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joe370
Guest
Well, I wonder what flippant comment prot. 101 will make now?
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sambos671
Guest
There is no doubt that there are many countless Protestant Denominations! As far as the Bible being a Catholic book well it depends on what you mean. The OT is Jewish the LXX is Helenized Jewish, I guess you could argue that the NT is Catholic. The bible as a whole is the word of God. But does it stop there or continue on? Well, scriptures also speak of the Holy Spirit. There is strong evidence in scripture of christian oral tradition like in the book of Jude. I think Jerome stated that there are levels to understanding the scripture. If I were Catholic I would say that the protestants are faulted because they can only scratch the surface meaning of the scripture and have limited insight for the more complicated and deeper meanings which are revealed in the Magesterium. I would say the Protestants make themselves to be their own Popes. The Protestant would say the Magesterium of the Catholic Church is an addition to the faith filled with ideas that are relevant for their time but not necisarily for the bible. The protestant would say they relied on the Holy Spirit for correct guidance.
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mercygate
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No need to deride. P-101 came to us but nobody is required to answer back.
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Lilyflower
Guest
If nothing else, visitors should be welcomed and made to feel welcome.
P 101 is merely engaging in debate. At the end of the day P101 is our brethren in Christ. We must not forget that. We learn from them, they learn from us, we learn from each other and so all progress towards the Heavenly City.
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joe370
Guest
I promise I wasn’t deriding. The simple fact is he is very glib with his responses.
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Lilyflower
Guest
If nothing else, visitors should be welcomed and made to feel welcome.I promise I wasn’t deriding. The simple fact is he is very glib with his responses.
P 101 is merely engaging in debate. At the end of the day P101 is our brethren in Christ. We must not forget that. We learn from them, they learn from us, we learn from each other and so all progress.
Blessings and peace
J
joe370
Guest
You are absolutely right.If nothing else, visitors should be welcomed and made to feel welcome.
P 101 is merely engaging in debate. At the end of the day P101 is our brethren in Christ. We must not forget that. We learn from them, they learn from us, we learn from each other and so all progress.
Blessings and peace
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Protestant101
Guest
Well; since I have posted here last, I see there has been lots of “activity.” But try as I might; there aren’t too many posts actually dealing with the subject of this thread, since I was last here. My only hope is that you will allow me to take part in helping you all to write this book. My time and energy is limited, and I haven’t said half of what I am thinking yet.
People who like to accuse me of “refusing” “ignoring” and such aren’t taking into consideration that I might have a life beyond this forum and that I being one, cannot possibly reply to the many who post things to me. I try to pick out points that I feel are important to reply to, but I won’t get to them all.
Humankind’s mental and emotional faculties have become quite depraved since the Fall; but even before the Fall, neither human reason nor experience could safely be trusted apart from or superior to God’s Word. This was the very point upon which Eve fell; trust ing her own reason and emotions over the Word of God (Gen 3:1-6). The wisest man in history (who ultimately failed to heed his own warning) perceptively observed: “There is a way that seems right to a man,but its end is the way to death” (Prov 14:12). Therefore, I believe that all Tradition, even ecclesiastical tradition, must be judged by Scripture. The principle of sola Scriptura implies two corollaries which many Catholics and even Protestants miss: a) the primacy and b) the sufficiency of Scripture.
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JRKH
Guest
Protestant101,
Yes we were having a little “off topic” fun this morning.
Also I can understand your feeling of being overwhelmed here.
So I decided to review the thread and see if I could come up with the Questions that people feel have been ignored. I’m talking about the main issues here and assertions you have made.
So these are questions posed to protestant101 that have not been answered.
May 10th, Post 131 – By JRKH
Can you trace the Bible you hold and revere in any other way?
To any other root?
To any other Church body?
May 16th, Post 352 – By joe370
So are you saying, all I need is the bible? If so, why would you say Jesus is head of the church, and—where is this church located and what name does it go by?
May 17th, Post 413 – By LilyFlower
In response to this:
Ok if you want to be pedantic, the writings were collected and compiled by ‘The Way’ which was the first name for The Church.
The ‘early’ Church and the ‘late’ Church is still ‘the Church’. What are you trying to prove or disprove?
On the subject of Antioch which Church did the Bishop belong who brought this Church back into the fold when it strayed?
Arguably of greater importance: what was his position relative to the other Bishops?
May 17th, Post 415 p By Lilyflower
If said Church did not exist until third century as some would have it and if the Real Presence is denied on the mistaken belief the early Church did not believe in it, to which Church did Pope St Sixtus belong and why did he in AD 120 declare that 'only consecrated hands were to touch the vessels that contained the Sacred Elements?
May 18th, Post 443 – By joe370
Who codified the bible?
