The Baptist Church and it's policy on baptism

[jlhargus]

Babies that die go to heaven. In the Old Testament King David know that he would see his baby boy that died in heaven when he died. drywall

JL: Where is that in the Bible? Not true, no one went to heaven before Christ’s assended. Why did Christ die on the cross if we could have gone to heaven? King David didn’t go to heaven when he died, but to sheol where all souls went before Christ The just went to the chamber of paradise (Abraham’s Bosom) the unjust to the chamber of torment. Read the rich man and Lazarus, Lk16. Big difference. Look it up in scripture and actually read about David and his child. Don’t rely on oral traditions of men handed down to you, 2Sam12.

 

[drywall]

JL: Where is that in the Bible? Not true, no one went to heaven before Christ’s assended. Why did Christ die on the cross if we could have gone to heaven? King David didn’t go to heaven when he died, but to sheol where all souls went before Christ The just went to the chamber of paradise (Abraham’s Bosom) the unjust to the chamber of torment. Read the rich man and Lazarus, Lk16. Big difference. Look it up in scripture and actually read about David and his child. Don’t rely on oral traditions of men handed down to you, 2Sam12.

These are temperary places, King David and his son and all that were believers in the Old testament are now in heaven. I have read about David, in fact the whole Bible over a hundred times.

drywall

 

[crazzeto]

Bonjour,

I had a conversation with my friend the other day about the differences in our faiths. And one thing I noted about her faith was that her church didn’t receive baptism as babies. She rationalized it, saying,“Babies just don’t understand the symbolism of baptism.”

So, why do Catholics do it to babies?

This one led me to seek out others more experienced in these matters than I.

Au revoir,
-MontChevalier

Luke Chapter 5 helps us understand infant baptism

Douay

. [18] And behold, men brought in a bed a man, who had the palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him. [19] And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in, because of the multitude, they went up upon the roof, and let him down through the tiles with his bed into the midst before Jesus. [20] Whose faith when he saw, he said: Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

RSV

18And behold, men were bringing on a bed a man who was paralyzed, and they sought to bring him in and lay him before Jesus;q 19but finding no way to bring him in, because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and let him down with his bed through the tiles into their midst before Jesus. 20And when he saw their faith he said, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”

(2009). The Ignatius Bible . Ignatius Press. Kindle Edition.

We can see here, that the faith of another can stand in place for one who is unable (physically) to have, understand or express faith. If this was the case for the man lowered from the ceiling, why would it not be the case for an infant? More over, when whole homes were baptised, do we really beleive that infants were not also baptised?

This is a Tradition of the church dating back to the begining, and the scriptures show us how it is possible. God bless,

 

[drywall]

In a nut shell ; Baptist believe that a child before the age of reason, or before thay are able to understand are in God’s special care. If they should happen to die they will go to heaven. When a child is old enough to understand, and that is not the same for every child, then it is the same as a adult, faith comes by hearing the Word of God as the Bible teaches.
The Holy Spirit applies that teaching to a persons heart giving that person a efficual call to salvation thereby being born again.
An efficual call is a call by God to salvation that a person can not or will notrefuse

drywall

 

[jlhargus]

Babies that die go to heaven. In the Old Testament King David know that he would see his baby boy that died in heaven when he died. drywall

These are temperary places, King David and his son and all that were believers in the Old testament are now in heaven. I have read about David, in fact the whole Bible over a hundred times. drywall

JL: Then it should be easy for you to post the scripture that tells us David knew sheol was temperary and he would go to heaven WHEN HE DIED. Point is David did not know he would go to heaven he thought he would go to sheol where he thought his child would be. David went to shoel WHEN HE DIED.

I notice you have not addressed my other post why?

 

[jlhargus]

In a nut shell ; Baptist believe that a child before the age of reason, or before thay are able to understand are in God’s special care. If they should happen to die they will go to heaven. When a child is old enough to understand, and that is not the same for every child, then it is the same as a adult, faith comes by hearing the Word of God as the Bible teaches.
The Holy Spirit applies that teaching to a persons heart giving that person a efficual call to salvation thereby being born again.
An efficual call is a call by God to salvation that a person can not or will notrefuse

drywall

JL: Do you have scripture evidence or is this teaching an oral tradition outside scripture? Tell me do they make a distinction between clean and unclean infants.

Christ tells us in [Jn3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, **Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ] Are infants BORN AGAIN? How?

