The Bible Does Not Say We Have An Immortal Soul

[CatholicSoxFan]

I find it funny how some atheists claim that they know our own religion better than we do. It’s a riot.

Yeah, the people who say that usually don’t.

 

[Mumbles140]

LOL, a Christian accusing an Atheist of ‘cherry picking’! Har-har!

Listen, could’ve copy&pasted whole pages of the information available, or provided links. That was not my goal. Merely wished to point out that you believe you have an immortal soul - because of what some old dude decided 400 years after Christ walked the earth. Nothing in your Bible claims otherwise.

As a time reference, 400 years ago, was about the time Galiao first pointed his telescope to the stars.

Mad, people have provided you with plenty of references, whether descriptions of biblical events or exact quotes from the Bible describing the immortal and eternal nature of the soul. Whether you choose to accept them is of no concern to the rest of us, but please do not tell us what our Bible does and does not claim. And if you believe it truly comes down to a matter of translation, I will accept the almost 2,000 years of the Magisterium and authority of the Church over unreferenced, uncited, unknown commenters from a video on the Internet.

And to counter your rather irrelevant reference regarding 400 years, please describe to me the major differences in technology and quality of life between say 800-1200 AD. Or how about any stretch of 400 years during the early formation of Earth? Maybe even 400 years under Egyptian rule. I imagine those ranges of 400 years do not change as drastically as the most recent 400.

 

[Mumbles140]

So, show me where, in your Bible, I am wrong. That way, perhaps, we can both learn something new. Up for the challenge? Care to actually learn?

Thought not.

I think the very fact that people have responded to your thread means they are willing to accept. Please, either read the references already posted, or give people the ability to answer your challenges before dismissing them as unwilling to respond to your ‘challenge.’

 

[St_Redemption]

So, show me where, in your Bible, I am wrong. That way, perhaps, we can both learn something new. Up for the challenge? Care to actually learn?

Thought not.

What is with your attitude? I think you need to cool down.

Do you know how to read? I posted 6 verses on the first page of this thread all speaking about immortality.

 

[St_Redemption]

Do you always speak to others in a condescending manner? Or just on the internet?
You speak about “better minds.” If having a “better mind” means that one is ignorant enough to make absurd claims about a book that clearly demonstratably false, then Ill take my chances not being somebody with a “a better mind.”

As somebody else had pointed out, it is beyond absurd to state that the Bible does not claim that we have an immortal soul and then reply in disdainful patronizing manner because somebody uses the Bible to prove you wrong.

Here are a few. I can find a dozen more for you if you’d like.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 316
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Romans 26-8
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Mathew 25:4
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[MadNotAngry]

Would you be able to provide me with a link to this debate please?

Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth existed at all?

Actually before you answer those, May I ask why you called yourself ‘MadNotAngry’?

Thank you for reading
Josh

Hi Josh.

Call myself Mad, because it’s true, but need to clarify, I am not angry.

The debate was live, at Park Church (first pastor: Thomas Beecher 1840’s) in Elmira, NY a few weekends ago. T’was grand.

Believe in Jesus? Well, have a Bible with words of Christ in red, and when reading just the red text, Jesus appears quite amazingly insightful and more than a little magical. But then, also realize, not one word was written from anyone who actually laid eyes on the man, or heard his voice.

So what’s to believe?

 

[ServantPD]

LOL, a Christian accusing an Atheist of ‘cherry picking’! Har-har!

Says the lad who just ignored the horde of unambiguous references from the Bible that clearly portray the existence of immortal souls, which came from both Testaments, and some of the earliest Christian writings. You can’t get any more reliable than that to refute your claim, and every Catholic from here in CA knows that St. Augustine wouldn’t make a unfounded claim. He was a bishop, and he more than surely knew the Bible better than you…

Listen, could’ve copy&pasted whole pages of the information available, or provided links. That was not my goal. Merely wished to point out that you believe you have an immortal soul - because of what some old dude decided 400 years after Christ walked the earth. Nothing in your Bible claims otherwise.

