The bible and homosexuals

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Jennifer_J

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I’ve heard recently an argument that while the Bible does say homosexual acts are wrong ( for example the purity laws in Leviticus), these laws are now morally neutral because no one is put to death for insulting parents and divorce is common place. MPR (that’s Minnesota Public Radio–you know, liberal radio) aired a program on Speaking of Faith on homosexual marriage and this was brought up speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2004/05/13_gaymarriage/
Of course one of her guests also said that the over riding theme of the Bible and Christianity was inclusive and supportive of homosexuality—what???

Anyway, what is the argument and explaination to support the old testament teaching? Thanks
Jennifer
 
Ask them back:

“Is the church execute homosexual?”

NO, she doesn’t!! She merely says that it’s a sin. The Church also doesn’t execute teenager who rebel against their parent, altough she considers such disobedience a sin.
 
Jennifer J:
I’ve heard recently an argument that while the Bible does say homosexual acts are wrong ( for example the purity laws in Leviticus), these laws are now morally neutral because no one is put to death for insulting parents and divorce is common place. MPR (that’s Minnesota Public Radio–you know, liberal radio) aired a program on Speaking of Faith on homosexual marriage and this was brought up speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2004/05/13_gaymarriage/
Of course one of her guests also said that the over riding theme of the Bible and Christianity was inclusive and supportive of homosexuality—what???

Anyway, what is the argument and explaination to support the old testament teaching? Thanks
Jennifer
Since on any given Sunday you can see good Christians eating bacon, while wearing a suit composed of two different fibers, and simultaneously talking about how the many different plants in his garden are dong, you cannot really use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality.
 
Jennifer J:
I’ve heard recently an argument that while the Bible does say homosexual acts are wrong ( for example the purity laws in Leviticus), these laws are now morally neutral because no one is put to death for insulting parents and divorce is common place. MPR (that’s Minnesota Public Radio–you know, liberal radio) aired a program on Speaking of Faith on homosexual marriage and this was brought up speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2004/05/13_gaymarriage/
Of course one of her guests also said that the over riding theme of the Bible and Christianity was inclusive and supportive of homosexuality—what???

Anyway, what is the argument and explaination to support the old testament teaching? Thanks
Jennifer
As Catholics we rely on the Holy Spirit through the Teaching Magisterium of the Church to interpret Scripture for us – we don’t rely on fallible humans. Here is the Church’s position on homosexuality and the Bible, direct from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**"CCC 2357 **Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. **Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. **
 
Jennifer J:
I’ve heard recently an argument that while the Bible does say homosexual acts are wrong ( for example the purity laws in Leviticus…
Jennifer
Lev 18:22 – You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

1 Cor 6:9-10 – Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 1:26-27 – For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

1 Tim 1:10 – immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

2 Th 2:12 – so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Interpretation is not our’s to make on our own, but one would have to be blind not to see the validity of the Church’s position on homosexuality, and the sin of engaging in homosexual sex acts.
 
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Shibboleth:
Since on any given Sunday you can see good Christians eating bacon, while wearing a suit composed of two different fibers, and simultaneously talking about how the many different plants in his garden are dong, you cannot really use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality.
Wrong. Eating bacon, while wearing a suit composed of two different fibers, and simultaneously talking about how the many different plants are doing in one’s garden in no way contravenes natural law.

Homosexuality does. Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered. Eating a rack of pork spareribs is not.
 
Leviticus is a combination of moral absolutes and legally binding customs.The moral absolutes have not changed.
“Leviticus is not just a formal set of laws, it provides moral laws which contain teachings about God and about man, and about man’s relationship with God.”(p418 Navarre Bible)… in all these rules, over and over there is a religious message which is pernnial and enduring.
"The best way to read Leviticus is in the light of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross…Many passages in the NT, particularly the Letter to the Hebrewsa use Leviticus as a reference point (Heb 8:1-10:18)…Among the features of Christ the priest which clearly comes across from this passage in Hebrews are purity and holiness-qualities to which Leviticus gives such importance and never loses their validity…Indeed, it is in the NT that the need for purity comes into its own: the cleanness one needs to have to approach God is not confined as in Leviticus, to a ritual purity; it is something that comes from inside man, inside his heart, for’from out of the heart comes evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander’(Mat 15:1`9)…
Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God(Mat 5:8)
(p419Navarre Bible)
 
Thanks for the help, it’s much clearer to me now!
Jennifer
 
Jennifer J:
these laws are now morally neutral because no one is put to death for insulting parents and divorce is common place.
Neither is someone put to death for rape, so let’s do that as well. Nobody is put to death for stealing or robbing, so tell them to hand over their money right away, with no fast moves 🙂
Of course one of her guests also said that the over riding theme of the Bible and Christianity was inclusive and supportive of homosexuality—what???
According to the “infallible interpretation of the Bible by her mirror” 🙂

More Scripture verses to back up the traditional view:
scripturecatholic.com/homosexuality.html
 
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cmom:
Leviticus is a combination of moral absolutes and legally binding customs.
That’s right, and the problem is that many cannot tell the difference (or purposly do not tell the difference) between the two of them.

