The Baptist Church and it's policy on baptism

[MontChevalier]

Bonjour,

I had a conversation with my friend the other day about the differences in our faiths. And one thing I noted about her faith was that her church didn’t receive baptism as babies. She rationalized it, saying,“Babies just don’t understand the symbolism of baptism.”

So, why do Catholics do it to babies?

This one led me to seek out others more experienced in these matters than I.

Au revoir,
-MontChevalier

 

[Cruxis117]

We do infant baptism simply because baptism is not just symbolic. It does have a symbolism, however it really does carry grace to the person being baptized. It leaves a spiritual seal on the soul which can never be truly erased, and baptism removes original sin from a person (and any other sins, if the person being baptized is an adult). We, as Catholics, believe in baptismal regeneration. We literally are born again.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Quick Answers
Baptism: Sinner’s Prayer is All Wet
The Church, Sacraments, and Salvation
Wilted TULIP: No Love for Calvinism

 

[drywall]

We do infant baptism simply because baptism is not just symbolic. It does have a symbolism, however it really does carry grace to the person being baptized. It leaves a spiritual seal on the soul which can never be truly erased, and baptism removes original sin from a person (and any other sins, if the person being baptized is an adult). We, as Catholics, believe in baptismal regeneration. We literally are born again.

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

 

[campeador]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

How can a person be born again and not be baptized?

Born again = born again of water and the Holy Spirit = Baptized

 

[Cruxis117]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

People have the ability to reject our baptism. We have free will, this is a fact. What do you say about the reverse? The person who has gone through the “believer’s baptism”, but is a nominal Christian? And what about the Catholic who was baptized as an infant, and is a dedicated Christian? I mean, I can throw out this example at you as well. There was no such thing as “believer’s baptism” in the Bible. If we look at John 3:5, Jesus explicitly says, “You must be born again of water and spirit”. What was it that Jesus did after he had said this? He went out with his disciples, and had them go baptizing. The last command Jesus says in Matthew is to go out and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. If we look at Acts, when Philip met the Eunuch, they were traveling and had found some water, the Eunuch said this (This is in the ESV, but I can use another version if necessary):

Acts 8:36-39
36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.

The Eunuch made a clear connection between water and baptism. If this were not so, then why did they have to get to water at all for there to be baptism? They could have just done this “believer’s baptism” that you spoke of. It’s clear that baptism involved water, that water baptism, that baptismal regeneration, is the Scriptural way.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

Umm the same thing that I would say to a person who obtained a believer’s baptism and then turned away from the faith:** you rejected your baptism**.

 

[jlhargus]

ADD remarks latter

 

[LOCO]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

Hello drywall,

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, “Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” When Jesus said “water and the Spirit,” He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

The Catholic Church recognises the Baptist Church baptisms as ‘valid’ baptisms and that of some other Protestant churches.

f you have never been baptised in the ‘Holy Spirit and of water’ then you are not a Christian in the Catholic understanding and also I believe in a lot of Protestant understanding.

For Catholics Baptism actually does something to the soul, it is ‘salvific’ not merely ‘symbolic’.

Jesus was baptised in water and the Holy Spirit descended upon himin the form of a dove.

John 3:22 - after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptised. Jesus’ teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.

John 4:1 - here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus’ baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.

Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism. Water and baptism are never separated in the Scriptures.

Acts 10:47 - Peter says “can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people…?” The Bible always links water and baptism.

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism. “Washing” (loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse. “Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.

2 Kings 5:14 - Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.

In Acts 1:4–5 Jesus charged his disciples “not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, ‘you heard from me, for John baptised with water, but before many days you shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit.’”

The whole house of Lydia was ‘baptised’ by St Paul based on the faith of Lydia. The whole house of Cornelius was ‘baptised’ by St Peter based on the faith of Cornelius. These households included infants and children.This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents’ faith, not the children’s faith.

There are ‘born again believers’ who have not been baptised of water and spirit, who are also sinful miserable creatures, Satan is undiscerning when it comes to whose soul he ruins.

That is why Catholics have access to the Sacraments to assist us in our daily struggles with this spiritual warfare.

 

[Tony888]

Bonjour,

I had a conversation with my friend the other day about the differences in our faiths. And one thing I noted about her faith was that her church didn’t receive baptism as babies. She rationalized it, saying,“Babies just don’t understand the symbolism of baptism.”