[J3:5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, **Except a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ] How are infants BORN of water AND of the Holy Spirit? How other than water baptism

[Jn3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.] Are ALL men not first naturally BORN OF FLESH? According to you infants cant be BORN AGAIN without BELIEVING.

 

[Nicea325]

it would seem that you left out the most (name removed by moderator)ortant part of Acts 36 - 40. You know, the part where philip tells the eunuch that he must beleive frist before he is baptised.

drywall

Chapter and verse where this is the ONLY acceptable method of baptizing? I truly feel sorry for those not capable of making an intellectual decision about believing before baptizing,thus applying your argument.

 

[Cat_Herder]

‘salvation by faith’ - where did you come from?

i thought this discussion was about ‘the baptist church and its policy on baptism’. perhaps you are in the wrong thread.

The whole Baptist rationale for not baptizing babies is tied up with their argument that salvation is by faith alone. If salvation is by grace alone (period) rather than by “grace alone through faith alone” then there is no longer an argument against infant baptism.

In a nut shell ; Baptist believe that a child before the age of reason, or before thay are able to understand are in God’s special care. If they should happen to die they will go to heaven. When a child is old enough to understand, and that is not the same for every child, then it is the same as a adult, faith comes by hearing the Word of God as the Bible teaches.
The Holy Spirit applies that teaching to a persons heart giving that person a efficual call to salvation thereby being born again.

Again, you need to explain how someone who is age of reason minus one day old is saved, and how one day later that kid is going to hell unless he professes his faith pronto!

An efficual call is a call by God to salvation that a person can not or will notrefuse

Please explain Hebrews 10:26 then. People are always free to refuse God’s call, unfortunately.

 

[drywall]

Drywall wrote:

We will show you in scripture where it says children were born again because their parents brought them to Jesus (or had a priest baptise them, which is same thing) as soon as you show us in scripture where it says that everything man needs to know about God and his plan for our salvation is contained in the Bible (even your incomplete version). Now that’s a safe statement! Protestants have been shouting “Where is that in the Bible?” for 494 years, when their foundational belief that the Bible is the only rule of faith is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

Romans 10 : 17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word Of God

Let’s finish what Peter said: v. 39 - For the promise is to you and your children and to all that are far off [including their children], every one whom the Lord our God calls to him./B]

only those that God calls to himself (the elect)

Jim Dandy

 

[crazzeto]

Romans 10 : 17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word Of God

Problem you have by trying to make the restriction you attempt to make is, what do you do with Luke 5:18-20? It wasn’t the faith of the invilid that caused his sins to be forgiven, it was the faith of his friends whom lowered him to Christ.

I’m sorry, but when one considers the full bible, one can’t argue against infant baptism.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Romans 10 : 17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word Of God

Protestants, in my experience, shoot verses at each other and end up proving nothing but their own mindset.

The Apostles baptized babies. The first Christians, who were taught by the Apostles own lips, had their babies baptized. Therefore, Catholics have their babies baptized.

If yours is the correct interpretation, why do Lutherans, Presbyterians, and other Bible-only Christians baptize their babies?

Christ told his Apostles to baptize all nations – don’t all nations have children?

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

**Jim Dandy originally wrote:**Let’s finish what Peter said: v. 39 - For the promise is to you and your children and to all that are far off [including their children], every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.

drywall replied:
only those that God calls to himself (the elect)

This is the old Calvinist argument that God predestines some to heaven and therefore some to hell; and that we are powerless to do anything about it – called double predestination. The Catholic Church rejects this 16th century invention.

Are you saying that if the parent is not “elect” (chosen for heaven), neither are his children? Predestination is contagious?

Of course, you know you’re “elect” – right? Can’t go to hell. God won’t let you.:nope:

 

[drywall]

This is the old Calvinist argument that God predestines some to heaven and therefore some to hell; and that we are powerless to do anything about it – called double predestination. The Catholic Church rejects this 16th century invention.

Are you saying that if the parent is not “elect” (chosen for heaven), neither are his children? Predestination is contagious?

