The bible and reconciliation

[flower_lady]

In the bible it is a command that we confess our sins to a priest. In the bible God says to his apostles, "Whose sins you shall remit shall be remitted and whose sins you shall retain shall be retained. It is understood that they are guided by the Holy Spirit in the confessional booth. I do believe that we must go to a priest in order to obtain absolution for our sins. My question is that if other denominations don’t do this, how can they get into Heaven? They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

 

[flower_lady]

In the bible it is a command that we confess our sins to a priest. In the bible God says to his apostles, "Whose sins you shall remit shall be remitted and whose sins you shall retain shall be retained. It is understood that they(the priest) are guided by the Holy Spirit in the confessional booth. I do believe that we must go to a priest in order to obtain absolution for our sins. My question is that if other denominations don’t do this, how can they possibly get into Heaven? They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

 

[Della]

In the bible it is a command that we confess our sins to a priest. In the bible God says to his apostles, "Whose sins you shall remit shall be remitted and whose sins you shall retain shall be retained. It is understood that they are guided by the Holy Spirit in the confessional booth. I do believe that we must go to a priest in order to obtain absolution for our sins. My question is that if other denominations don’t do this, how can they get into Heaven? They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

When people don’t know that they are to do something they are not culpable for it. But once we do know that we should go to confession to confess our mortal sins then we are obligated to do so. Jesus said, “To whom much is given much is required.”

This does not mean that they will escape answering to God for their sins. It only means that they may not be held as accountable as someone who knows the difference between mortal and venial sins but didn’t go to confession as God wants us to.

 

[PJM]

=flower lady;11483920]In the bible it is a command that we confess our sins to a priest. In the bible God says to his apostles, "Whose sins you shall remit shall be remitted and whose sins you shall retain shall be retained. It is understood that they are guided by the Holy Spirit in the confessional booth. I do believe that we must go to a priest in order to obtain absolution for our sins. My question is that if other denominations don’t do this, how can they get into Heaven? They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

Your quoting John 20:19-23 above for those who may wish to know

Also check out 1 John 1:8-10 &
1 John 5: 16-17

While this was indeed given Power and authority directly to the Apostles; its critically important to USE THE ENTIRE BIBLE…

In doing so; READ very carefully:

Mt. 10: 1-8 taking not that Christ tell s the Apostles that their MANDATE is cf. ONLY to the Jewish people.

THEN Look at Mark 16:14-15 & Mt. 28:16-20 and NOTE that Christ just before ascending back to the Father CHANGED the mandate to the "ENTIRE WORLD"

IN DOING THIS; IT IS CHRIST HIMSELF WHO INSTITUTES AND REQUIRES SUCCESSION IN ORDER THAT HIS NEW EXPANDED MANDATE BE A POSSIBILITY.

Now, go back and read very carefully Mt. 16:15-19, making note that the very [AND ONLY] keys to heavens access are given to Peter [and through Peter] to his Successors.

Finally read carefully:
John 17:18 & John 20:21 where Jesus grants HIS VERY OWN Powers and Authority to His Apostles and NOW by absolute necessity; to also Peters Successors.

Note that IF Christ dis not intend for His New:
One TRUE God
W/ One True Faith
Through One True Church

He would have become incarnate for only a few souls; and NOT Redeemer of ALL humanity and Savior to those that seek Salvation HIS WAY, with His One Faith and Through HIS One Church.

Eph. 4:1-8 "I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called,** With all humility and mildness,** with patience, supporting one another in charity. ** Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace**. [4] One body and one Spirit;[MEANS ONLY ONE CHURCH] as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, [means just taht: poNLY one set of faith beliefs] one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ. explains why our protestant brethren don’t accept or understand this

While WE CAN"T judge, it certainly seems biblically correct, that SINS will ONLY be forgiven in the precise manner God Himself mandates and personally instituted:shrug: So outside of the CC and Sacramental Confession; it seems extremely unlikely that sins will be forgiven through the various and sundry man-made innovations and inventions.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[ClearWater]

In the bible it is a command that we confess our sins to a priest. In the bible God says to his apostles, "Whose sins you shall remit shall be remitted and whose sins you shall retain shall be retained. It is understood that they are guided by the Holy Spirit in the confessional booth. I do believe that we must go to a priest in order to obtain absolution for our sins. My question is that if other denominations don’t do this, how can they get into Heaven? They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

Well, my sister is a Protestant, and if the topic of confession comes up, she will say that she doesn’t believe it’s necessary to go to a priest, to go to God, directly, that confession is a “man made” invention.

