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rpp
Guest
Mr. Ehrman’s assertions were addressed by Tomothy P. Jones. in his book, Misquoting Truth: A Guide to the Fallacies of Bart Ehrman’s "Misquoting Jesus
Available here.
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Available here.
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Booklover
Guest
Don’t hold your breath!I’m not well-versed in them. I read the book and found it very convincing. Just because Christians object does not make his criticism inaccurate. Hearing a lay Christian object to a scholar is hardly a reason for me to not refer to the book.(Unless you will stand up and tell Vickie to stop referring to jihadwatch and faithfreedom, and other posters to refrain from similar anti-islamic sites like islamicreview and answering-islam.)
Vickie
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Reuben_J
Guest
She is one of the moderators there but under different nick though she is still called Amy.
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ZuzuBailey
Guest
Still waiting for our Muslim friends to answer why “they” believe it is corrupt?
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Sister_Amy
Guest
True that.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
My answer is for you to go read that book.Still waiting for our Muslim friends to answer why “they” believe it is corrupt?
The reason Muslims beileve that the Bible is not purely the word of God, entirely revealed or inspired or preserved, but a hodgepodge of previous revelation mixed with other things… the reason Muslims believe that is:
3:77 As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter: Nor will Allah (Deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment, nor will He cleans them (of sin): They shall have a grievous penalty.
3:78 There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
5:13 But because of their [Children of Israel’s] breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
5:14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
2:91 When it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, "they say, “We believe in what was sent down to us:” yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: “Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?”
4:46 Of the Jews** there are those who displace words from their (right) places**, and say: “We hear and we disobey”; and “Hear what is not Heard”; and “Ra’ina”; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said: “What hear and we obey”; and “Do hear”; and “Do look at us”; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe.
5:41 O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say “We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee.** They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, “If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!” **If any one’s trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah’s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.
2:174 Those who conceal Allah’s revelations in the Book, and purchase for them a miserable profit,- they swallow into themselves naught but Fire; Allah will not address them on the Day of Resurrection. Nor purify them: Grievous will be their penalty.
2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:“This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
In other words, the Muslims believe it because the Qur’an says it.
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Booklover
Guest
Circular reasoning! The Quran is the word of God because Muhammad said so! Even a child can see through that one.
Vickie
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Sister_Amy
Guest
No, genius, you have to actually follow along and know the question to understand the answer.
The question: why do Muslims believe the Bible is “corrupt” (her words, not mine!)
The answer: the Qur’an says so.
I didn’t say that the Qur’an is the word of God because Muhammad said so. I said that the Qur’an says the Bible was altered, and that’s WHY Muslims believe that the BIBLE was altered. Pay attention–I don’t have time to have to repeat these things for you all the time. Jihadwatch and faithfreedom have apparently damaged your ability to think independently.
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Jedda
Guest
You believe it because the book says so?
Sister you need to do some serious searching!
Good Luck!
Sister you need to do some serious searching!
Good Luck!
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Ayayayay–did you not just read my post to Vickie above?You believe it because the book says so?
Sister you need to do some serious searching!
Good Luck!
Anyway, I’d like to welcome you to the ongoing conversation which is spanning now about 4 or 5 threads. I have given a number of proofs for belief in the Qur’an, and do not believe in the Qur’an just because it says so. Like Vickie said, that would be circular. But since I believe Muhammad is a prophet because I believe in the Qur’an, it only makes sense that I believe the Bible is not the pure word of God for the same reason.
So you must prove the Qur’an to be inaccurate. Good luck with that one.
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ralphinal
Guest
Please do not read this next post as a statement related to Islam per se.
If I started a religion, the first thing that I will teach is that all other religions started off just fine then went south. I would acknowledge things that I like then point out where they went wrong. If needed, I would make stuff up or twist the actual teachings. When confronted with the facts, I will make do by saying that they do not understand the actual teaching of their own faith or of mine.
If I started a religion, the first thing that I will teach is that all other religions started off just fine then went south. I would acknowledge things that I like then point out where they went wrong. If needed, I would make stuff up or twist the actual teachings. When confronted with the facts, I will make do by saying that they do not understand the actual teaching of their own faith or of mine.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Jeremiah 8:8
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tonnnie2008
Guest
THE bible is not corrupt. God’s word can not be corrupted! His Word is perfect. And if He can create millions of universe he can most definitley keep his word protected. He is the manager of his word no matter what you think. He kept the Bible from corruption. He is God hello he can manage his word. The enemy has you right where he wants you. If you think the bible is corrupt then u wont read it and you will stay decieved!!!
