The Beatific Vision, God the bridegroom, and Women

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Some background to start with. I am a practicing Catholic attending a Catholic High School currently. I am interested in the faith and always have been since I was a little boy. I tend to think a lot though and this leads me to ponder some difficult philosophical and theological questions. This is one of them.
I have 3 related topics, coming from a strange conundrum I was having. I was wondering if anyone can help me to understand/give me an answer to this. I’ll do my best to put it into words:
  1. The Beatific Vision sounds strange to me for a few reasons. The first being that you see the presence of God. I don’t want to seem nonchalant because seeing God face to face as he is would be amazing, but how is that the greatest thing ever? Just staring at God for eternity? Wouldn’t that be boring? I must be misunderstanding this.
  2. The idea of God being a lover kind of freaks me out. Here’s a quote from an article on Catholic Answers for some context:
    **The idea startles: God as our erotic lover… In the New Testament as well, Jesus the bridegroom takes the Church as his immaculate bride (Mark 2:19-20, Eph. 5:25-27). Ancient Christian authors, such as Pseudo-Dionysius, understood “God is love” not just as “God is agape” but also as “God is eros.” Mystics, like St. Teresa of Avila, experience a mystical union with God described in language reminiscent of the union of man and wife in the act of marriage. The poet John Donne put it this way:
    **Batter my heart, three-personed God . . . **
    **Take me to you, imprison me, for I, **
    **Except you enthrall me, never shall be free, **
    Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.
    This is from God of Desire by Christopher Kaczor. Here’s the link to the article: https: //www. catholic. com /magazine/print-edition/god-of-desire
Anyways, am I the only one who finds that kind of weird and unsettling? A bit disturbing even? It’s hard to imagine God being a lover romantically, at least as a guy, because… well, God is described as a masculine figure. I know that technically God has no gender because he’s spirit, but it still kind of creeps me out.
  1. Perhaps this is the most difficult one to answer. Now as a heterosexual guy in his teenage years, I have to tell you - I like girls… a lot. I know it’s crazy! Unthinkable! Anyways, I find it difficult to imagine being happy without a woman. I feel… “incomplete”. So taking this one step further, I have difficulty accepting that there’s no marriage in heaven.
 
To put this altogether, I would say that I find it difficult to romantically love something I cannot see and that isn’t a woman. I find it difficult to believe that I can find true happiness in something other than a woman. And I feel a bit sad that God would dissolve someone’s marriage because he desires them to love him more than their spouse.
I also feel at some times that God is more like a dictator, that he creates people and then wants everyone to follow his will instead of our own, almost like some kind of “hive-mind”, for example, when you see the beatific vision, you will no longer sin. Almost as if God takes away our free will and we become absorbed into him. I never like the idea of everyone becoming “one in Christ”. It sounded to much like a sci-fi “hive mind” to me. I know that sounds ridiculous and I think that’s probably just the devil, but it does frighten me at times. (The devil is good at his job I guess)
Any help anyone? I know this is a lot and very detailed, but for some reason these questions will occasionally pop-up in my mind and bother me. I intend to talk to my Theology teacher (he’s an awesome guy) but I’d like to get a second opinion(or several!). Thanks. - NKaloms
 
Though we call it the Beatific Vision, I don’t think Heaven is meant to be just staring. Think “knowing and experiencing” God.

As for your future marriage, remember that that relationship here on earth is just “practice” for the kinds of connections we will have in Heaven. You won’t lose your wife – you’ll know her better and connect with her more perfectly than you ever have. You’ll have that connection with everyone else and with God, too. That’s what the “God as lover/bridegroom” imagery is all about – everything that marriage and sexual union are for us here is just a taste of what we can expect after.

The fact that saints don’t sin isn’t because their free will is taken away or they are incorporated into a hive mind. God loves you, and made you to exist with Him forever. He doesn’t want to absorb you or erase your differences. He wants to complete everything that is unfinished or unfulfilled about you and then exist with perfect you and perfect everyone else forever: Saints don’t sin because they see that God is everything they could ever want and that doing what He does not will is damaging and stupid.
 
NKaloms said:
Just staring at God for eternity? Wouldn’t that be boring? I must be misunderstanding this.
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I doubt you will be just sitting and staring (the angels, who see God frequently, seem pretty busy) but even if you were just staring you would not be bored. We don’t have the capacity to understand the experience of the Beatific Vision with our human minds, except for some really great saints with awesome spirituality, and they never found God boring. The opposite actually.

Also, there is no need to think of God as a lover if that freaks you out. Again, you’re not on the spiritual level to deal with this, you may come from a very different culture than the authors you are citing, John Donne was a poet not a saint, and there were many male saints who appreciated God through different metaphors. Find some saints you’re comfortable with and follow their examples.