Sorry my burst your bubble buddy, but our Nicene Creed from 325 AD and the Apostles’ Creed clearly shows a belief in immortality before Augustine came to our world…

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

And this isn’t cherry-picking - the profession of this is required for someone conversion and entrance to the Church, and for all Catholics to profess on Sundays. This is the definition of a “Christian” that came about before Augustine was born, much less converted to Christianity.

As a time reference, 400 years ago, was about the time Galiao first pointed his telescope to the stars.

I don’t see your point…

 

[JackieO123]

So, show me where, in your Bible, I am wrong. That way, perhaps, we can both learn something new. Up for the challenge? Care to actually learn?

Thought not.

It’s implied quite a lot in the bible. In addition, you dismissed me before I even responded. You made a wild assumption on the bible. Consider this: Interpreting documents takes knowledge and time, knowing who wrote it, in what context, etcetera. You’re mistaken. If I was in your situation, I’d back out with grace and admit that I was wrong. Though even I can’t manage to do that at times, as I can be quite proud.

I also think what you said to my fellow Christians on this thread haven’t been exactly charitable. Granted, I’ve failed to be charitable at times as well. Grouping people together in clumps usually isn’t a good idea. Human beings are individuals, with different looks, thoughts, needs, and desires.

[BIBLEDRB]Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust return into its earth, from whence it was, and the spirit return to God, who gave it.[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Aloysium]

. . . Call myself Mad, because it’s true, . . .

I thought it was self-evident

The debate was live, at Park Church (first pastor: Thomas Beecher 1840’s) in Elmira, NY a few weekends ago. T’was grand.

If it ain’t on youtube, I’m not buying it

. . . Well, have a Bible with words of Christ in red, . . .

I like on-line Bibles because of my visual impairment; I can blow up the print but they’re not colour coded

. . . Jesus appears quite amazingly insightful and more than a little magical. But then, also realize, not one word was written from anyone who actually laid eyes on the man, or heard his voice. . . .

wow, that is magical!

. . . So what’s to believe?

What’s in your heart? (serious here)

 

[TimothyH]

Hi Josh.

Call myself Mad, because it’s true, but need to clarify, I am not angry.

The debate was live, at Park Church (first pastor: Thomas Beecher 1840’s) in Elmira, NY a few weekends ago. T’was grand.

Believe in Jesus? Well, have a Bible with words of Christ in red, and when reading just the red text, Jesus appears quite amazingly insightful and more than a little magical. But then, also realize, not one word was written from anyone who actually laid eyes on the man, or heard his voice.

So what’s to believe?

Matthew and John, were eyewitnesses to Jesus. They lived with the man for three years. Their writings are firsthand accounts.

-Tim-

 

[mikekle]

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul, rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28.

So when a body is killed, the soul isn’t.

But, that implies the soul CAN be destroyed…right?

 

[POJIUJH]

But, that implies the soul CAN be destroyed…right?

If read literalistically in protestant style. Clearly it poetically implies that the soul will continue living after death, even when taken without any context from Matthews Gospel.

 

[St_Redemption]

But then, also realize, not one word was written from anyone who actually laid eyes on the man, or heard his voice.

wow…

 

[Catholic13]

**Originally Posted by JackieO123
I find it funny how some atheists claim that they know our own religion better than we do. It’s a riot. **

Aren’t they all like that? The OP is a troll. He’s trying to upset everyone.

 

[TimothyH]

wow…

Says his Bible is red-letter. Forgot to read the black ones or something.

-Tim-

 

[JRKH]

**Originally Posted by JackieO123
I find it funny how some atheists claim that they know our own religion better than we do. It’s a riot. **

No they are not all like that. I’ve met several very sincere, polite and inquisitive atheists right here on CAF.

The OP is a troll. He’s trying to upset everyone.

The OP may well be a troll. I don’t know.
But my approach is this. Treat everyone as though they are sincere. Answer correctly and in Christian Charity - or do not answer at all. If the person is indeed a troll, they will soon tire and go away. If they are not a troll, then we have planted seeds, not only of good informative answers, but also more importantly good examples of Christian behavior.

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James

 

[chefmomster2]

But then, also realize, not one word was written from anyone who actually laid eyes on the man, or heard his voice.

