your eyes! The Day whereon ye can behold the Promised One and attain unto Him hath drawn nigh! O followers of the Gospel! Prepare the way! The Day of the advent of the Glorious Lord is at hand! Make ready to enter the Kingdom. Thus hath it been ordained by God, He Who causeth the dawn to break. [Note: The Báb is like John, as John was like Elijah. Matt.11:11]
**This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.

Say: O peoples of all faiths! Walk not in the ways of them that followed the Pharisees and thus veiled themselves from the Spirit. They truly have strayed and are in error. The Ancient Beauty is come in His Most Great Name*, and He wisheth to admit all mankind into His most holy Kingdom. *** Christ’s promise of a new name, Rev. 3:12]
 
DavidMark said:
But in the day of the Qur’án, it was stressed that God “begot none, nor was He begotten”.
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And we know that Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son and Word of God. “Begotten, not made”–as our Creed tells us. Hence we know that the Quran is false.
DavidMark said:
the Word was what Gabriel gave in the Qur’án.
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Christians know that it was not Gabriel who spoke to Mohammed and the Quran is a false teaching. Hence, Baha’i faith is misled.
 
I admire parts of the Baha’i faith, but there is a lot of it that irritates me.

-The going on and on about the equality of women, for example. Granted, they do give women way more value than other faiths seem to do, most are still surprised when they find out that women are not allowed to serve in the Universal House of Justice.

-For that matter, the equality of the world… but homosexuality isn’t included. They are at least consistent that all sex outside of marriage is sinful.

-No liturgical tradition. Sorry folks. Once you’ve been to an Orthodox or Catholic church, anything else is just dull. I can’t imagine the sheer boredom of attending a Protestant service regularly (which I’ve been to… I do live in the South, you know). Remove even that and you have… what? You’re your own preacher, I suppose. There are no sacred orders and monasticism is forbidden.

-No proper or sacred music. An extension of the previous, there is no set sacred music or chant for the Baha’i faith. If one attends a Baha’i service in Iran, you’ll probably hear some chanting. If one attends a Baha’i service in the Unites States, you’ll probably hear what sounds like a Protestant choir or secular instrumental band. Blech.

-The fact that Baha’is are selective in what scriptures they consider valid. If it agrees with something that reinforces their faith, they’ll use it all day long. Any interpretation opposed is considered to be corrupted. I also find it strange that they accept the Bible as at least an attempt at inspiration when the Church (the bishops, that is) is the one that assembled it to begin with.

-The fact that a lot of Baha’is simply won’t argue. They won’t. They won’t defend their faith because they’ve been taught that it causes strife and discord. Thing is, a lot of good ideas and realizations come about due to a meeting of different ideas and the hashing out thereof.

-The fact that Baha’is are taught to be compliant with whatever government they’re living under and are forbidden from becoming involved in politics in any form. They want to change the world… but are forbidden from actively doing anything to change governmental policy. Ridiculous. They want a one-world government with a congress and a theocratic monarchy at the same time… yeah, good luck with that.

-Forbidden images. I’m sorry and I know it seems nitpicky, but I’m all about some sacred images. I can’t image why someone wouldn’t want iconography in their faith tradition. That’s a holdover from Shi’a Islam.

-The fact that major differences exist between the Manifestations and the overall theology of the faith as a whole. For example… it says very little about the Eucharist, when the Real Presence has been around as long as the Church has. If I remember correctly, the Baha’is say that it should be read metaphorically. I completely disagree. Jesus was being literal in saying that. Another sticking point is polygamy. Jesus pretty much ended polygamy… Muhammad brought it back… Baha’u’llah ended it again, but he was a polygamist.

-Horror stories from ex-members about how the UHJ has treated them. I know one shouldn’t judge a religion by it’s ex-adherents, but I disagree with people that say one should only look at what adherents say. You can learn a lot from ex-members who have documentation to back up their story.

I can keep going, I suppose but that gets most of my complaints out of the way.

Like I said, the religions isn’t bad, I suppose. It makes a great attempt to reconcile all of these religions together and to end the waiting for the return of the various persons religions are waiting on (The Bab was both John the Baptist and the Mahdi, Baha’u’llah is the return of Christ, the return of the Buddha, an avatar of Vishnu like Krishna, etc).
Mickey said:
Christians know that it was not Gabriel who spoke to Mohammed and the Quran is a false teaching. Hence, Baha’i faith is misled.
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No, you assume it wasn’t… unless you were eavesdropping outside the cave at the time.
 