You also will have no armor when he comes for you. So read the bible and heed its warnings…Proverbs…The enemy of your soul wants you in the dark. That way you won’t see him coming.
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Booklover
Guest
No matter which way you state it, it’s the same old circular reasoning:
Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted because the Quran says the Bible is altered. :whacky: :hypno: So you have not said anything clever.
Amy, you gave up your right to independent thinking when you accepted the Islamic complete way of life which turns rational human beings into nothing more than programmed robots slavishly obeying rules all day.
Vickie
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agangbern
Guest
No, the bible, being words of God, is not corrupt. What is corrupt is some unauthorized translations of it.
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heisenburg
Guest
Just want to throw this out there…
If someone came to you, a devout catholic (or even non catholic Christian for that matter) and said why do you, as a Christian, believe the Priests in the time of Jesus were mostly corrupt, and you responded with “Because the Bible said so…” Would this answer, as a devout Christian, suffice… The question is not why should I believe the priests were corrupt, it is why do CHRISTIANS believe they were.
Like wise…
If we ask a devout Muslim why Islam believes the bible is corrupt, and they respond “Because the Quran says so” is this, for a Muslim also an answer that would suffice for them? Remember the OP question was not convince me that the bible is corrupt, it was why do Muslims believe the Bible is corrupt…
For them… it is a valid answer…
Now that being said… I do NOT believe the bible is corrupt, and I also believe that one can examine the evidence independently and see that it is not corrupt, but the point of this thread is why do MUSLIMS think it is corrupt…
If they are faith Muslims… “Because the Quran says so” is more than enough for them…
In Christ
If someone came to you, a devout catholic (or even non catholic Christian for that matter) and said why do you, as a Christian, believe the Priests in the time of Jesus were mostly corrupt, and you responded with “Because the Bible said so…” Would this answer, as a devout Christian, suffice… The question is not why should I believe the priests were corrupt, it is why do CHRISTIANS believe they were.
Like wise…
If we ask a devout Muslim why Islam believes the bible is corrupt, and they respond “Because the Quran says so” is this, for a Muslim also an answer that would suffice for them? Remember the OP question was not convince me that the bible is corrupt, it was why do Muslims believe the Bible is corrupt…
For them… it is a valid answer…
Now that being said… I do NOT believe the bible is corrupt, and I also believe that one can examine the evidence independently and see that it is not corrupt, but the point of this thread is why do MUSLIMS think it is corrupt…
If they are faith Muslims… “Because the Quran says so” is more than enough for them…
In Christ
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Booklover
Guest
By the way, why don’t you challenge Ali Sina of FFI to a debate and try to prove his allegations against Muhammad are wrong!
Vickie
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planten
Guest
Good and reasonable reply. But the topic is specially selected in words so as to make it difficult for any one to reply. It is double question too which should not be allowed. It says why do the muslims believe that bible is corrupted.
Q1. The Muslims believe that bible is corrupted.
Q2. Why the Muslims believe that bible is corrupted.
This needs many observations. First we are to understand what is the bible and where is the bible? Did Jesus leave anything written down? No.
Did Jesus dictate anything to the scribes himself? No.
So where is the bible, the actual word of god or the word of Jesus??
If there is no real book available now then the question of its corruption does not arise. The Muslims believe in Jesus that he was a true prophet of God. The christians believe that too. The Muslims believe that he was given a book (Called Injeel in Quran). Surely he was given a book.But where is that book? We should establish that first, if we can find that book. Then we will discuss that the book has been corrupted or not.
The Muslims do not believe that God had any son or he begat any one. The Muslims also do not believe that God landed himself in the world. Previously he was sending the prophets only. The belief of the muslims in all these respects is in accordance of the beliefs of the Jews, the masters of earlier, senior religion.
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agangbern
Guest
That question would bring us to tradition. The Christian tradition recognized what books and scriptures are considered parts of the bible. The new testament makes references to the books in the Old Testament. This somehow gives us an idea of what books are to be recognized as parts of the old testament. Aside from the scriptures in the New Testament, we have also the oral traditions handed down to us by the early Christians. And these oral traditions are preserved by the Church. To the Christians, it is the Church that decides which scripture is to be considered part of the bible, or is word of God. It is either we believe in the Church teachings or not at all…
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Sister_Amy
Guest
JEREMIAH 8:8
'How can you say, “We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
'How can you say, “We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
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