She seems to see it more or less the reverse of how I see it, near as I can tell.

 

[po18guy]

They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

You have been granted the grace of understanding. We can only pray that all would receive that grace.

 

[esieffe]

When people don’t know that they are to do something they are not culpable for it. But once we do know that we should go to confession to confess our mortal sins then we are obligated to do so. .

I think the interesting aspect to this question is that most of those outside the CC know that we consider it a mortal sin not to confess our sins… but at the same time, at least the Episcopalians have an absolution after communion prayer and the prayer of humble access which is found in their Book of Common Prayer:

We do not presume to come to this thy Table (O merciful Lord) trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the Flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his Blood, in these holy Mysteries, that we may continually dwell in him, and he in us, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood. Amen.

 

[po18guy]

Well, my sister is a Protestant, and if the topic of confession comes up, she will say that she doesn’t believe it’s necessary to go to a priest, to go to God, directly, that confession is a “man made” invention.

She seems to see it more or less the reverse of how I see it, near as I can tell.

This is the danger of rebelling, or of following those who have rebelled. The numerous references in scripture alone are routinely disregarded in favor of the much more ego-appealing, silent, and non-judgmental, non-correctional “direct confession.” Being reconciled with God has now devolved into a simple notification of God that one has sinned - as if God does not already know that! He does not seek that, but rather, that we be reconciled to Him. Where is the penance?

So many ignore Paul’s ministry of reconciliation and his exhortation to Christians to be reconciled with God; that Paul forgave sins in the person of Christ, with the authority of Christ, and as an ambassador of Christ. As well, many completely ignore the fact that Jesus told each and every sinner that their sins were forgiven - there was no doubt. No “direct confessor” has ever heard Jesus’ words of absolution, yet they assume that their sins are automatically forgiven. What if they are not? Problem.

2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

It is arrogance that assumes a sin to be forgiven simply because we take a few seconds of our precious time to tell God what He already knows. As well, that is the sin of presumption. I see this as the genesis of today’s loss of the sense of sin. It’s OK to assume that God forgives. Abortion? Contraception? Divorce and remarriage? All are A-OK! No need to confess these at all!

 

[po18guy]

I think the interesting aspect to this question is that most of those outside the CC know that we consider it a mortal sin not to confess our sins… but at the same time, at least the Episcopalians have an absolution after communion prayer and the prayer of humble access which is found in their Book of Common Prayer:

We do not presume to come to this thy Table (O merciful Lord) trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the Flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his Blood, in these holy Mysteries, that we may continually dwell in him, and he in us, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood. Amen.

As beautiful and humble as the words are, I see no mention at all of repentance in that prayer. The danger here is assuming that God is only mercy and has no justice within Him.

 

[klm120861]

You have been granted the grace of understanding. We can only pray that all would receive that grace.

This is exactly the difference between the Protestant understanding of how one has their sins forgiven and the Catholic understanding of absolution. Back in Luther’s day, he had no excuse, and I would say the majority of those choosing Protestantism had no excuse either. There were some that had no real clue either way due to lack of decent religious education. Which is a point some could argue for lapsed Catholics who are now Protestant. The majority have had very poor catechesis and what they did have ended in Junior High

For Protestants, those of us who were raised Protestant, know no different. And the more you study your particular denomination, the deeper entrenched that knowledge becomes. In other words, you drink the Kool-Aid, and you drink a lot of it.