NoWings said:
No, you assume it wasn’t… unless you were eavesdropping outside the cave at the time.
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If I am not mistaken, Muhammed ran in fear the first couple times this entity appeared to him before he realized it was “the angel Gabriel”. Does the term “be not afraid” mean anything to you? Furthermore, this entity dictated things that are in complete oppostition to the Sacred Scriptures.

He spoke to something alright—but it was not the angel Gabriel. 😉
 
Hello There, I would like to add my information. That there will be no prophet after Muhammad SAW/PBUH. And our beloved prophet told us that there will be 30 dajjal known as ANTICHRIST. Which suppose to appear before judgement day. And he is count one of them. If you are saying jack believe in that Bahiullah is prophet. Than hundred percent he is one of the antichrist. I am thinking when is PAUL born. Can anyone tell me please.
 
Mickey said:
If I am not mistaken, Muhammed ran in fear the first couple times this entity appeared to him before he realized it was “the angel Gabriel”. Does the term “be not afraid” mean anything to you? Furthermore, this entity dictated things that are in complete oppostition to the Sacred Scriptures.

He spoke to something alright—but it was not the angel Gabriel. 😉
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Jonah did the same thing before he gave in.

shrug
 
I have Baha’i friends and neighbors & one of our Parish Council members is married to a Baha’i. A few of those friends were Catholic and converted to the Baha’i faith before I met them. They don’t try to convert me and I don’t try to convert them – I figure if I haven’t been able to convert my husband after 34 years, and I haven’t been able to keep my own children in the Church, I have no hope of converting anyone else.
 
Post from the bahai fellow:
Now, God can do as He likes with His creation. In Jesus day, all the rulers claimed to be sons of this or that god. But in the day of the Qur’án, it was stressed that God “begot none, nor was He begotten”. It is like saying north is south, water is wine, or earth is the heavenly kingdom. “He doeth whatsoever He willeth”.
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**Please explain what you mean by the words colored above. Did Quran say North is South?

Also let us know about Jesus. Did Jesus die on the Cross? Was he Crucified (meaning died on the Cross)?? Quran denies that Jesus was Crucified. Church says that Jesus was Crucified. What do the Bahai’s say about it. If Bahais believe that Jesus die don the cross then there will be few more questions on that subject.

You have mentioned that Bahaullah was the second manifestation of Jesus and Karishna. Was Bahaullah a prophet?Did Bahaullah claim to be a prophet? I am asking because in one of your posts you have shown the revelation made by Bahaullah to Pope, he seemed to be appearing as a Great Lord ( or Lord of Lords. ) Does Lord of Lords means a prophet of God?

Please explain by your reply.**
 
If one very carefully uses the definition of prophet as a social reformer and critic of the society in which he lives, then Bahá’u’lláh was a prophet. For those who do not believe as we believe in Jesus, He also fulfilled that definition.

I do NOT understand why two religions of such similar traditions have such a difficult time getting along. :(🤷
 
LOL Baha’i and Islam. I knew that I was opening myself up for a good one, since the relationship between Christianity and Judaism has had similar troubles. Maybe that is why the HQ of Baha’i is in Israel. 😃
 
