The Big Picture

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So as I understand it, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit strange?
 
cerad said:
So as I understand it, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit strange?
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That’s a good one. I am not an Apologist by any stretch, but I would say right off that you missed the one important part of the equation: That God was in the form of a human when He was “sacrificed”. God can not die, so it was the human Jesus who died on the Cross. And He wasn’t saving us FROM Him, He was really saving us from “death” and for eternal life WITH Him.

Nice try though.
 
cerad said:
So as I understand it, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit strange?
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Well, I’d say that you got everything right except for, well…everything. Your life must be truely blissful. Continue on your current road and the last words that you will scream before being cast forever into the pit will be, “Oh My God, Those silly Catholics were right”!

I do pray that you will see the truth before it is too late. May God be allowed to enter your heart and soul, and May you allow Him to Move You!

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!
 
chaunceygardner said:
That’s a good one. I am not an Apologist by any stretch, but I would say right off that you missed the one important part of the equation: That God was in the form of a human when He was “sacrificed”. God can not die, so it was the human Jesus who died on the Cross. And He wasn’t saving us FROM Him, He was really saving us from “death” and for eternal life WITH Him.

Nice try though.
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So Jesus wasn’t 100% God? Just another human with special powers?
 
cerad said:
So Jesus wasn’t 100% God? Just another human with special powers?
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Not quite…but for the record, how many humans do you know with special powers? I can think of some miraculous things performed by people, but that is solely the Will and Power of God acting through them–they are the conduits for His miracles.

And It’s kind of like the ‘a square is a rectangle’ kinda thing–Jesus was God, is God, and always will be God. But He humbled Himself to become a man, creating a dual nature that was both wholly human and wholly Divine. That’s very important because He wasn’t like a Greek demigod (i.e. Hercules, Achilles, etc) from mythology–He really was a man while fully retaining His divine nature.

When Christ offered Himself up to die on the cross, He broke the bonds and allowed the souls to enter into Heaven–His death gave eternal life to the whole world. The problem is, not everyone wants to accept it.
 
cerad said:
So as I understand it, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit strange?
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Totally strange. Which strongly suggests that it is not a very good summary of what actually happened, and why.

Do you have any other summaries you’d like to offer for discussion?
 
An entire universe of splendors and wonders ranging from giant planets to the tiniest emotions felt by every single human being forming out of nothing with no Creator seems even stranger if you ask me.
 
cerad said:
So as I understand it, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit strange?
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**
God follows His own rules.** He said the penalty for sin is death (Hell - eternity away from Him) and He gave His own Son (yes Himself - I don’t claim to understand the mystery of the Trinity) to take that penalty. We have the choice to accept the fact that He took the penalty or we can take the penalty for ourselves. Personally, I want to spend eternity with the Creator so I’ve chosen to accept his gift.
**
Mercy Mia** - I agree!
 
Mumbles140 said:
Not quite…but for the record, how many humans do you know with special powers? I can think of some miraculous things performed by people, but that is solely the Will and Power of God acting through them–they are the conduits for His miracles.

And It’s kind of like the ‘a square is a rectangle’ kinda thing–Jesus was God, is God, and always will be God. But He humbled Himself to become a man, creating a dual nature that was both wholly human and wholly Divine. That’s very important because He wasn’t like a Greek demigod (i.e. Hercules, Achilles, etc) from mythology–He really was a man while fully retaining His divine nature.

When Christ offered Himself up to die on the cross, He broke the bonds and allowed the souls to enter into Heaven–His death gave eternal life to the whole world. The problem is, not everyone wants to accept it.
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And this makes sense to you? Look, Jesus was either a god or not a god and he either died or he didn’t die. You really can’t have it both ways. And why exactly did he have to die (only he really didn’t die though he actually did) in order to break the bonds that he created in the first place?
 
Can’t have it both ways? This isn’t having your cake and eating it too. It may be difficult to comprehend, and I could even leave it up to the sacred mysteries that will be revealed to the souls in Heaven, but really, it’s not that difficult to grasp.

