The Bishops and Music

[Strummer]

The only people that I ever heard describe chant as being hard are musicians. Chant uses a different notation than modern music. The beat count between measures in chant is actually a variable, and that drives musicians batty. But that very fact is what makes chant so suitable for singing.

That’s because musicians know what it takes to make it truly sound good. It is not a matter of notation, that can be learned. Same, too, for pronounciations. It is a matter of breath control and vocal support and intonation. I’m not saying chant is unreachably difficult but it is at least a magnitude or two above “Holy, Holy, Holy”. And, as has been mentioned already, polyphony is another magnitude or two above that.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Where? I never saw that document you posted. I’ve been to many parishes in my diocese, and none of them use these chants. I would like to hear this (and sing it), but none of the parishes in my neighbourhood have this. NewUlm claims that Gregorian chant is not going away, but in my diocese, it has been long gone. My first memories of Mass were in the early 1970’s, and I have never heard chant even back then.

Then it is a diocese and or parish decision local to your area. It is probably due to local parish traditions more than anything as they just choose not to offer it for various reasons. The apparent absence of it in one local area in the present does not mean it is gone in the US much less worldwide.

You could contact the local diocese office and ask if it is used in any parish in the diocese you are not aware of, odds are some parish is using it in some form.

 

[Brendan]

Then it is a diocese and or parish decision local to your area. It is probably due to local parish traditions more than anything as they just choose not to offer it for various reasons. The apparent absence of it in one local area in the present does not mean it is gone in the US much less worldwide.

A local bishop might have made a decision to ignore it, but 2 of the 3 post Vatican II pontifs have requested that the faithful learn these chants ( and I don’t think Pope Benedict is far behind them in that either)

Note also that both Pontiff refered to Sacrosanctum Concillium #54 , in that the faithful are to know their responses in Latin.

 

[lak611]

Then it is a diocese and or parish decision local to your area. It is probably due to local parish traditions more than anything as they just choose not to offer it for various reasons. The apparent absence of it in one local area in the present does not mean it is gone in the US much less worldwide.

You could contact the local diocese office and ask if it is used in any parish in the diocese you are not aware of, odds are some parish is using it in some form.

You mentioned local parish traditions in the area. I was thinking that perhaps there was a very liberal bishop in my diocese in the 1960’s-1970’s, who got rid of chant, and it just hasn’t come back. Is there any way I could find out more about what the policies of the bishop we had back then were like? I know they are both deceased now. I believe they were Bishop Issenmann and Bishop Hickey.

 

[Brendan]

That’s because musicians know what it takes to make it truly sound good. It is not a matter of notation, that can be learned. Same, too, for pronounciations. It is a matter of breath control and vocal support and intonation. I’m not saying chant is unreachably difficult but it is at least a magnitude or two above “Holy, Holy, Holy”. And, as has been mentioned already, polyphony is another magnitude or two above that.

We are not taking about what the Cantor can sign well, that’s not the point, a good Cantor could sing a Mozart “Te Deum”. But try teaching that to a congregation.

What we are talking about here is what the people can sign. And chant is certainly easier to sing congregationally than your average Haugen song.

It was developed over millenia to specifically be so.

 

[lak611]

A local bishop might have made a decision to ignore it, but 2 of the 3 post Vatican II pontifs have requested that the faithful learn these chants ( and I don’t think Pope Benedict is far behind them in that either)

Note also that both Pontiff refered to Sacrosanctum Concillium #54 , in that the faithful are to know their responses in Latin.

Do you know how I could find out about the policies of the late bishops who were in charge of my diocese back in the 1960’s-1970’s?

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

You mentioned local parish traditions in the area. I was thinking that perhaps there was a very liberal bishop in my diocese in the 1960’s-1970’s, who got rid of chant, and it just hasn’t come back. Is there any way I could find out more about what the policies of the bishop we had back then were like? I know they are both deceased now. I believe they were Bishop Issenmann and Bishop Hickey.

Well, the best way is to go to the Diocese archive and probably read their pastoral letters in the Diocese newspaper. That is the best way to get to know a bishop.

In the end it really does not matter why it happened in the past, it can be gently encouraged to be worked in with present music standards to blend nicely because the final decision is with the local parish. It can be done easily as you flow from one genre to another. You could start at your home parish by bringing a few good hymns which would start to be used first in appropriate seasons (e.g. Lent). Then the parish can slowly work it in elsewhere depending on the time of year. It can be done if you approach it without an imposing tone, most music ministers are willing to work something out.

 

[lak611]

Well, the best way is to go to the Diocese archive and probably read their pastoral letters in the Diocese newspaper. That is the best way to get to know a bishop.

In the end it really does not matter why it happened in the past, it can be gently encouraged to be worked in with present music standards to blend nicely because the final decision is with the local parish. It can be done easily as you flow from one genre to another. You could start at your home parish by bringing a few good hymns which would start to be used first in appropriate seasons (e.g. Lent). Then the parish can slowly work it in elsewhere depending on the time of year. It can be done if you approach it without an imposing tone, most music ministers are willing to work something out.

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[Strummer]

What we are talking about here is what the people can sign. And chant is certainly easier to sing congregationally than your average Haugen song.

It was developed over millenia to specifically be so.

I’m not sure that’s quite accurate. It *was *developed over a millenium *ago *but it did not substantially evolve over thousands of years as you have indicated. Furthermore, I’ve never heard it positted that chant was designed specifically for ease of singing. I’m not necessarily arguing this point but would be interested to know your source(s).
And finally, your “average Haugen song” is quite simple to sing and uses musical conventions we in the modern world are quite familiar with. Sure, there’s some interesting twists and turns of chord structure and/or melody here and there, but they’re easy enough to learn. And, wasn’t that the premise put forward in support of chant? The Haugen songs have an added benefit that the music and lyrics tend to linger longer in the hearts and minds of the average parishoners than latin chant would. There are, of course exceptions, but just because one associates with a disproportionate crowd of chant-lovers doesn’t mean that such is the norm.

(Hurrying off to the store now to purchase the T-day fixin’s. Sorry if the above lacks clarity but I’ve no time to review and edit.)

 

[Brendan]

I’m not sure that’s quite accurate. It *was *developed over a millenium *ago *but it did not substantially evolve over thousands of years as you have indicated.

Chant was part of the liturgical tradition of the Jews, the reason both the East and Western Churches have such similar chant is we got it from the same source… Judaism. Tones similar to these are what Christ would have chanted the Psalms in

.
maternalheart.org/library/chant_history.htm

For the chant used in the Mass today is a child of the chant that Christ would have heard in the Temple and synagogues. The early Christians neither composed commissions to revise the liturgy, nor commissioned composers to recast the chant. They brought to the Christian liturgy the prayers and chant of the Jewish liturgy, and the style of music changed little during Christianity’s catacomb years. Etheria, a Spanish nun on pilgrimage to the holy places in about 385, mentions hymns, psalms, responsories and antiphons as part of the Easter liturgy at Jerusalem, the first three being forms familiar from Jewish liturgy.