May 18th, Post 464 – By Mercygate
in response to this:
You have stated this several times but though I have read the Bible MANY times, I don’t know the Scripture you are pointing to here. Can you give us the citation, please?
JRKH, on Post 466 was more specific:
So exactly which Book, out of the 73 written over the course of a thousand years or so, tells us that these specific 73 books belong in the Bible, and when was this particular Book written?
May 18th Post 478 By 1bkcYou keep referring to the “Protestant Canon.” How was this “Protestant Canon” determined? When was it determined? Who determined it? What was the rationale? Why were the Deuterocanonicals considered “Apocrypha”?
Maybe you could take a crack at some of these.
Sorry i couldn’t provide actual links to the posts but I tried to provide enough info to let you bone up on the context if you need to.
Peace
James
Yes we were having a little “off topic” fun this morning.
Also I can understand your feeling of being overwhelmed here.
So I decided to review the thread and see if I could come up with the Questions that people feel have been ignored. I’m talking about the main issues here and assertions you have made.
So these are questions posed to protestant101 that have not been answered.
May 10th, Post 131 – By JRKH
Can you trace the Bible you hold and revere in any other way?
To any other root?
To any other Church body?
May 16th, Post 352 – By joe370
So are you saying, all I need is the bible? If so, why would you say Jesus is head of the church, and—where is this church located and what name does it go by?
May 17th, Post 413 – By LilyFlower
In response to this:
Lily asked this:
Ok if you want to be pedantic, the writings were collected and compiled by ‘The Way’ which was the first name for The Church.
The ‘early’ Church and the ‘late’ Church is still ‘the Church’. What are you trying to prove or disprove?
On the subject of Antioch which Church did the Bishop belong who brought this Church back into the fold when it strayed?
Arguably of greater importance: what was his position relative to the other Bishops?
May 17th, Post 415 p By Lilyflower
If said Church did not exist until third century as some would have it and if the Real Presence is denied on the mistaken belief the early Church did not believe in it, to which Church did Pope St Sixtus belong and why did he in AD 120 declare that 'only consecrated hands were to touch the vessels that contained the Sacred Elements?
May 18th, Post 443 – By joe370
Who codified the bible?
May 18th, Post 464 – By Mercygate
in response to this:
mercygate asked this?
You have stated this several times but though I have read the Bible MANY times, I don’t know the Scripture you are pointing to here. Can you give us the citation, please?
JRKH, on Post 466 was more specific:
So exactly which Book, out of the 73 written over the course of a thousand years or so, tells us that these specific 73 books belong in the Bible, and when was this particular Book written?
May 18th Post 478 By 1bkcYou keep referring to the “Protestant Canon.” How was this “Protestant Canon” determined? When was it determined? Who determined it? What was the rationale? Why were the Deuterocanonicals considered “Apocrypha”?
Maybe you could take a crack at some of these.
Sorry i couldn’t provide actual links to the posts but I tried to provide enough info to let you bone up on the context if you need to.
Peace
James
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Protestant101
Guest
None; except to say that you really have me chuckling now. Do you think I didn’t know you would quickly cut and paste these from somewhere? LOL, I went through that excercise to prove a much bigger point - that it is impossible to come up with the actual denominational names of such inflated numbers being listed here for how many denominations there actually are in Protestantism.
Since you don’t seem to mind doing what I tell you to do; lets see now if you can come up with 250 denominational names!! And that’s still not even close to the wildly quoted numbers being posted on this board.
Well; now that I have gotten that out, it’s time for what you will likely call a “flippant comment,” but as far as I can see, many of what you call “Protestant Denominations” are in effect, Catholic Denominations; for they bow to Rome’s authority just about as much as you do. And, this is not to mention all the different ‘flavors’ of ‘official’ Catholic Denominations. The only reason for all the Catholic denominations is because of the ways that they dilute the Bible’s authority, and sufficiency. True Protestants are working towards the opposite goals. (IMHO)
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ibkc
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You have been asked plenty of questions which you refuse to answer. Could you at least attempt to answer some of them?
What are you calling a “Catholic Denomination”? What makes it a “denomination”?
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Protestant101
Guest
I am far from feeling ‘over-whelmed,’ it is just a physical matter of only having so much time to visit here.
The one question I will be interested most in from above is one which I have been intending to address anyways.
May 18th, Post 443 – By joe370
Who codified the bible?
But in order for me to competently discuss this; I need to answer, initially, with a question. I would like to ask that interested members in this question post their own answers to this question, using official references from Catholic writings. In particular, I would like to see if the Catholic Church Catechism would detail the answer to this question of who codified the Bible. Of course, other writings which you consider ‘inspired’ would be welcome, but the two I am most interested in would be either the Catechism or the Bible. It will likely be a few days before I get back here.