The fact is that Jesus is God and was man without losing His divinity. He subjected Himeslf to the body, including all the pain and suffering, of men, for the sake of dying on a cross. It needed to be Jesus, the only man who had the power to conquer death.
 
Mumbles140 said:
Can’t have it both ways? This isn’t having your cake and eating it too. It may be difficult to comprehend, and I could even leave it up to the sacred mysteries that will be revealed to the souls in Heaven, but really, it’s not that difficult to grasp.

The fact is that Jesus is God and was man without losing His divinity. He subjected Himeslf to the body, including all the pain and suffering, of men, for the sake of dying on a cross. It needed to be Jesus, the only man who had the power to conquer death.
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Not really talking about cake but how can something be difficult to comprehend but not difficult to grasp?

It really seems simple:
  1. Jesus is God.
  2. God can’t die
  3. Jesus died
Clearly something does not make sense unless one of the above assertions is wrong.
 
cerad said:
So as I understand it, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save us from himself. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit strange?
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Yes, yes indeed, your understanding does sound very strange. Thankfully my understanding makes more sense but I pray for all unbelievers so that they learn to understand. When or if you become to understand the truth you will then be able to understand how strange your current understanding truly is.

Peace!👍
 
cerad said:
Not really talking about cake but how can something be difficult to comprehend but not difficult to grasp?

It really seems simple:
  1. Jesus is God.
  2. God can’t die
  3. Jesus died
Clearly something does not make sense unless one of the above assertions is wrong.
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Jesus went to Hell - spiritual death. Jesus also stopped breathing - physical death. Jesus was RESURRECTED - return to the presence of God the Father and started breathing again (although not in that order).

I say again - You can accept that Jesus took the penalty of hell for you or you can go to hell for yourself. It is that simple.

Faith is trusting in something even though you don’t understand everything about it. Belief in the Creator requires faith.
 
Was listening to this Black Sabbath song today:

“After Forever”

Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you’re dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he’s a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I’ve seen the light and I’ve changed my ways
And I’ll be prepared when you’re lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you’re afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don’t believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can’t retrieve

Perhaps you’ll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he’s the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it’s too late.
 
That’s very good.

I can tell you, as a hospice nurse, there is something out there. For some the end is nice, but for some it’s pretty frightening. The ones who have problems do not trust God or, at times accept their fate; at least the ones I know about do not indicate this.

We must trust that God is our true Father who cares for us.

I do understand the confusion given the evil we deal with. I think God is found internally, not externally. I think our OP is looking in the wrong direction.
 
Ceil-1 said:
That’s very good.

I can tell you, as a hospice nurse, there is something out there. For some the end is nice, but for some it’s pretty frightening. The ones who have problems do not trust God or, at times accept their fate; at least the ones I know about do not indicate this.

We must trust that God is our true Father who cares for us.

I do understand the confusion given the evil we deal with. I think God is found internally, not externally. I think our OP is looking in the wrong direction.
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Yes, I think you’ve got it. Great response. I appreciate how you weave your own experiences and observations into your faith and understanding of God. That is exactly what Jesus wants us to do.

I bet you are a great nurse.
 
cerad said:
Not really talking about cake but how can something be difficult to comprehend but not difficult to grasp?

It really seems simple:
  1. Jesus is God.
  2. God can’t die
  3. Jesus died
Clearly something does not make sense unless one of the above assertions is wrong.
Click to expand...
#2 is wrong, since upon becoming Incarnate God could die. God, in the Divine Person of Jesus Christ, took on a nature that allowed for death.

Now keep in mind that you need to be very careful as to what you mean by “die”.
 
cerad said:
So eventually we become God? Sounds Mormon-ish to me.
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With Mormons it’s more like we become gods. A more accurate Christian view (from scripture) is that we partake in the divine nature of God. In some sense, we enter into the Trinity, into the Godhead.
 
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