Dear friends, We have a good gathering of opinions in this “Baha’i corner”. I want to see more dialogue like this, because Baha’i is not going to fade away. It has grown from strength to strength, no matter how many mujtahids screamed it was “dajjal”.
Mickey’s opinion is that it is a cult, but Baha’i is not formed around a living leader, nor does it control your finances, who you can meet with, isolating you from society, as many cults do.
TomNossor’s advice remains very important. Study the original texts and try to understand the success of Baha’i among a cross-section of all the world’s classes and races. How often do you get the chance to personally verify a challenging messianic movement?
But remember the Baha’i Interpreters, 'Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi, whose explanations were authorized, as part of Bahá’u’lláh’s heritage. No women on the Universal House of Justice? There is a wisdom in this which “will erelong be made manifest as clearly as the sun at high noon.” Baha’i submit to this because they are belivers. If oe’s soul refuses to submit, than they should review their ‘belief’.
gamorgan, if I understand correctly, thinks there is no appearance of Christ in an individual at the Parousia; but this is what Bahá’u’lláh stresses, and what seekers must decide.
Moreover, He is not coming back in the station of “the Son”, but as the “Everlasting Father” promised by Isaiah, (not the Godhead, but as Yahweh Sabaoth, the Lord of Hosts) with the long-promised, hidden Greatest Name revealed. There are traditions that Archangel Michael knew this name, and would reveal it in time, and we know Michael appears at the second coming as, or with Christ.
NoWings thinks not laving a liturgy is dull. I would offer The Long Healing Prayer which can be found at bahaiprayers.org/healing6.htm It is not read in unison, but it is a blessing to those in the house in which it is. Also, NoWings makes goods points about Gabriel and Jonah; but about future government, the writings of Shoghi Effendi make it clear that it is not any one of the forms man has tried already…but will incorporate the best of them. Monarchy may almost disappear before it comes back with the humility it should have to the King of Kings.
Tomshaikh: If you met a Bahá’í, a lover of Bahá’u’lláh (note spelling) would you feel it your duty to report them or dispatch them from this world? Do what you think you have to do.
It is amusing to the Baha’is, even those on ‘death row’ in Evin Prison, that the Shiites haven’t learned anything about how martyrdom perpetuates memories in the survivors.
Phemie respects choices made by other souls. Such friends can accomplish great things together in the inter-faith groups that tackle our problems.
Planten: Jesus was crucified, but the spirit of Christ was not. This was what the Qur’án meant, and has been mis-interpreted by Islam since.
Also, the Qur’án did not refer to north & south, (that I know of in this way) -Bahá’u’lláh did:
Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it. ( Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 109)
The point I was trying to make is that “All things are made new” even though the garbage still needs taken out, picked up, sorted. recycled etc… The Divine Physician can change the prescription when the symptoms require it at a later time. That is why Gabriel instructed the Prophet to change the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca, and why it is changed again to Bahjí, Bahá’u’lláh’s Shrine, outside Akka, in northern Israel.

How stern the Revelation is to the Arab! irritated that the Jews have come back, when their return was one of the very signs of the Advent. There they are. He must be in the world. Who do we have to choose from? Ezekiel 36:33 says
“On the day” , “that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be re-built…” And elsewhere (43:2)
“,the Glory of the God of Israel came from the east; and the sound of His coming was like the sound of many waters…the Glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east”.
To us, this is saying that the Divine Manifestation, which is known by different names in different ages, came after the Báb (Gate) in Persia (east of Palestine) and He came “into the temple”, that is, His body is the five-pointed Haykal (temple)…not that the temple will be re-built on the Temple mount in Jerusalem… More later.
 
Since they (Baha’is) use the scriptures to suit what their adherents itching ears (2 Timothy 4:3) would like to hear, witnessing to them starts on what is the proper way to interpret the scriptures–literal, historical, grammatical. But their method is to allegorize the scriptures to suit their assumptions therefore this is where the Christian witness must start to wrestle to tell them how to correctly handle the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).
What makes this cult group specially dangerous is its subtle form of pluralism. It is like a sponge with evolving doctrines that absorbs from all the other teachings harmonizing them as if they can really be harmonized dealing away with the conflicts in their core differences by saying the ordinary man has a limited understanding and that only the Manifestations of God has infallible understanding of God’s message to mankind.
The Lord Jesus himself said,
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.” (John 14:6)
There is no way of getting around this explicit passage. This is even corroborated by Peter’s message at Pentecost,
“There is salvation in none other, for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!” (Acts 4:12)
And by Paul in 1 Timothy 2:5,
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
And in Galatians 3:20,
“Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”

thebereans.net/prof-bahai.shtml
 
Thank you, DavidMark, for that link. I am very interested in Baha’i as an antithesis of Mormonism.

Mickey, I agree with you. Even though Baha’i is good, Catholicism, with Jesus at a higher level, and liturgy and sacramentality, is better. I can live Baha’i values within Catholicism. And I am reaching a better understanding of Catholic teachings on reproductive ethics, the primary exception.
 