It takes the grace of God to understand and accept that what you have been taught all your life as true really isn’t true at all.
Kris

 

[po18guy]

This is exactly the difference between the Protestant understanding of how one has their sins forgiven and the Catholic understanding of absolution. Back in Luther’s day, he had no excuse, and I would say the majority of those choosing Protestantism had no excuse either. There were some that had no real clue either way due to lack of decent religious education. Which is a point some could argue for lapsed Catholics who are now Protestant. The majority have had very poor catechesis and what they did have ended in Junior High

For Protestants, those of us who were raised Protestant, know no different. And the more you study your particular denomination, the deeper entrenched that knowledge becomes. In other words, you drink the Kool-Aid, and you drink a lot of it.

It takes the grace of God to understand and accept that what you have been taught all your life as true really isn’t true at all.
Kris

I was thinking of posting the disregarded verses that refer to repentance/confession/reconciliation, but that might have to wait until I feel a bit better. Revisionist theology has even tinted/tainted/shaded the bible translations that are associated.

Matthew 18:18
Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven.

Matthew 18:18
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
18 I assure you: Whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

And others. Words have meaning. These words strip the Apostles of their authority to bind and loose and make them little more than what protestant pastors are today, simply reporting on what God has already done.

 

[thistle]

In the bible it is a command that we confess our sins to a priest. In the bible God says to his apostles, "Whose sins you shall remit shall be remitted and whose sins you shall retain shall be retained. It is understood that they are guided by the Holy Spirit in the confessional booth. I do believe that we must go to a priest in order to obtain absolution for our sins. My question is that if other denominations don’t do this, how can they get into Heaven? They are disobeying God’s command. Also, the above is in their bibles, why do you imagine they ignore it? It is pretty clear to me.

That’s a good question because I do not believe they are captured under invincible ignorance. They have ample opportunity in this day and age to look closely into the Catholic faith. If they choose not to do so or do so then reject the Church they have no excuses.

 

[PJM]

=ClearWater;11484301]Well, my sister is a Protestant, and if the topic of confession comes up, she will say that she doesn’t believe it’s necessary to go to a priest, to go to God, directly, that confession is a “man made” invention.

She seems to see it more or less the reverse of how I see it, near as I can tell.

IF she professes to be a “Christian”; READ post #4 for how to explaIin it

 

[Della]

That’s a good question because I do not believe they are captured under invincible ignorance. They have ample opportunity in this day and age to look closely into the Catholic faith. If they choose not to do so or do so then reject the Church they have no excuses.

The problem with this line of thinking is that they would no more consider looking at Catholic teachings than Hindu teachings. When a person has been brought up to believe that he doesn’t need a priest to confess, why would he think he needs to correct his thinking?

The ironic thing is that those who make this claim have to mention confession to a priest in order to justify not going to one. One would think that would make them stop to consider why they have to make the denial if it’s not necessary and they don’t believe it. But, they are so engrained with the idea that the Catholic Church is, at the least, wrong and at the worst–well you can imagine the worst.–that they won’t read anything written by a Catholic let alone the CCC.

 

[PJM]

=Della;11486990]The problem with this line of thinking is that they would no more consider looking at Catholic teachings than Hindu teachings. When a person has been brought up to believe that he doesn’t need a priest to confess, why would he think he needs to correct his thinking?

The ironic thing is that those who make this claim have to mention confession to a priest in order to justify not going to one. One would think that would make them stop to consider why they have to make the denial if it’s not necessary and they don’t believe it. But, they are so engrained with the idea that the Catholic Church is, at the least, wrong and at the worst–well you can imagine the worst.–that they won’t read anything written by a Catholic let alone the CCC.

WOW, we agree

What seems often not to be clearly understood is the Divine NATURE of 'True Faith"

“true Faith” like our God is a singular reality. It also belongs to GOD-alone to grant it to whomever it pleases HIM to do so.

It is the failure by so many who are into “my faith”; not realizing that it IS NOT God’s Faith. Grace; the path to FAITH is God’s domain. Even when offered it can be rejected, or not fully or correctly applied.

Without TRUE Faith; its essential FRUITS of the Holy Spirit are simply withheld and not shared. Without TRUE Faith one cannot rightly understand the bibles actual- teachings; or accept the reality of:

One God
can only have ONE set of Faith beliefs
And founded and guides and protects only One Church:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
Patrick