The legally binding customs were of the Mosaic Ceremonial Law which Jesus Christ fulfilled.

The moral law is still binding on us.
 
Intrinsically disordered? Where does the Bible mention that? and what does that mean?
 
If people are gay and don’t want to give up their practices, fine. They should be loved just the same . . . but they’re only kidding themselves if they want to make the Bible say that homosexuality is okay. The passage from Romans should be enough to demonstrate that. People always focus on the Old Testament to make a smokescreen.
 
The phrase “intrinsically disordered” means that the practice or condition being described is by its very nature opposed to the natural law planted into the human heart by God. I believe it’s somewhere in the old testament that a man lying with another man is called an abomination? And, of course, as mentioned above, Romans calls homosexual passions “unnatural.”

I hate to use the cliche “love the sinner, not the sin,” but that, in this case, is the best way to think. One of my best friends is gay, but he knows how I feel about his behavior. The problem is that Christians often err on the side of loving people, and they think that by sweeping their sin under a rug and treating it like it’s really okay they’re really loving them.

In my home state of Alabama a legislator issued a challenge to anyone who can show him a verse in the Bible that says that marriage is between a man and a woman. There is no one verse that says that very thing in the bible, but anyone with a little common sense can read the Bible and see that it condemns homosexual practices and therefore does not approve same sex marriage. He’s just looking for a loophole. This, to me, is the end-result of fundamentalism - if the Bible does not explicitly state it, then it is not to be believed.
 
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Shibboleth:
Since on any given Sunday you can see good Christians eating bacon, while wearing a suit composed of two different fibers, and simultaneously talking about how the many different plants in his garden are dong, you cannot really use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality.
I fail to see the metaphors or anologies in your post. Could you elaborate?

Thanks

Andy
 
INtrinsically disordered? Natural? Have we forgotten Genesis, that God created everything (and everyone) and that it is all good? Therefore, God created people who have gay feelings (the Catechism recognizes this) and they are good–and natural. The intrinsically disordered argument does not seem to be derived from the Bible.
 
People are all created with the capacity for goodness, but the things people do can be very bad. Homosexuality is not in any way “good.” It is a deviation from natural law that closes the sexual faculties to life. A homosexual person can certainly be good, but the act (if acted upon) is sinful. Just as a murderer can be a good person, the sinful act is the murder.
 
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SeeksTruth:
INtrinsically disordered? Natural? Have we forgotten Genesis, that God created everything (and everyone) and that it is all good? Therefore, God created people who have gay feelings (the Catechism recognizes this) and they are good–and natural. The intrinsically disordered argument does not seem to be derived from the Bible.
All sin is intrinsically disordered. That’s what makes it sin (it’s against God’s order). Because of original sin, people have feelings that lead to all sorts of intrinsically disordered behavior: fornication (sex outside marriage), masturbation, impure thoughts, stealing, murdering, lying, etc, etc. All these things are sins and intrinsically disordered. People who commit these sins have feelings that lead them to do it. That doesn’t make it ok. They always make the choice to commit the sin. Homosexual acts (sodomy) are a sin. Someone attracted to the same sex does not spasmadically engage in sodomy. While feelings may not be a choice, to act on them is.
 
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SeeksTruth:
INtrinsically disordered? Natural? Have we forgotten Genesis, that God created everything (and everyone) and that it is all good? Therefore, God created people who have gay feelings (the Catechism recognizes this) and they are good–and natural. The intrinsically disordered argument does not seem to be derived from the Bible.
Well, how about this:

Rom 1:26-27 – For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

???

“unnatural” = “intrinsically disordered” = “unnatural”

God created everything, but that doesn’t make the improper use of things not sinful. If you conclude that because God made homosexuals that homosexuality is good, then it follows that cancer, schizophrenia, genital warts, the flu virus, the AIDS virus, etc., are good.

If you’re going to argue that homosexuality is morally acceptable, fine, then argue it until you’re blue in the face, but don’t ignore what the bible says while saying that you’re not and make the catechism say something that it doesn’t. If my memory serves me correctly, the exact phrase that the catechism uses to describe homosexual acts is “intrinsically disordered.”
 
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SeeksTruth:
INtrinsically disordered? Natural? Have we forgotten Genesis, that God created everything (and everyone) and that it is all good?
Have we forgotten the rest of the Bible after Genesis 1?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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