Mickey said:
Be very careful. Do not compromise your faith. They claim the foundations of Christianity and the religion of Baha’u’llah are one.
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Beliefs are often separate from values. There are some critical differences in beliefs, denial of Trinity, Virgin Birth, Resurrection, and Transubstantiation? 😃 At least it is better than fundamentalist Islam and LDS. 😉

All roads lead to Rome. Let God do the leading.
 
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

First Proof
When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of Him. (Deut. 18:22) [The many prophecies made by Bahá’u’lláh can be studied elsewhere.]
Second Proof
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2 & 3) [Bahá’u’lláh’s words about Christ are as natural as Christ’s about Moses.]
Third Proof
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:16-20) [So what are the fruits? Notice Jesus repeats that you SHALL know them by this test.]

I am here to try to answer questions about the relation of Bahá’í teachings to Catholic doctrine. Far be in from me to try to convert anyone. If the kings did not respond to Bahá’u’lláh’s epistles, then you guys probably won’t respond to my postings…
To say Bahá’í is just a heretical Muslim sect would invite some to say that Christianity is just a heretical Jewish sect, begun longer ago. Yet, there are many interesting parallels, the greatest of which are the ministries and martyrdoms of Jesus and the Báb…

Jerusha: You said “There are some critical differences in beliefs, denial of Trinity, Virgin Birth, Resurrection, and Transubstantiation?”
The Trinity, yes, we do not see the three aspects as co-equal, but rather as the ralationship of the Sun (The Godhead) in the Mirror (The Son) by means of the Rays (Holy Spirit)
The Virgin Birth is established in the Qur’an and the Baha’i Writings.
The Physical Resurrection was not seen by anyone living. But what is important to me is that the early church, which is the “body of Christ” arose after three days of dis-illusionment, and went out and taught the faith! IF they had not, I would not have learned.
Trans-substantiation can be concluded with this understanding:
“For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes” (1 Cor. 11:26 NAB)
“To build anew the whole world” is the claim and challenge of His Message, and the Kitáb-i-Aqdas is the Charter of the future world civilization that Bahá’u’lláh has come to raise up. Its provisions rest squarely on the foundation established by past religions, for, in the
words of Bahá’u’lláh, "This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future."

Moreover, why were the common people in each age so magnetized by His love that they were willing to spread the Word throughout the world and die for it?
When seekers hunger enough, they adhere to the best leadership they can find; and the Best Beloved will surely make His own way known so that people may find it. In this Day, no one has the power to bring mankind together except God. Some will come into His ark, and some won’t.
 
To Planten: Jesus was crucified, but the spirit of Christ was not. This was what the Qur’án meant, and has been mis-interpreted by Islam since.
Also, the Qur’án did not refer to north & south, (that I know of in this way) -Bahá’u’lláh did:
Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it. ( Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 109)
The point I was trying to make is that “All things are made new” even though the garbage still needs taken out, picked up, sorted. recycled etc… The Divine Physician can change the prescription when the symptoms require it at a later time. That is why Gabriel instructed the Prophet to change the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca,
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**Thanks DM, you are a Baha’i. We need your help to understand Bahai’ism. You are also interested in explaining the Baha’i faith. You have replied to my questions in the above words.

You say “Jesus was crucified but the spirit of Christ was not.” Does it mean that only the body of Jesus was Crucified? Crucified means death on the cross. So according to you, the body of Jesus died on the cross. But his spirit did not die? What do you mean? please explain all that.

We all know that body dies. The spirit does not die. That is the case with every one of us. At death, the spirit (soul) is taken away permanently from the body and never returned back to the dead body. You should present my post completely and then reply to each item that I asked.

From North and South, you have written that Bahaullah spoke about it: Were He** to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it.

It appears that it is not understood. Will you tell who is “He” in your above quote?

In a way, you have said Quran was right when it said that "Jesus was not Crucified " because his spirit was not crucified. But the later day Muslims misunderstood that matter. Is that what you want to say? Be with me, because it is in the good times of Islam that Bahaism has started. So Muslims will have many questions about the Baha’i faith.

There is no doubt that the Muslims were not undertanding the true meaning of the Quran. So what was needed? Was it necessary to do away with the Quran?, or it was necessary to teach the correct meanings of the Quran to the world.??
 
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