Finally, regarding marriage, many of us who are actually married cannot imagine being without our spouses and hope to be together in heaven, but we will not need to be in the earthly “forsaking all others” kind of marital relationship, nor will we be needing to have sex. We will be able to love everyone in heaven as brothers and sisters in Christ, we will all be united in love of God. That doesn’t mean you still might not have a close relationship there with spouse, parents etc but it will not be like on earth.
 
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Remember that eternity is outside of time. It’s more like an eternal “now” than it is a “first this, then this, then that.”

I remember when I my first son was born. I was like, “Huh. So. You’re living with us for the next 18 years, h’m? Well. I hope we don’t bore you too much, little guy.” 🙂 I loved him, but it was a mental thing. Then, about two or three days after he was born, I was sitting there holding him one night, and there was this amazing wave of love that washed over me. It was like a tangible, physical wave of love— I’d never felt anything like it for my husband, or for my children, or for my parents, or for my siblings, or for anybody, before or since. It lasted maybe a minute or two, and then it was gone. And I was left thinking— if what I experienced was anything like a fraction of the Love of God, Heaven must be an amazing place.

I’d say worry less about how other people try to describe the indescribable, and focus on how you experience the indescribable. 🙂 If, for some reason, Heaven fails to meet or exceed your expectations, you can always leave it a critical review on Yelp or someplace to give the rest of us a fair warning. 😉
 
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I have to admit, sometimes Catholic writers get carried away, and it’s unsettling to me, too. Sometimes they express ideas that push the comfort zone. Maybe it’s because they’re trying to shift human desires toward spiritual desires. Almost like the power and energy of natural biological sexual urges can be redirected toward love for God. ( This is maybe possible for some people to do, but it’s an unrealistic and unfair expectation for all of us to do–frankly, it ain’t workin’ for me.)

Yeah, sometimes it teeters on the edge of good taste, seems to me.
 
I seem to recall reading somewhere that St Margaret Mary had trouble getting her visions and the Sacred Heart devotion established partly because some felt she was writing too romantically or even erotically about Jesus.
 
NKaloms said:
  1. The Beatific Vision sounds strange to me for a few reasons. The first being that you see the presence of God. I don’t want to seem nonchalant because seeing God face to face as he is would be amazing, but how is that the greatest thing ever? Just staring at God for eternity? Wouldn’t that be boring? I must be misunderstanding this.
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Well, Scripture says that the angels always see the face of God. Yet, they don’t seem to be just sitting around staring.

So, I think the Beatific Vision means that we will be enjoying the sight of God wherever we go. Kind of like driving on Route 1 in California. No matter where you go, you’ll be able to enjoy God’s presence.
  1. The idea of God being a lover kind of freaks me out. Here’s a quote from an article on Catholic Answers for some context:
    **The idea startles: God as our erotic lover…
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I think that’s just the closest experience we have to compare to the feeling of God’s love for us. St. John of the Cross calls them God’s love darts. Non-Catholics call it a burning in the breast. They can be very intense and feel somewhat like…before I say it, I’ll have you remember what St. Paul said…to the pure, all is pure (Titus 1:15). The feelings of love that God grants us, can feel like an orgasm.
Anyways, am I the only one who finds that kind of weird and unsettling?..
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I’m sure you’re not. Since I’ve been married to the same woman for 33 years, I find it beautiful.
  1. Perhaps this is the most difficult one to answer. Now as a heterosexual guy in his teenage years, I have to tell you - I like girls… a lot. I know it’s crazy! Unthinkable! Anyways, I find it difficult to imagine being happy without a woman. I feel… “incomplete”. So taking this one step further, I have difficulty accepting that there’s no marriage in heaven.
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Then you’d better get married on earth. Remember, God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16). So what makes you think He’ll make you divorce your wife in heaven?

I hope that helps.
 
NKaloms said:
Some background to start with. I am a practicing Catholic attending a Catholic High School currently. I am interested in the faith and always have been since I was a little boy. I tend to think a lot though and this leads me to ponder some difficult philosophical and theological questions
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What I think is that you would benefit from a vast many more years of philosophical and theological study…study well above and beyond the level of high school. You would have, or at least should have, a very different perspective.
 
NKaloms said:
  1. The Beatific Vision sounds strange to me for a few reasons. The first being that you see the presence of God. I don’t want to seem nonchalant because seeing God face to face as he is would be amazing, but how is that the greatest thing ever? Just staring at God for eternity? Wouldn’t that be boring? I must be misunderstanding this.
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This is not at all easy to understand. For myself, I had to, not until my 30’s, come to begin to learn the value of love-and what it’s really all about, and how it, alone, gives worth [value, meaning, reason, purpose] to all things, as St Teresa of Avila put it. To “see God face to face” is an anthropomorphism; God cannot be seen as we see each other; we “see” Him intellectually, strictly a gift of knowing Him, directly, fully, in His essence. It’s to be in His immediate presence. This experience cannot be explained because we cannot relate to it in this life, unless He grants a “glimpse” of it, for His purposes as He’s done at times according to the testimony of such people as St Teresa and others.

