The Bible

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eo_chibears

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Why do so many people seem to pick and choose what Bible stories to take literally and which to not? Some Christians I know think the Noah’s ark story is absolute fact while others say it is just a story not meant to be taken literally. This is just one of many examples I can think of. Isn’t the Bible the word of God written down by man? If so, then who is anybody to decide which stories to pick and choose from?
 
The key here is make an attempt to understand, as best as can be, the intent of the author. This requires understanding various things like time-period, culture, nuances in the original language, and – very importantly – some sort of an idea as to the genre of the writing. Exegesis is not a simple matter, and unfortunately, forcing black or white interpretations may yield distortions. (I would hold this mentality has a lot to do with finding things like Calvinism in the Bible.)

As to picking and choosing, well this depends on what you mean by that. If someone were to disregard a section of Scripture simply because they don’t understand it or don’t want their views challenged by it, then such a thing is problematic. But this is not the same as viewing the story of Noah to (in some way) be more complex than only history.
 
The lovely thing about the Catholic Church is that we have a definitive guide on understanding theWord of God.

The magisterium is the living teaching office of the Catholic Church, whose task is to give as authentic an interpretation as possible of the Word of God, whether in its written form (Sacred Scripture), or in the form of Tradition. The Magisterium, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, ensures the Church’s fidelity to the teaching of the apostles in matters of faith and morals.

This is taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
eo_chibears said:
Isn’t the Bible the word of God written down by man? If so, then who is anybody to decide which stories to pick and choose from?
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Yes it is. And you are correct - since it is the word of God, none of us have the authority to definitively answer that sort of thing.

However, God gave the authority if not to decide, then at least to discern, the meaning of Scripture to His Church.

But in many cases the Church hasn’t definitively said anything (is the garden of Eden literal or not?). In these cases, some of us enjoy thinking about it and trying to figure it out for ourselves, but to do so properly requires that 1) we recognize that no matter how good our arguments seem to us, unless and until the Church adopts our position it is perfectly ok for Catholics to disagree with us, and 2) we cannot take our own theories so seriously as to think believing as we do gives some new information that is necessary for salvation or somesuch.

That is, for the most part, ideally, and among Catholics, such debating is simply an intellectual exercise and/or an attempt to bring ourselves closer to God. None of the disagreements among Catholics can be essential, because the essential things are already known and taught by the Church.
 
Iron_Donkey said:
Yes it is. And you are correct - since it is the word of God, none of us have the authority to definitively answer that sort of thing.

However, God gave the authority if not to decide, then at least to discern, the meaning of Scripture to His Church.

But in many cases the Church hasn’t definitively said anything (is the garden of Eden literal or not?). In these cases, some of us enjoy thinking about it and trying to figure it out for ourselves, but to do so properly requires that 1) we recognize that no matter how good our arguments seem to us, unless and until the Church adopts are position it is perfectly ok for Catholics to disagree with us, and 2) we cannot take our own theories so seriously as to think believing as we do gives some new information that is necessary for salvation or somesuch.

That is, for the most part, ideally, and among Catholics, such debating is simply an intellectual exercise and/or an attempt to bring ourselves closer to God. None of the disagreements among Catholics can be essential, because the essential things are already known and taught by the Church.
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Great insight and thoughts, thank you.
 
For myself…and I’ve made a long Journey from absolute believer in the very words of scripture in my teens…to a more “open” approach and Bible study I learned while a Friend. God’s Eternal Truth is not threatened by examining these stories which were handed down to us…they are “important” to us…the tell us something about ourselves…and the experiences some of encounted with the Eternal in a very specific way that was “somehow” related in a deeply symbolic language…scripture can be existentially true, without being historically true.

The writers of the different parts of Genesis were not writing “history”…they were writing myth as understood in their day and time…they were seeking to convey “something beyond” the words themselves…“Something” that resonated with them…and us…as conveying a certain Truth that cannot be told in conventional words…but deep mystical and symbolic language.

I can read the controversey’s of what book belongs where and should it be included at all…but WHAT does this book teach that we are up in arms over? Is it because our sect of Christianity determined should be included in the OT…and years later the “representatives” decided that since those books didn’t teach anything “essential to our salvation” would not be included…but to me…the question should be “Why are these books important…how do they assist in my development as a person of faith?”

I have gained a very “liberal” view of biblical composition and dates…such as “Luke” did not write “Luke” and “Matthew” did not write Matthew…while large portions of these writings may have earlier origins…redacting, “editiing”, changing, adding to all of these documents…does not change my faith in God…it enhances it…to me…doing a “miracle” at the blink of an eye is no more miraculous than God weaving together this mystical masterpiece of existence and can embrace the “Truth” of these writings without embracing it’s fading/extinct world view.

I don’t have to believe in talking snakes, donkeys, floating axe heads, parting seas, angel visitations to believe that “Something Greater” is going on here…and these ancient writings still use that “mystical language” to speak of the Eternal in a way that “speaks to my spirit”…a way of being…a way of acting…a way of living…that brings peace and contentment…and hopefully inspires me to leave this world a better place when I leave…than when I arrived.
 
I agree with Publisher. Even if the Bible isn’t literally true or historically true, it is still perfectly true. Whether one reads it as an allegory or as iron-clad fact, it is full of truth. That’s why it has lasted so long, and how it reaches so many people with so many different levels of understanding.
 
Publisher said:
For myself…and I’ve made a long Journey from absolute believer in the very words of scripture in my teens…to a more “open” approach and Bible study I learned while a Friend. God’s Eternal Truth is not threatened by examining these stories which were handed down to us…they are “important” to us…the tell us something about ourselves…and the experiences some of encounted with the Eternal in a very specific way that was “somehow” related in a deeply symbolic language…scripture can be existentially true, without being historically true.

