The Bible is Catholic -

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po18guy said:
Ouch! :ouch: Well said! Doggoned double-edged swords! I wonder whatever happened to using CHRIST as the sole rule of faith???

But, you can carry a blble with you, see? You can have that old truth right beside you everywhere you go, and everyone that reads it will come to the same exact conclusions, since that book alone is the truth, right? So, why isn’t everyone an Adventist?

But, how else could you ever have the truth with you? To do that, why, you’d have to do something crazy like eat His Body and drink His Blood! Oh, never mind…

Christ’s peace.
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Something else that many people don’t realize is that for the greater majority of Christian history, you COULDN’T carry that ol’ book of Truth around with you.
First of all, for much of the first millenium most people couldn’t read. Secondly the Bibles were hand copied, and so were extremely rare and expensive. Plus they were large and heavy. Bibles were so valuable that they were chained to the pulpit.
The faithful heard the Gospel read to them at mass, they didn’t have a bible on their table at home. Not because theChurch wanted to keep it from them, but because they couldn’t afford one, and/or they couldn’t read.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Something else that many people don’t realize is that for the greater majority of Christian history, you COULDN’T carry that ol’ book of Truth around with you.
First of all, for much of the first millenium most people couldn’t read. Secondly the Bibles were hand copied, and so were extremely rare and expensive. Plus they were large and heavy. Bibles were so valuable that they were chained to the pulpit.
The faithful heard the Gospel read to them at mass, they didn’t have a bible on their table at home. Not because theChurch wanted to keep it from them, but because they couldn’t afford one, and/or they couldn’t read.

Peace
James
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Amen! 👍 God could have sent a book from Heaven, but instead He chose to send the living bread from Heaven. Why did Jesus have to read from the Sacred Scrolls in the Temple? Since they were scripture, why would they need any interpretation, even form Christ? All scripture is crystal clear, right? Not!

Christ read from the scrolls, then gave the authoritative interpretation. To found your faith on a book, any book, is to deny the faith that existed before the book was completed. Jesus did not send bibles forth, He sent Apostles forth. Guided by the Holy Spirit.

Christ’s peace.
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
I never said that the church has never had “a problem”, in fact I conceded to the fact that there have been numerous heretical uprisings in the past. My point is that “prevail” alludes to the idea that there is no trumping the church. The fact that this verse is followed with “And I give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven …]”

This promise of victory over evil was in terms of having the apostolic authority to administer sacraments (or to put in LDS lingo) to have the “keys of the priesthood”. These keys are promised to never be trumped by hell, yet this is exactly what the most foundational of LDS premises states.
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I can understand that some would come to this conclusion. (Unlike some ideas that are so far out that I wonder if the person even read the verse), but I do not think ti is correct.

The final victory of Christ over the devil is a sure thing. I think the main point we disagree on here is whither Christ was speaking of the current earthy church or the over all timeless church.
 
teancum79 said:
The final victory of Christ over the devil is a sure thing. I think the main point we disagree on here is whither Christ was speaking of the current earthy church or the over all timeless church.
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We do not believe that the earthly Church and the “timeless” Church are two different or separate things. There is only ONE Church. It exists both in this world and in Heaven. We refer to the Church on earth as the “Church Militant” (i.e., “in service” as in military service). Departed souls under purification are the “Church Expectant” (because they WILL be admitted to Heaven), and the “Church Triumphant” (the souls of all the Saints in Heaven). But it is all one Church with Christ as its Head.
 
mercygate said:
We do not believe that the earthly Church and the “timeless” Church are two different or separate things. There is only ONE Church. It exists both in this world and in Heaven. We refer to the Church on earth as the “Church Militant” (i.e., “in service” as in military service). Departed souls under purification are the “Church Expectant” (because they WILL be admitted to Heaven), and the “Church Triumphant” (the souls of all the Saints in Heaven). But it is all one Church with Christ as its Head.
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Christ is the head of the churhc (score one agreement). In OT times the organization of people following God’s commandments came and went. I see the church Christ set up much the same way when people killed the leaders and too few followed it went away for a time and than returned.
 
teancum79 said:
Christ is the head of the churhc (score one agreement). In OT times the organization of people following God’s commandments came and went. I see the church Christ set up much the same way when people killed the leaders and too few followed it went away for a time and than returned.
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Catholics believe that the OT saints are part of the Church. Salvation history reaches back to Adam: Faith of Abraham and all that.

Nor did the people of Israel “come and go.” Nobody got lost. Not even in the diaspora.

The Church, as the Body of Christ, cannot “come and go.” He is eternal. He promised to “be with you always.”
 
so at the time just before Christ when there had not been any prophets for a long time and the people who had Christ killed where running things the church was running well?
 
teancum79 said:
so at the time just before Christ when there had not been any prophets for a long time and the people who had Christ killed where running things the church was running well?
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The “Church” (Catholic) had not yet been established, but God’s plan for salvation was indeed running along just fine.