But consider that we have a “knowingness”, a knowledge, of a person that, although gained by relating to them via our senses, nonetheless remains or lingers with us even after they’re gone: that sense of who they are, their character. With an “intellectual vision” as it’s called, that same knowledge is imparted but without the use of the senses; we simply know because we’ve been shown. This, again, is an ineffable experience but maybe you get the idea. In the case of God, His character is so profound and beautiful and powerful and good and trustworthy and perfect-God is love-that His “mere” presence simply produces full and complete and uncompromised happiness, well-being, peace, joy-elation. Can’t be explained. That presence-that love-is so thick it’s virtually palpable; it’s knowable. And there’s nothing else you want; all thirst is quenched, all desire satiated. Without that we don’t even know how truly important or real love is-and how we’re designed to desire and love it , to love God.

This life is a school of sorts intended to teach us in the end just how valueless the values of this world really are, those created things we all covet, compared to the one thing that brings total satisfaction. We’re here to learn why and how to give up our pride-that disposition we all have too much of that opposes God and love by its nature. This can’t be forced, and yet this life is tailored to help us arrive, with the aid of grace, at that very point. As we come to know God, we unavoidably come to love Him; to know Him is to love Him. As this happens the Greatest Commandments, the true definition or description of man’s justice, begins to be fulfilled in us.
 
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Matthew 22:30

New International Version
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

New Living Translation
For when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect they will be like the angels in heaven.

English Standard Version
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Berean Study Bible
In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.

John 14:2

New International Version
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

New Living Translation
There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?

English Standard Version
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

Berean Study Bible
In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

John 14:3

New International Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

New Living Translation
When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am.

English Standard Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Berean Study Bible
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.
 
I think this almost poses a problem to me. Why would I love everyone equally? I don’t know 99% of the people on earth, how could I possibly want to love them the same amount as my family?
 
You’ll get to know and love many people in heaven. You’re going to be there for eternity, that’s a lot of time to be getting to know everyone. I’m quite sure our families will continue to be special to us however. You have to trust God that you will have such a capacity for love and emotion that everybody will be your brother or sister there. I don’t know if you’ve ever been at some big family gathering where the room was just full of love and you even loved your annoying Uncle Fred for the amount of time you were there (perhaps fueled by drinking a bottle of wine), well it will be like that only better.

If you asked a lot of us the main reason why we wanted to go to Heaven, well the correct answer I guess is to be happy with God, but what a lot of us are really thinking is “to see my mom or dad or brother or best friend or spouse again, hopefully they are there”.

In any event - you have two choices, Heaven or Hell. You can go to Heaven and see God and your family and be surrounded by love. Or you can go to Hell and be miserable, alone and in pain for eternity. Pretty easy choice eh?
 
It’s not that God would divorce us in heaven, it’s that there’s no marriage in heaven.
 
NKaloms said:
It’s not that God would divorce us in heaven, it’s that there’s no marriage in heaven.
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No one will be given in marriage. But since you will retain your memory, you will recognize and love those whom you loved on earth. That includes your spouse.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
 
That sounds amazing! And congratulations on the birth of your son (however long that was ago!). I guess I just find that a bit unsettling because I can’t imagine loving a baby more than my future spouse or my immediate family now. Perhaps it’s because I’m only a guy and cannot begin to even imagine what the relationship between a woman and her child is.
 
But that’s just it. It was an external love, not something that I came up with inside myself. 🙂 It had nothing to do with my feelings at all. It was more like visiting the ocean than it was like sitting in a room. 🙂

A friend of mine asked, “So! What’s the most surprising thing about being a new mom?” And I told her about the experience. And she’s all, “Yeah, aren’t new mom hormones interesting!” So I kind of figured it was something normal that happened all the time. I was really looking forward to feeling it again for my second, but I didn’t get that— instead, I got smacked with this really weird interconnectedness-of-creation-within-time feeling, which was this weird feeling of unity with the past/present/future. And it feels very, very weird to feel that kind of bond not only with the people around you, but with things like the cows in the fields and whatever else. 😛 And again, that sense wasn’t something that really stayed-- it was just a minute or two-- but it was enough of a glimpse of something bigger that just made you go, “Ahhhh,” and look forward to being able to experience the whole thing properly. 🙂
 
I’m glad you had such a great experience, but being connected with all the things around you, like cows? That sounds like some kind of “New Age” weirdness to me.
 
I always wondered why there isn’t a third choice, perhaps an eternal earth you know?
 
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