The Big Bang Argument for God

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For any number of time intervals you give me in a given time interval, I can give you one more than your original number. So, in the real world, there is no finite number of time intervals in a given time interval.
You can have a potential infinite, but not actual infinite. One more than the original is not an infinite set. If there was an actual infinite between time intervals then we would never reach the time interval. Imagine if you could live forever. Well, such an existence would entail a life that never ends. It would be meaningless to talk about having reached an actual infinite amount of time, since you could always exist longer than what you presently have existed for. Thus, achieving an actual infinite would be impossible. Yet, that is what you would be asking us to believe by positing an eternal universe, that somehow an actual infinite amount of time has been reached and we are now at infinite plus time. We can speak about a potential infinite future, but we can not have of an actual infinite past.
 
The past does not have a starting point, except for one that you choose it to be. You can start from that point of your choice, but you have to realize that before your chosen starting point, there was a preceding point. For any starting point that you give me, I can always find one which precedes your point.
You’ll have to explain to me how we could choose our starting point. Did you choose to be born on a certain day? I’m trying to show that if the past has no starting point then there’s no way for time to actually happen. There’s no way to get to the present if the past is always regressing. It’s like runners ready to begin a race but noticing that every time they get closer to the starting line, it’s farther away.

On your idea of an infinite past, in order for this present point to arrive, the event before it has to arrive, and before that event arrives, the event before that has to arrive, and on and on to infinity. The present point could never arrive (this is absurd!) because it would have to traverse an infinite number of points to get to today.

But even if infinity was somehow traversed and we arrived at today, why didn’t this point in time arrive yesterday or the day before, since an infinite number of points has already occurred in the infinite past before they reached yesterday or the day before? Moreover, why didn’t today occur tomorrow or 7,000 years from now? In both cases the same amount of points has elapsed before they reached tomorrow or 7,000 years from now–namely infinite. This is absurd though, thus a beginning-less past cannot exist.
 
Thus, achieving an actual infinite would be impossible. Yet, that is what you would be asking us to believe by positing an eternal universe, that somehow an actual infinite amount of time has been reached and we are now at infinite plus time. We can speak about a potential infinite future, but we can not have of an actual infinite past.
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Exactly
 
I like your argument for the existence of God. The universe could have not created itself. The Bible also suggests that the Big Bang theory is true.
 
Paul Steinhardt claims to have shown the possibility of the cyclic theory of the universe, according to which the expansion and contraction cycles repeat infinitely into the past and future.
science.sciencemag.org/content/296/5572/1436
arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0111030v2
The cyclic theory of the universe sounds fascinating. This idea presupposes (from what I gather) that there is an end to the universe (physical end). What would happen when we reach the end? When does something end and nothing begin? When the border begins, can I stick my hand out into the nothing? Fascinating.
 
The premise of the OP is backward. The big bang does not point to a non-material Creator - rather, the Creator points to the big bang.

For those few who may not be aware, the ‘Big Bang’ was developed by astrophysicist Fr. Georges Lemaitre, SJ.

As to the expansion of the universe, William Thomson postulated in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics that the universe will end with a “heat death.” Compare this with the prophecy of a Galilean fisherman 2,000 years ago (2 Peter 3:11-13).
 
So you’re challenging premise 2. You don’t believe the universe began to exist, but rather believe that the universe undergoes an infinite series of expansion and contraction. To explain to others who might not know, on this view the universe expands with a big bang and then eventually collapses in on itself with a “big crunch.” Some speculate that after the big crunch, the universe might expand again in another big bang. Thus, we have an infinite cycle of universes, it goes on forever. Do you have any good reasons to believe in such a model? I think there are, however, good reasons to doubt the legitimacy of the cyclic model.

The cyclic model only succeeds if the density of all the matter in the entire universe is greater than what scientists call “critical density.” Critical density is the value at which the universe is at balance, and expansion is stopped. If the density of matter in the universe is greater than the critical density, then gravity will overpower matter and pull it back in, thus initiating the big crunch process. But if the density of the universe’s matter can’t succeed critical density, then the gravity is not strong enough to pull the matter back in and initiate a big crunch, and so the universe just expands forever.

However, most cosmologists think a big crunch very unlikely, given that most of the matter in the universe is “dark matter,” which has enough mass and gravitational force to keep the universe expanding forever. The truth is, the current evidence we have doesn’t show that there will ever be a big crunch. For instance, the most recent evidence of space expansion shows that the universe isn’t being slowed down by gravity, but rather is accelerating.

But even if the universe could contract and expand again, this does not show that it could have contracted and expanded forever. This is because whenever the universe would collapse and experience a big crunch, there would be an intense build up of disorder (entropy) that would carry over into the new expanding universe. This build up of entropy would have the effect of creating larger and longer big bang expansions each successive cycle. The physicist Duane Dicus explains this by showing that entropy will only “enlarge the cosmic scale from cycle to cycle” which means if we look backwards in time, we’ll notice that each earlier cycle “generates less entropy,” thus showing it would have a smaller cycle time and cycle expansion. This means as one traces the cycles back in time, each expansion becomes smaller and smaller until you come to the one that is infinitely small (or zero). This would be the beginning of the universe.

In fact Stephen Hawking even says on his own website that this entropy build up disproves the cyclic model: “One would expect that the universe would become more disordered each oscillation. It is therefore difficult to see how the universe could have been oscillating for an infinite time.” Furthermore, Hawking’s formulation of singularity theorems with Roger Penrose imply an absolute beginning to the universe. To quote Hawking one more time from, The Nature of Space and Time, singularity theorems “led to the abandonment of attempts (mainly by the Russians) to argue that there was a previous contracting phase and a non-singular bounce into expansion. Instead almost everyone now believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the big bang.”
Amazing Post. Thanks:thumbsup:
 
You’ll have to explain to me how we could choose our starting point. Did you choose to be born on a certain day? I’m trying to show that if the past has no starting point then there’s no way for time to actually happen. There’s no way to get to the present if the past is always regressing. It’s like runners ready to begin a race but noticing that every time they get closer to the starting line, it’s farther away.

On your idea of an infinite past, in order for this present point to arrive, the event before it has to arrive, and before that event arrives, the event before that has to arrive, and on and on to infinity. The present point could never arrive (this is absurd!) because it would have to traverse an infinite number of points to get to today.

But even if infinity was somehow traversed and we arrived at today, why didn’t this point in time arrive yesterday or the day before, since an infinite number of points has already occurred in the infinite past before they reached yesterday or the day before? Moreover, why didn’t today occur tomorrow or 7,000 years from now? In both cases the same amount of points has elapsed before they reached tomorrow or 7,000 years from now–namely infinite. This is absurd though, thus a beginning-less past cannot exist.
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Exactly. An infinite past plus what exactly? Why would there be anything but an actually infinite number of events? And how many numbers need to occur before you actually have an infinite an can transverse it? Infinite plus 1 finite event? How many events is it made of? Its Meaningless.
 
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