Peace
James
 
teancum79 said:
so at the time just before Christ when there had not been any prophets for a long time and the people who had Christ killed where running things the church was running well?
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Plenty of faithful Jews were watching and waiting and living according to the Commandments. The rabbinic tradition was replete with godly witness among people like Hillel and Gamaliel. The “silence” of which you speak produced the Deuterocanonical books of Scripture and the Maccabean martyrs.

John the Baptist does not arise in a vacuum.

“Salvation is from the Jews.” They did not “come and go.”
 
po18guy said:
Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick
Christ’s peace.
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Brother, I think that perhaps you mean: ‘Bishopric!’ 🙂

Blessings and peace
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Jesus, and the angel or the holy spirit are one with GodAllahYHWH (sometimes remembered as father or Creator of human being); and they have to as they are working under scheme of life of GodAllahYHWH. The Church is not necessarily one with Jesus, or the angels called the holy spirit or GodAllahYHWH the CreatorFather. Church is run by the sinful human beings so it could have differences with Jesus. It requires concerted effort to align with Jesus on every issues separately; which I think is not there.

Let us work for the peace of the world.
Thanks
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Hi paarsurrey, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to religion. You seem to have a great deal of respect for the Blessed Mary so I thought I would attach a link called the miracles of Damascus. I have spent weeks perusing this site and was blown away by it. Maybe your views of the C.C. the bible, and their connection with Jesus will change. I respect all religions, Islamic, Buddha etc etc. Let me know what you think. BTW I am a pretty big boxing fan and I admire Muhammad Ali’s passion for his Islamic faith and consider him the greatest athlete bar none.
Here’s the link to the miracles of Damascus.
google.com/search?q=miracles+of+damascus&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Here is a link to one of the greats boxers of all time; pretty cool tribute…

youtube.com/watch?v=f7KBPRPZifM&feature=related

God bless
 
JRKH said:
Something else that many people don’t realize is that for the greater majority of Christian history, you COULDN’T carry that ol’ book of Truth around with you.
First of all, for much of the first millenium most people couldn’t read. Secondly the Bibles were hand copied, and so were extremely rare and expensive. Plus they were large and heavy. Bibles were so valuable that they were chained to the pulpit.
The faithful heard the Gospel read to them at mass, they didn’t have a bible on their table at home. Not because theChurch wanted to keep it from them, but because they couldn’t afford one, and/or they couldn’t read.

Peace
James
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Hi

Quran was memorized by peoples in thousands, so everybody could listen it if he went to a mosque on anyday. No expenses required; no need to chain it with the pulpit. Quran is for everybody rich or poor.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Where are those scrolls? Please, and the intrepretations Jesus made.

Thanks
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The actual scrolls Jesus himself read from?

I’ve come to notice that the ridiculous standard to which you hold our religion you dare not subject your own to, why is that?

Where is the very first Qu’ran that Mohammed read from?

Oh what is that? No body knows? Oh well then I guess by default that makes Islam incorrect.

Do you not see how silly this logic is?
 
mercygate said:
We do not believe that the earthly Church and the “timeless” Church are two different or separate things. There is only ONE Church. It exists both in this world and in Heaven.
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Did Jesus say this from his own mouth or it is a quotation from the anonymous scribe that Jesus said this? If it is from a scribe; then it is only his errant guesswork; not with certainty , I think.

I respect your faith

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Did Jesus say this from his own mouth or it is a quotation from the anonymous scribe that Jesus said this? If it is from a scribe; then it is only his errant guesswork; not with certainty , I think.

I respect your faith

Thanks
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This coming from someone who believes the completely undocumented novelty that Jesus spent his post-crucifixion life in India?

He said he would build “my church”. We trust Him. Not

The manuscript evidence for the consistency and validity of the New Testament gets stronger every year as new manuscript finds bring us fragments that are older and older. All are consistent. Scribes are never “anonymous”. The Scriptures were carefully copied. Variants are not significant.
 
JRKH said:
To our Protestant Brethren I offer the opportunity to explain how you feel it is possible to accept and use the Bible apart from the Church that wrote, compiled, taught, interpreted, translated, protected and defended the Holy bible 1500 years.
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Probably the same as Roman Catholics feel it’s OK to support Roman Catholic doctrines that go against the same Bible they constantly brag that God gave them.
 
teancum79 said:
so at the time just before Christ when there had not been any prophets for a long time and the people who had Christ killed where running things the church was running well?
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Hi

I don’t think it was running well. Paul was teaching what was unknown to the disciples; they called him to Jerusalem to correct him but he never obeyed them. Paul did have differences with Jesus and Mary and the disciples; I think.

I love Jesus and Mary and disciples; they are mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
 
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