And who exactly do you expect to have written the events down? The majority of the people at the time were illiterate. In fact, most everyone everywhere was illiterate. Therefore the lack of written material is not evidence that Biblical material is not to be trusted, in fact, the lack of such material is to be expected.

Written material does exist from the early 1st century, however when people who did actually see or hear Jesus were still present. Oral Tradition, as a method of recalling the past which has been used for ages by every culture also worked to recall the story of Christianity. Paul wrote his Letters around the years 50-59AD. Since this was barely 20 years after Christ’s resurrection there were likely very many eyewitnesses to the events who shared their stories with him. He certainly had plenty of people around to fill him in!

Much of the material ascribed to authors in the New Testament was the work of assistants to the Apostles or other unknown authors. Since some of these “authors”, such as Q, are unidentified, how do you know that the “author” had never seen or heard Christ? There is nothing to support your contention.

 

[TimothyH]

And who exactly do you expect to have written the events down? The majority of the people at the time were illiterate. In fact, most everyone everywhere was illiterate. Therefore the lack of written material is not evidence that Biblical material is not to be trusted, in fact, the lack of such material is to be expected.

Written material does exist from the early 1st century, however when people who did actually see or hear Jesus were still present. Oral Tradition, as a method of recalling the past which has been used for ages by every culture also worked to recall the story of Christianity. Paul wrote his Letters around the years 50-59AD. Since this was barely 20 years after Christ’s resurrection there were likely very many eyewitnesses to the events who shared their stories with him. He certainly had plenty of people around to fill him in!

Much of the material ascribed to authors in the New Testament was the work of assistants to the Apostles or other unknown authors. Since some of these “authors”, such as Q, are unidentified, how do you know that the “author” had never seen or heard Christ? There is nothing to support your contention.

Matthew and John were eyewitnesses. They wrote two of the four Gospels.

Q is a theory.

-Tim-

 

[josh987654321]

Hi Josh.

Call myself Mad, because it’s true, but need to clarify, I am not angry.

Okay. I assumed it was ‘Mad’ as in more than just ‘Angry’

The debate was live, at Park Church (first pastor: Thomas Beecher 1840’s) in Elmira, NY a few weekends ago. T’was grand.

May I ask who the debaters were?

Believe in Jesus? Well, have a Bible with words of Christ in red, and when reading just the red text, Jesus appears quite amazingly insightful and more than a little magical.

We don’t believe hes magical but nevertheless

May I ask, would you be willing to read the black text in the Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as well?

But then, also realize, not one word was written from anyone who actually laid eyes on the man, or heard his voice.

So what’s to believe?

May I ask, do you believe Pontius Pilate existed? (The fifth prefect of the Roman province of Judaea, from AD 26–36).

I am not a scholar, or historian of any sort, but I have read certain books from historians and scholars on the historical accuracy of the Gospels and I believe the evidence they provide for the historical accuracy of the Gospel accounts is very convincing.

If you like, I have quoted an Extract on the Historical Accuracy of the Gospels from the book “The Reason for God” by Timothy Keller. (It may seem like alot to read, but you can’t fit much in a post, so it really isn’t much reading).

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Also I really liked this article on CAF if your interest ‘The Evidence is on Our Side’

Another thing I believe is significant to consider, we are currently in the year 2014 A.D. … After Death, Whose Death? Jesus’.

Even those who deny God must date their attacks up him, A.D. (After Death) or B.C. (Before Christ).

Also Can faithless, rebellious, atheistic, unbelieving men and women possibly say that Jesus Sacrifice at the hands of His executioners was not true, so that they could unleash their rage against Him?

No one can possibly deny it and prove their denial. And why do you believe that He did so? no one dies for anyone who is not intensely loved.

I hope I have helped.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

The OP may well be a troll. I don’t know.
But my approach is this. Treat everyone as though they are sincere. Answer correctly and in Christian Charity - or do not answer at all. If the person is indeed a troll, they will soon tire and go away. If they are not a troll, then we have planted seeds, not only of good informative answers, but also more importantly good examples of Christian behavior.

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James

I agree, id rather treat 10 trolls seriously than mistakenly take one serious poster for a troll.

Thank you for reading
Josh