Of course, you know you’re “elect” – right? Can’t go to hell. God won’t let you.:nope:

I know of people that are born again Christians but their parents are not and I know parents that are not christains and some of their chrildern are born again Christians

Romans 8: 16 I have recieved the witness of the Spirit of God that I am his son, and no I won’t go to hell. I belong to God and my God is faithful to keep me from falling

drywall

 

[Zenas]

I know of people that are born again Christians but their parents are not and I know parents that are not christains and some of their chrildern are born again Christians

Romans 8: 16 I have recieved the witness of the Spirit of God that I am his son, and no I won’t go to hell. I belong to God and my God is faithful to keep me from falling

drywall

Hey Drywall, can you explain to me why 100% of all Calvinists think they are part of the elect? Apparently the damned are only to be found among non calvinists.

And while I’m asking questions, why do so many of you feel compelled to spread Calvinism with such evangelical fervor?

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Originally posted by Jim Dandy:
If yours is the correct interpretation, why do Lutherans, Presbyterians, and other Bible-only Christians baptize their babies?

Drywall, you overlooked (or ignored) the question above. Your answer, please?

Big time Baptist Charles Templeton, was the #2 guy in the Billy Graham ministry who preached the Once Saved Always Saved (aka Preservation of the Saints) doctrine of the “elect” all over the world, Was God faithful to keep him from falling, even though he died an atheist? His atheism was just an illusion, I 'spose, and he went straight to heaven like all of the “elect.”.

Jim Dandy

 

[drywall]

Hey Drywall, can you explain to me why 100% of all Calvinists think they are part of the elect? Apparently the damned are only to be found among non calvinists.

And while I’m asking questions, why do so many of you feel compelled to spread Calvinism with such evangelical fervor?

answer to first question, because all the elect are born with a green stripe on their back and only Calvinist have a green stripe

It is not calvinism that we spread with evangelical fervor but the gospel because we do not know who has the green stripe on their back and who does not

drywall

 

[JonNC]

Protestants, in my experience, shoot verses at each other and end up proving nothing but their own mindset.

The Apostles baptized babies. The first Christians, who were taught by the Apostles own lips, had their babies baptized. Therefore, Catholics have their babies baptized.

If yours is the correct interpretation, why do Lutherans, Presbyterians, and other Bible-only Christians baptize their babies?

Christ told his Apostles to baptize all nations – don’t all nations have children?

Jim Dandy

Hi Jim,
Since you mentioned Lutherans, this from the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, which mirrors the position of the Catholic Church.

For it is very certain that the promise of salvation pertains also to little children [that the divine promises of grace and of the Holy Ghost belong not alone to the old, but also to children].

[and]

Therefore it is necessary to baptize little children, that the promise of salvation may be applied to them, according to Christ’s command, Matt. 28:19: Baptize all nations. Just as here salvation is offered to all, so Baptism is offered to all, to men, women, children, infants. It clearly follows, therefore, that infants are to be baptized, because with Baptism salvation [the universal grace and treasure of the Gospel] is offered. 53] Secondly, it is manifest that God approves of the baptism of little children.

Jon

 

[Loboto-Me]

I also heard something that makes sense in a very simple way about infant baptism the other day… Hope I can paraphrase the idea properly here

Baptism, giving us the indelible mark of Christ on our souls, adopts us into the family of God in a very real way, therefore, it gives us our “Last Name” if you will. Does a child need to know everything about his new family in order to be adopted? No, once that child is adopted into the new family, the child learns what it is to be a part of that family gradually. Now, can adopted children run away from their parents? Sure can.

 

[plaintruth]

common sense is no theology. its just an opinion. what feels like ok, is not always what is true. we are after truth aren’t we? or just another feel-good religion.

I also heard something that makes sense in a very simple way about infant baptism the other day… Hope I can paraphrase the idea properly here

Baptism, giving us the indelible mark of Christ on our souls, adopts us into the family of God in a very real way, therefore, it gives us our “Last Name” if you will. Does a child need to know everything about his new family in order to be adopted? No, once that child is adopted into the new family, the child learns what it is to be a part of that family gradually. Now, can adopted children run away from their parents? Sure can.

 

[Zenas]

answer to first question, because all the elect are born with a green stripe on their back and only Calvinist have a green stripe
drywall

OK, I’ll buy that, considering you probably never were asked that question before.

It is not calvinism that we spread with evangelical fervor but the gospel because we do not know who has the green stripe on their back and who does not

Sorry if I wasn’t very clear on this. I wasn’t talking about evangelizing the unsaved, but the saved, attempting to bring Arminians and other non-Cals into their camp. Calvinism is rampant in Southern Baptist circles and growing rapidly in their influence.