So take your time, and give me some good answers!!
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inthecloud
Guest
BTW 101. Does your Bible has chapters and verse numbers?
Who put them in the Bible?
Who put them in the Bible?
po18guy
Well-known member
Ron,
- Get baptized in the Holy Spirit.
- Listen to Catholic radio and nothing else (no TV-except EWTN, no radio, no papers)
- Spend time with Christ in Adoration
You will possess wisdom and knowledge superior to ours.
Christ’s peace.
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JRKH
Guest
I admit to some disappointment in you Mr. 101.I am far from feeling ‘over-whelmed,’ it is just a physical matter of only having so much time to visit here.
The one question I will be interested most in from above is one which I have been intending to address anyways.
But in order for me to competently discuss this; I need to answer, initially, with a question. I would like to ask that interested members in this question post their own answers to this question, using official references from Catholic writings. In particular, I would like to see if the Catholic Church Catechism would detail the answer to this question of who codified the Bible. Of course, other writings which you consider ‘inspired’ would be welcome, but the two I am most interested in would be either the Catechism or the Bible. It will likely be a few days before I get back here.
You have been quite forthcoming with declarations of the most astounding nature about the origon of the Bible and the Church in general. You have even stuck to the preposterous notion of the first church being protestant, though I am a complete loss as to what they could have been protesting.
However when proofs are asked you continually evade and don’t hide behind “lack of time”. Your number of posts belie this. You seem to have the time to posture and declare, but no time for providing proofs.
I should think that someone such as yourself, being a “history Buff” and having knowledge of the early church, and airtight proofs of the case for 66 vs 73 books should be able to quickly provide extrabiblical sources for these things without having to dig too deeply.
As to your specific request above, others will, I’m sure supply more info but for now I will tell you that information has already been provided in this thread on the Canonization of the bible.
I invite you to review Post #406 on page 28, Post #436 and Post # 445 on Page 30. That should give you a start.
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Sublime_Prince
Guest
Simple the catholics added books that were not there before.
How do we know this, because the Jews had the old testament before we did and they do not have the books in their old testament that the catholics mysteriously propped in there.
King James Bibles presever the old Jewish testament before the Catholic church decided to throw books in their that serve no purpose and were no part of the origional Torah the Jews had.
King James Bibles are by far the best , no other bible can match.
How do we know this, because the Jews had the old testament before we did and they do not have the books in their old testament that the catholics mysteriously propped in there.
King James Bibles presever the old Jewish testament before the Catholic church decided to throw books in their that serve no purpose and were no part of the origional Torah the Jews had.
King James Bibles are by far the best , no other bible can match.
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Stephen_C
Guest
As I recall the first KJV (1611 KJV) had the 7 Deutero-Canonical books included. Go figure…
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joe370
Guest
(a) I didn’t make the list of all these denominations, I simply agreed with it, and by the way, there are plenty more —and more popping up every year.
(b) I pray everyday for unity within the protestant community, and I did as a former Lutheran as well!!!
(c) You asked for proof regarding your bogus claim on the supposed “apocrypha” and I gave it to you, from the mouths of protestants; not to mention you refuse to answer a few simple questions, claiming everyone is ganging up on you, so don’t worry about it.
Protestant 101 —If you feel genuinely at peace in your heart with God, and that the Holy Spirit has guided you a long your spiritual journey and that the 7th day Adventist church is the true apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ circa 33 a.d., then God bless and good luck my friend; sorry about using the word flippant, it’s just that sometimes you seem a tad glib at times.
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Gabriel_of_12
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joe370
Guest
As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you recieved, let that one be accursed!
If I were a protestant, and I was not sure Jesus founded my church himself ? I would consider this curse from the apostle Paul himself who wrote this epistle with his own hands, Research my protestant founders history and make sure he or she preaches the same gospel Jesus gave to Paul and the apostles, and make sure I am not being swayed by every wind of doctrine.
Seek and you will find, knock and the door will opened for you
I agree with Ron, I have been impressed by the threads here, They are most informative. A reasonable mind that is serious about Jesus and Truth, Would walk away from these threads that catholics posted here, with awe, and enlightenment to keep seeking Jesus in the Catholic church. When Truth is revealed, the only thing left standing is acceptance of Truth and Pride that runs from Truth.
One more thought for the posters here; Protestant101 may have or may have not realize yet, that though we Catholics live in different areas of the World, and we have never met in our lives. How is it that we can speak and believe in the same christianity, in full agreement with one another? It proves that the Catholic church no matter how distant the Catholic may be from each other, whether geographical, national, in the present, or from the past, whether on earth or in heaven, we are all one in Jesus Christ believing and following the one true Gospel of Jesus. Catholics are in the communion of saints.
Peace be with you.
Amen brother…
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