The writers of the different parts of Genesis were not writing “history”…they were writing myth as understood in their day and time…they were seeking to convey “something beyond” the words themselves…“Something” that resonated with them…and us…as conveying a certain Truth that cannot be told in conventional words…but deep mystical and symbolic language.

I can read the controversey’s of what book belongs where and should it be included at all…but WHAT does this book teach that we are up in arms over? Is it because our sect of Christianity determined should be included in the OT…and years later the “representatives” decided that since those books didn’t teach anything “essential to our salvation” would not be included…but to me…the question should be “Why are these books important…how do they assist in my development as a person of faith?”

I have gained a very “liberal” view of biblical composition and dates…such as “Luke” did not write “Luke” and “Matthew” did not write Matthew…while large portions of these writings may have earlier origins…redacting, “editiing”, changing, adding to all of these documents…does not change my faith in God…it enhances it…to me…doing a “miracle” at the blink of an eye is no more miraculous than God weaving together this mystical masterpiece of existence and can embrace the “Truth” of these writings without embracing it’s fading/extinct world view.

I don’t have to believe in talking snakes, donkeys, floating axe heads, parting seas, angel visitations to believe that “Something Greater” is going on here…and these ancient writings still use that “mystical language” to speak of the Eternal in a way that “speaks to my spirit”…a way of being…a way of acting…a way of living…that brings peace and contentment…and hopefully inspires me to leave this world a better place when I leave…than when I arrived.
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I completely understand not believing in talking snakes, donkeys, floating axe heads, parting seas and angel visitations. What about men allowing gangs of people to rape their daughters, genocide, incest and other mayhem that takes place in the Old Testament, much of it coming at God’s direct command?
 
eo_chibears said:
I completely understand not believing in talking snakes, donkeys, floating axe heads, parting seas and angel visitations. What about men allowing gangs of people to rape their daughters, genocide, incest and other mayhem that takes place in the Old Testament, much of it coming at God’s direct command?
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I do not believe a God of love and mercy as revealed in Jesus of Nazareth would command such a thing…for me…the “lesson” to be learned in those stories are even then…EVEN THEN…people were using God and religon to “hide behind”…committing those things which were against the law of God…and saying…“God told me to take this city and kill every man woman and child…I get the virgins for myself however…and God approves of this.”…wars, strife, hate, “blind obedience” and “faith” substituting reason and humanity…it goes on now…why not then? The question to me is do we keep justifying such heinous acts as “God ordained” or do we recognize these acts of a primitive people seeking some divine sanction for their deeds.🤷
 
Publisher said:
I do not believe a God of love and mercy as revealed in Jesus of Nazareth would command such a thing…for me…the “lesson” to be learned in those stories are even then…EVEN THEN…people were using God and religon to “hide behind”…committing those things which were against the law of God…and saying…“God told me to take this city and kill every man woman and child…I get the virgins for myself however…and God approves of this.”…wars, strife, hate, “blind obedience” and “faith” substituting reason and humanity…it goes on now…why not then? The question to me is do we keep justifying such heinous acts as “God ordained” or do we recognize these acts of a primitive people seeking some divine sanction for their deeds.🤷
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My interpretation is much different than yours. I understood much of the torture, agony and death to come directly from the mouth of God. It explicitly states in the Bible that God commanded much of these actions. You are saying that he didn’t actually command it and the authors of the Old Testament only said he did to get away with their foul acts? I don’t but it for a second.
 
eo_chibears said:
My interpretation is much different than yours. I understood much of the torture, agony and death to come directly from the mouth of God. It explicitly states in the Bible that God commanded much of these actions. You are saying that he didn’t actually command it and the authors of the Old Testament only said he did to get away with their foul acts? I don’t but it for a second.
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I believe those things in the OT are records…“testimonies” of how those living at the time understood God…“our God must want us to have the land…our God wants us to kill these people…they’re pagans…they’re evil…they need to be eradicated”…of course “our God” commanded these things…and “we” were too happy to carry them out.

Did God command those things…no…did the people believe God commanded those things…of course.

That God is fully understood in Jesus of Nazareth makes sense to me…
 
Publisher said:
I believe those things in the OT are records…“testimonies” of how those living at the time understood God…“our God must want us to have the land…our God wants us to kill these people…they’re pagans…they’re evil…they need to be eradicated”…of course “our God” commanded these things…and “we” were too happy to carry them out.

Did God command those things…no…did the people believe God commanded those things…of course.

That God is fully understood in Jesus of Nazareth makes sense to me…
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I don’t know much about the Quakers. You have an interesting view on the OT though. Thanks for sharing.
 
The approach that says that many of the books and stories of the Bible are fiction, is a modern approach. I don’t like that approach. I prefer the more traditional approach that the biggest part of Christian and Jewish history takes, and that is Jonah wrote the book of Jonah, and it really happened. Daniel wrote Daniel, and it really happened. Noah and the Ark really happened. Adam and Eve and the serpent really happened, etc, etc. I will stand with the majority of Christians of the last 2000 years.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
The approach that says that many of the books and stories of the Bible are fiction, is a modern approach. I don’t like that approach. I prefer the more traditional approach that the biggest part of Christian and Jewish history takes, and that is Jonah wrote the book of Jonah, and it really happened. Daniel wrote Daniel, and it really happened. Noah and the Ark really happened. Adam and Eve and the serpent really happened, etc, etc. I will stand with the majority of Christians of the last 2000 years.
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So you believe that God commanded rape and genocide? (I can provide exact versus from the Bible).
 
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