So, why do Catholics do it to babies?

This one led me to seek out others more experienced in these matters than I.

Au revoir,
-MontChevalier

Mont Chevalier,
as I mentioned in another thread, my understanding is RCC baptism is really an initiation rite where the parents and Godparents are expressing their commitment to raise the child in the Church… Effectively, it replaced the Jewish initiation rite of circumcision for babies.

I think when you compare the Baptist ceremony of baptism with the Catholic sacraments of confirmation (receiving the Holy Ghost) and pennance,(repentance) you are on equal footing. It is not coincidence that all these activities happen around 8 yrs of age, when the young are first expected to understand what is happening and have the ability to commit.

Net, different sacraments are achieving the same results.

 

[William_Pitts]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth. You can not be born again

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible No, it is NOT

drywall

There are many Protestants who will certainly disagree with you. It is not your place to judge the outcome of peoples lives.

God bless you on your journey.

 

[LOCO]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

The other thing I wanted to say is that the Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic Church is the first step to a lifelong process.

If you were baptised as an infant then usually at the ‘age of reason’ around 7-9 children receive the Sacrament of Confirmation where they also experience their first Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession).

Salvation is not a one time event, it is a lifelong event, because we are faced with ‘temptations’ and spiritual warfare from day one till death.

Just because you get baptised as a baby or even as child, a young adult or much later in life, the journey to salvation hasn’t ended.

 

[drywall]

People have the ability to reject our baptism. We have free will, this is a fact. What do you say about the reverse? The person who has gone through the “believer’s baptism”, but is a nominal Christian? And what about the Catholic who was baptized as an infant, and is a dedicated Christian? I mean, I can throw out this example at you as well. There was no such thing as “believer’s baptism” in the Bible. If we look at John 3:5, Jesus explicitly says, “You must be born again of water and spirit”. What was it that Jesus did after he had said this? He went out with his disciples, and had them go baptizing. The last command Jesus says in Matthew is to go out and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. If we look at Acts, when Philip met the Eunuch, they were traveling and had found some water, the Eunuch said this (This is in the ESV, but I can use another version if necessary):

The Eunuch made a clear connection between water and baptism. If this were not so, then why did they have to get to water at all for there to be baptism? They could have just done this “believer’s baptism” that you spoke of. It’s clear that baptism involved water, that water baptism, that baptismal regeneration, is the Scriptural way.

it would seem that you left out the most (name removed by moderator)ortant part of Acts 36 - 40. You know, the part where philip tells the eunuch that he must beleive frist before he is baptised.

drywall

 

[Jim_Dandy]

it would seem that you left out the most (name removed by moderator)ortant part of Acts 36 - 40. You know, the part where philip tells the eunuch that he must beleive frist before he is baptised.

drywall

Philip was speaking to an adult. He was not delivering a complete teaching on Baptism.

The NT is not an instruction book in Christianity, as Protestants have tried to make it.

Jesus didn’t leave us a book – nor did he tell anyone to write a single word. He left us the Catholic Church as our teacher. From the beginning, infants and children were baptized. Why? Because the Apostles taught it. Lots of babies were born to the new Christians (Catholics) between A.D. 33 and the death of the last Apostle.

The Bible came out of the Church – the Church did not come out of the Bible. The Bible is not the sum total of God’s revelation. That’s a 16th century myth.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

So what do you say to a person that has been born again but has never been baptized or how do you explain a person that has been baptized as a infant, claims to be Catholic but is the most miserable, sinful person on earth.

Baptist baptism is believers baptism like in the Bible

drywall

Please show me anywhere in the Bible you must accept Christ first before you can be Baptized!

Matthew

 

[AmericanMuslim]

If memory serves, in the Baptist tradition (and other Protestant traditions), “accepting Jesus as your savior” is critical for salvation, but baptism is purely symbolic.

In other words, you could “accept Jesus as your savior”, die, and enter paradise without having been baptized (though they are commonly done at the same time in some Protestant traditions).

 

[drywall]

People have the ability to reject our baptism. We have free will, this is a fact. What do you say about the reverse? The person who has gone through the “believer’s baptism”, but is a nominal Christian? And what about the Catholic who was baptized as an infant, and is a dedicated Christian? I mean, I can throw out this example at you as well. There was no such thing as “believer’s baptism” in the Bible. If we look at John 3:5, Jesus explicitly says, “You must be born again of water and spirit”. What was it that Jesus did after he had said this? He went out with his disciples, and had them go baptizing. The last command Jesus says in Matthew is to go out and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. If we look at Acts, when Philip met the Eunuch, they were traveling and had found some water, the Eunuch said this (This is in the ESV, but I can use another version if necessary):

The Eunuch made a clear connection between water and baptism. If this were not so, then why did they have to get to water at all for there to be baptism? They could have just done this “believer’s baptism” that you spoke of. It’s clear that baptism involved water, that water baptism, that baptismal regeneration, is the Scriptural way.

Believers Baptism is when a born again believer is baptised in water. the eunuch confess his belief in the Son of God Jesus Christ before he was baptized.

drywall

 

[campeador]

Believers Baptism is when a born again believer is baptised in water. the eunuch confess his belief in the Son of God Jesus Christ before he was baptized.

drywall

Again, could you please explain how someone can be ‘born again of water and the Holy Spirit’ without being baptized?

 

[TimothyH]

Mont Chevalier,
as I mentioned in another thread, my understanding is RCC baptism is really an initiation rite where the parents and Godparents are expressing their commitment to raise the child in the Church… Effectively, it replaced the Jewish initiation rite of circumcision for babies.

I think when you compare the Baptist ceremony of baptism with the Catholic sacraments of confirmation (receiving the Holy Ghost) and pennance,(repentance) you are on equal footing. It is not coincidence that all these activities happen around 8 yrs of age, when the young are first expected to understand what is happening and have the ability to commit.

Net, different sacraments are achieving the same results.

Baptism is much more than an initiation rite. It is infinitely more than a simple expression of intent. Baptism is efficacious - it actally removes sin and makes the person acceptable to God. The Bible speaks of being “Washed” and “Cleansed”. This is not symbolic.

That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthains 6:11)

It is not an initiation ritual like entering a fraternity or a club. It is more than just an outward expression of the parent’s intent to do anything. When performed with the proper form, Baptism actually changes us. Polycarp was a disciple and student of the Apsotle John and was baptized as an infant. There is evidence that he was baptized by the Apostle himself. The early Church bears witness to the widespread practice of infant baptism…

Justin Martyr (150 AD):: “And both men and women who have been Christ’s disciples since infancy, remain pure, and at the age of sixty or seventy years …” (Justin Martyr, First Apology,15:6 – AD 110-165)

Origen (244 AD): “Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And, indeed, if there were nothing in infants that required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of Baptism would be superfluous.” (Origen, Homily on Leviticus 8:3 – AD 244)

Cyprian (250 AD): “But in respect to the case of infants, which you say ought not to be Baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be Baptized and sanctified within the eighth day …And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from Baptism …we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons.” (Cyprian, Epistle 58, To Fides [54] – AD 251)

And on and on and on… People can claim whatever they want about baptism but the earliest Christians believed that it actually changes us, cleanses us of sin, and that infants should be baptized. To claim that this wasn’t the belief of the earliest Christians is to ignore history.

-Tim-

 

[plaintruth]

Catholicism believes if you are initiated to be a part of the church, your consent able or unable, you become a part of the family of God.

Baptists on the other believe that one should choose God, or to follow God to become part of the family of God.

the critical word here is ‘to choose to follow God’. it has an element of individualism and choice which is obviously more likely present in adults rather than babies.

you will not find JC preaching/teaching to babies or children in the bible, nor find the apostles preaching to children or babies too.

always the message is directed to adults, always the message is ’ if you will…’ - a choice is given.

the most beloved verse reveals this message explicity. this will more than convince you that there is no spiritual significance to the ritual of infant baptism. what matters most is that when you come of age, will you still choose christ ?

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Bonjour,

I had a conversation with my friend the other day about the differences in our faiths. And one thing I noted about her faith was that her church didn’t receive baptism as babies. She rationalized it, saying,“Babies just don’t understand the symbolism of baptism.”

So, why do Catholics do it to babies?
This one led me to seek out others more experienced in these matters than I.

Au revoir,
-MontChevalier